Panoz Cars

[FxrAndy]

I have never been a fan of BMWs but that car above is coooool. Nice quite looking!

[rkdk]

Very nice notch, you deserve every last compliment you get for that! I can't tell if it's a windsor under there or not...whatcha got in there?

I actually dont know wether its a windsor, or cleveland. Only the block is original,and all the rest is new stuff.

The guy i bought it from claimed 360 bhp, but it seems kinda unlikely from a smallblock. Id say around 270 maybe. Still does outperfrom anything else on the road, but it really light, so thats a main factor. Gonna build in a manual box this year, since the c4 steals quite a bit of power. Cant wait to drive that engine with a manual . Restomod all the way.

Im actually considering a 850i. Its the closest to the m1, and my old 735i is kinda beginning to bore me a bit, even though its the best driving car ive ever owned.

And that 635. So beautiful. Bmws are just so good cars.

[rkdk]

A classic Ford fan. Nice to meet you. Mine is just a standard 289V8 nuts and bolts resto (OK OK I'll stop with the "Car Forum" pics, I know it's a Watch forum )

What a beauty. Classic convertible, and it doesnt get better. Looks like you have a very clean car.

[jkarpas]

Nice E36 M3! I had an affliction with one for a while. See my old '95 M332 (sold about a year and a half ago):

The truly afflicted have probably already noticed the rather conspicuous intercooler occupying the front bumper and lower kidneys:

That's because it had one of these:

567whp, 579wtq (93 octane pump fuel, no meth, WI, etc. Hot run in a hotter dyno room). God, having such a sleeper was dirty, naughty fun. 60-130mph in 9 seconds flat (on a 60mph punch, not a full run up from 40). Nobody knew. I even had 318 badges on the back for a while, just for laughs. That car was not for the weak hearted. Never has a car of mine garnered such polarized reactions from passengers. It certainly wasn't a car that people would say "eh, it was fine" after having a ride. Red-faced excitement, or white-faced fear were usually the two options that passengers chose from.

And in regards to the Lotus...silly Xyphis, we all know that there isn't just one thing to fix on a Lotus in one season! There's always a fun new gremlin to chase! And you have a sublime 'stang, looks like you really did it up proper on the resto, based on what I see in the .gif!

you are one crazy man! i own a e36 coupe too but the humble 318is... i just had a lsd 3.45 25% and soon i am going to supercharge it...

the m3 is my holy grail, i love the e36 but my all time favourite is the e30 m3, full of bulging muscle and brutality

[Guest watchbuff]

One of my favourite toipics or is it favorite Ms Barrett? Here is my 01 M3. Sorry it was an Auto, no mods. But the Seca blue was a head turner and the interior had seca blue trim and bolsters. I miss it

Back in the day (Navy days) I had a corvette (POS) and toyed around with a Delorean (Vin 5582) And of course still have the 97 Ducati 916/996

Now

I have an 07 335

Memories:

[UB7]

Defacto - your car sounds violently fast jesus!!

Watchbuff - The e46 is my dream car, and now that the new m3's are coming out hopefully they will drop in price and I will finnaly get 1! And god damn, seca blue is my favorite color too! You should have sold it to me you lucky bastard im jelous..But than again everyone in Long Island drives BMW's/Lexus/Audi/Cadilac's..Some kid in my old dorm @ hofstra drove his dads purple lambo to class - These kinds of things happen all the time in strong island...Thinking about getting a CTS-V if i cant find a decent priced e46 - has the corvette z06 engine in it...400hp...Test drove 1 and it hauled ass

Edited November 10, 2007 by UB7

[Victoria]

One of my favourite toipics or is it favorite Ms Barrett?

I'm lapping this thread up, WB! For once, I have NO CLUE what anyone is saying, nor can I add a dissertation on the history of Ducati.

More more more guys!

(I can't believe Euno isn't all over this thread. I'm thinking of PMing him)

[Desuetude]

I have never been a fan of BMWs but that car above is coooool. Nice quite looking!

Thanks very much! Nobody really thought much of it...till they couldn't see it anymore!

I actually dont know wether its a windsor, or cleveland. Only the block is original,and all the rest is new stuff.

The guy i bought it from claimed 360 bhp, but it seems kinda unlikely from a smallblock. Id say around 270 maybe. Still does outperfrom anything else on the road, but it really light, so thats a main factor. Gonna build in a manual box this year, since the c4 steals quite a bit of power. Cant wait to drive that engine with a manual . Restomod all the way.

Im actually considering a 850i. Its the closest to the m1, and my old 735i is kinda beginning to bore me a bit, even though its the best driving car ive ever owned.

And that 635. So beautiful. Bmws are just so good cars.

Well there's always the dyno, or the dragstrip. The 'strip really doesn't lie when it comes to finding out a car's real power (trap speed). I don't think that it's at all unreasonable to have 360hp from a 351. If everything is in order, you have a good cam, mani, carb, headers, heads, etc, and have some pistons with decent compression, you definitely could have that much power.

Also, FYI, the M635CSi (M6 in the US, which is what I have) or the E28 M5 (ROW) are the closest to the M1. The motor in the M1 is called the M88-1. The motor in the M635CSi/E28 M5 (ROW) is called the M88-3. The motor in the US M6 and M5 is called the S38. They are all pretty much the same motor. The M88s are that much more similar, they both have single row timing chains, etc. The only differences between the two motors is in the compression, mech vs. EFI, etc. Just saying if you want the closest thing to a M1, then you get an M635CSi.

you are one crazy man! i own a e36 coupe too but the humble 318is... i just had a lsd 3.45 25% and soon i am going to supercharge it...

the m3 is my holy grail, i love the e36 but my all time favourite is the e30 m3, full of bulging muscle and brutality

Heh, I like to think I've calmed down. Then I realize that I'm looking for 997TTs. And yes, E30M3s are awesome, once they have that boat anchor S14 out!

Honestly, I'd recommend doing a swap with an S52/S50 instead, it makes better power, is a better platform for further mods, etc. Just my .02

One of my favourite toipics or is it favorite Ms Barrett? Here is my 01 M3. Sorry it was an Auto, no mods. But the Seca blue was a head turner and the interior had seca blue trim and bolsters. I miss it

Back in the day (Navy days) I had a corvette (POS) and toyed around with a Delorean (Vin 5582) And of course still have the 97 Ducati 916/996

Now

I have an 07 335

Memories:

LSB is awesome. Definitely my fav. E46 color. I'd love to have a Duck myself, I've just never learned how to ride, and have always been afraid of doing so, which is probably why I've always wanted cars that are as fast/outrun bikes. The only bikes that I couldn't outrun in my M3 when I had race gas and meth were modern 900cc+ japanese bikes. I would love to learn though.

The 335 is an awesome car. Good buddy of mine has one with all the bolt ons, software, etc. Puts down about 340ish whp, very, very fun car! It's definitely a great machine!

Defacto - your car sounds violently fast jesus!!

Watchbuff - The e46 is my dream car, and now that the new m3's are coming out hopefully they will drop in price and I will finnaly get 1! And god damn, seca blue is my favorite color too! You should have sold it to me you lucky bastard im jelous..But than again everyone in Long Island drives BMW's/Lexus/Audi/Cadilac's..Some kid in my old dorm @ hofstra drove his dads purple lambo to class - These kinds of things happen all the time in strong island...Thinking about getting a CTS-V if i cant find a decent priced e46 - has the corvette z06 engine in it...400hp...Test drove 1 and it hauled ass

It certainly wasn't slow!

[professor_yaffle1]

The only bikes that I couldn't outrun in my M3 when I had race gas and meth were modern 900cc+ japanese bikes. I would love to learn though.

You mean like this one?

Actually, I sold that one, and now ride a 954 Blade, but couldn't find a pic of it. Both plenty quick, although the TL would try to pull your arms out above 120mph, incredible acceleration at that point

Your M6 rocks! They've always jostled for position with the E30 M3 as my all-time favourite BM's.

Is that a 2.7S tucked away in the corner of your garage?

Oh, yes, and as for Panoz, their road cars aren't that great, but the LMP at Le Mans in 03 had the most unbelievable engine note that I've ever heard! Standing at Arnage (at 3am naturally) listening to it approach it sounded as if the heavens were being ripped apart and the horsemen were coming.........the fact that Bentley won was fantastic, but the memory of that insane noise is still in my head

[Desuetude]

You mean like this one?

Actually, I sold that one, and now ride a 954 Blade, but couldn't find a pic of it. Both plenty quick, although the TL would try to pull your arms out above 120mph, incredible acceleration at that point

Your M6 rocks! They've always jostled for position with the E30 M3 as my all-time favourite BM's.

Is that a 2.7S tucked away in the corner of your garage?

Oh, yes, and as for Panoz, their road cars aren't that great, but the LMP at Le Mans in 03 had the most unbelievable engine note that I've ever heard! Standing at Arnage (at 3am naturally) listening to it approach it sounded as if the heavens were being ripped apart and the horsemen were coming.........the fact that Bentley won was fantastic, but the memory of that insane noise is still in my head

Your TL-1000 is SWEET! As far as beating my old car, I dunno buddy, it would have definitely been an interesting run! Certainly one that I wouldn't put a bet on! However, I was always neck and neck with a buddy's '04 RC-51 from 50-150 in 5 run matches, which I think would be a pretty fair comparison to a TL-1000. Again, whenever I was doing these runs, I was running C-16, meth, and 26 psi, so we're definitely not talking the same amount power that I disclosed above. Twins are simply a whole different measuring stick than Japanese 4-banger bikes. Very sweet bike nonetheless, and definitely something that will lay waste to 99.9% of cars on the road! I have a feeling the 954 would probably beat my old car, however.

*EDIT* Now that I think about it, I never actually ran any 900cc 4-banger bikes. I ran against a few GSXR-750s, then it was GSXR-1000s, R1s, ZX-10s, etc (600s were the most common, and always wanted a piece, but they were always in for an ego bruising). The liter bikes would definitely pull a solid 2-4 cars on me to 150, but it wasn't a total blowout. Then there have been the few ZX-14s and 'Busas that I ran against, because I'm a silly glutton for punishment. In 2 cases, they were modified as well. I really just wanted to see how badly they could beat me

Thanks for the compliments on the M6! I do agree about it being one of the all time best BMWs, and yes, the E30 M3 is definitely up there! If only it had some more power The fact that my good friend got smoked by a Honda Odyssey in his E30 M3 (under 30k original miles, he's selling it now because he just got a 997 GT3 *drool*) definitely reinforced the idea in my mind that all E30 M3s need motor transplants, or heavily built motors at the very least!

Good eye! It's actually a '73 911E 2.4 (last year before they mucked it up with DOT-reg bumpers). It's a PCA-concours winning resto that my late-Grandfather and I did when I was in HS. One of the fondest memories I have of my pre-college years. I still have that car, and I wouldn't sell it for all of King Midas's gold. Here are some pics of the car itself, taken in mid '04:

I should probably stop showing cars now, I'm really starting to look like a junkie

[ratchpot]

Historically, have the US M3s always (or ever) been lower specced than the European M3s?

[Desuetude]

Historically, have the US M3s always (or ever) been lower specced than the European M3s?

For the most part, that is a yes. The E30 M3 (1987-1991) was arguably the most similar to it's European counterpart. The only differences were that we didn't get the Evolution versions that the lucky Europeans got. Nor did we get the M3 Cabriolet.

The E36 M3 (1993-1999) is the biggest example of BMW being mean to Americans. The E36 M3 came out in Europe as a '93 model, one year after the E36's 1992 debut. It came with the S50B30 motor, which was a 285hp juggernaut of a motor, having solid lifters, infinitely variable VANOS (as opposed to single stage) on the intake cam, etc. It was a true ///M motor, having a dizzyingly high rev limiter, space age technology, hand assembly, etc. In 1995, the E36 M3 showed up in the U.S, and was seriously neutered. The biggest disservice was the motor. The US M3 in '95 came with the S50B30US making 240hp, which is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the S50B30/S50B32. The S50 and later S52US were based off of the M50/M52 motors found in the non-M E36es. They were basically bored, stroked and cammed versions of the M50/M52, whereas the european S50B30 was a completely different animal. The S50/S52s did not rev higher, were not hand built, and were basically a joke compared to the euro S50B30/S50B32s. After '95, the US received the S52B32, which was a 3.2L version of the S50B30US, which BMW needed to do because of the difficulty in maintaining power levels after the switch to OBD-II engine controls. It delivered more of its power in the midrange than the S50B30US, but it still made the 240HP of its predecessor. Then after '95 in Europe, they got the S50B32, otherwise known as the "Evo" motor (only known as that in the UK), which was bumped to 3.2 liters (I have a feeling that you're probably beginning to understand that the numbers after B in the engine codes indicates the displacement of the motor) and made 321hp. Not to mention the fact that we got a mediocre ZF 5 speed with a tendency to have weak mounts and linkages leading to mis-shifts and over-revs (otherwise known as the Money $hift), while Europe got a super-slick Getrag 6 speed trans (which is considered stronger than the Getrag 6 speed in the Supra), that the EU M3 got a significantly larger rear subframe than the US, and that it got the large-case Differential (220) as opposed to the US (medium case 185). European E36 M3s were also the first BMWs to ever get SMG (SMG-I), however, I don't consider that a point of superiority, because the 3rd generation SMG sucks now, so I can only imagine how badly the 1st generation SMG sucked. There are a ton of other little differences in things like brake rotors, etc between the US and EU M3s. Basically, we got really screwed over here in the US. I have a friend (saying he's a friend is being a bit nice, lol) who's been a complete idiot, and has spent a ridiculous amount of time converting a US M3 into full EU spec, with a few add-ons.

The E46 M3 (2000-2006) was almost as equal between the US and the EU in spec, after BMW realized that US customers would pay money to have the real deal. There were only a few small disservices they paid us on the US version, like the crappy pre-catted headers (costing us 8hp over the Europeans, and making the S54 motor that much more buzzy and rice rockety sounding than it already was in the EU), and floating front rotors. Beyond those two things, that was about the extent of the disservice that BMW did to the US in the regular version. However...and that is a big, full bodied however...BMW did not bring us the CSL (coupe sport lightweight) track day special, which really, really sucked for us. The CSL had a ton of Carbon Fiber used in all the right places, different aerodynamics, brakes, wheels, R-compound tires, headers, exhaust, intake, steering rack, seats, steering wheel, trim, and the list goes on. Basically, everything that mattered was different on the CSL. And we didn't get it. We got the ZCP package in '05-'06, which was a step above the base M3, giving us wheels looking almost identical to the CSL, slightly better brakes, suspension and different interior trim bits...but even the bits that were upgraded were nothing compared to those on the CSL.

The E92 M3 (2007-????) Nobody knows yet how much of a disservice BMW will do to its US customers. In reality, it had better not, because it will make that many more people choose the awesome 335, 135, or the imminent 135tii over it.

There's a ridiculously long answer to a question I'm sure you didn't want answered in as much detail as I gave! Sorry about the dissertation!