Dating Advice - I really Screwed up and didn't perform

[Victoria]

No I don't mean bad-girl like beating up a biker-gang and arson bad-girl.

I mean she's dresses with a little more style and edge than the typical girl, asserts herself, and stays out a bit later than most.

She's a city-girl, born and grew up in Central London, she's traveled the world , is well-read and has fantastic somewhat tom-boyish taste (not in watches but in everything else).

I guess "bad-girl" is the wrong word...It's more that I like girls that have strong opinions, listen to mine, can talk about abstract subjects, are fun to debate with and don't just want a successful "husband in a box" whom they don't even get to know so that they can quit their job and start raising babies.

You just described me EXACTLY. And I'm a good girl.

Who knew that to some men being outspoken, being intelligent and being well-read meant being a bad girl. Fascinating.

Anyways, yeah we'll see how it goes. Not much I can do, and in either case I will probably be better off not thinking about it anymore. Since more analysis at this point isn't going to help.

Quite so.

However, I will amend my original advice to you, since I perceive you to be sincere in your post. There is an old saying about men that is absolutely 100% God's own take it to the bank truth:

"Faint heart never won fair lady"

Good luck, Redroom. Sincerely.

[Guest TTK]

She's a city-girl, born and grew up in Central London, she's traveled the world , is well-read and has fantastic somewhat tom-boyish taste (not in watches but in everything else).

Maybe she's a 'sad' girl....not bad....!

[dadog13]

...well you could always send her by e-mail the link to this page so she could actually see how a good guy you are...

[scoobs1971]

Hmmm, I used to be like you... Nice guy, respectful, listening, considerate, sweet etc. Enough girls around me who all wanted me as a friend ('you really understand me') . But I always ended up with the girls running after the bad guys and coming back to seek comfort when the bad guys had left.

Now that I'm a bit older, wiser and turned down just a few times too often, I notice that the times I'm not that considerate and nice anymore, say the things they don't expect to hear and act on impulse instead of thinking too much, the 'bad' girls are chasing me. What a strange world we're living in, hahaha.

Anyway, you need to ask yourself what you want from this girl. You live in the US, she's in the UK. You are 31, she's 23. Do you really want to develop something seriously with her? Or do you just wanna have a good time and see how it goes?

If it's the first, take your chance, take her apart in a quiet place if the time is right and be honest about your feelings. Don't make it too complicated, though. It doesn't need to be an emotional confession.... Keep it light. Just tell her how you have been appreciating her company lately, that she makes you smile and feel good. Look into her eyes, take her hand and say nothing more.... See how she reacts and handle the situation.

If you just wanna have some fun you have to play another game. Don't talk too much, dance, smile, don't pay attention to her, than do pay attention to her etc. Show her a different version of you. Take the initiative. Be bold, but not cocky.. And most important: have fun!

If you notice you have her interested in you take her to a quiet place and .... well you know, hahaha. Have fun and see how it goes.

Either way don't appologize about the other day. You had a hangover. Big deal... Can happen to all of us. Finding excuses for it will only make things worse.

And be prepared to be left in the dark or hurt. There is a real possibility that she isn't interested (anymore)... But you'll get over it.

Anyway, good luck and let us know what happened

[8o8]

PIX OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!

[Desuetude]

You just described me EXACTLY. And I'm a good girl.

Who knew that to some men being outspoken, being intelligent and being well-read meant being a bad girl. Fascinating.

Quite so.

It means that one is a competent, interesting, engaging and fun girl. God forbid there are more of those in this world! If only, if only.

[sulone88]

Redroom become a SUPPORTER and you will find all the answers in the Supporters Lounge.

I don't know how old you are but I'm 26 and just breaking out of the college scene. I've been there my man, well, the "passing out part". Don't worry you need not to explain to her. Just call her, text her or email her. Don't leave her hanging. Don't wait until her or her friends birthday and give her the old "I was going to call you but...." I would not advise you to tell her the way you feel, it might scare her off. Just get in touch and do everything you were doing before the bedroom scene. Just pick up where you left off. Be yourself, be natural because thats what she likes about you. Being someone else will get you laid but when she finds out its over.

If you do end up taking her out find a place where they have wine sampling. They usually have a nice atmosphere and it's different from the normal bar scene and it shows you put some thought in it. Wine samplings are great because they make you talk and interact with each other. The best part about them is if you run into that conversational lull you can always turn and talk about the wine. They usally take about 1 hour to 1hour and 1/2 and at the end your both feeling pretty good. Plus wine tends to break woman down better than any beer or booze. If nothing comes out of it at least you'll gain a little more knowledge on wine.

Thats my 2cents

SULONE

[SubFrog]

I know this thread has been talked up enough, so I'll just say...you're thinking too much on the matter. From experience sake; I've been there, done that, and forgotten about it. I suspect, in a years time, you'll be thinking of someone else.

If you chase after it...it will run away.

If you forget about it...it will come back...no matter who it is.

I would like to comment on Rasta's post:

The bottom line is some women no longer look for gentlemen. I watch at work when people are in the lobby waiting for the elevator and when it comes, most of the men just bowl over the women to get in the damn thing. None of them hold open doors, hold out a chair, get the car door, etc. I feel sorry for my kids, their generation doesn't even respect themselves so how can they respect others?

Man, you hit the nail on the head.

I was born in the south, raised as a gentleman, and it took me 37 years to find my wife. A wife that was brought up in the same manner. My father used to say: "If you let her in the car, watch as you walk around the back to see if she unlocks the door for you...if she does, she's the one for you". (I know, I know, today we don't have those type of locks)

All throughout high school and college, I had many "bad-girl" girlfriends that initially loved the respect...but, in the end, couldn't handle the respect...they couldn't understand it. The bad boys seemed to get all the action...and I played that role for years, but never really thought that was right. For years, I've watched society turn into what you described above. No chivalry, no common courtesy...generally a lack of respect on all counts. My parents have been together for 40 some odd years and divorce was never a question. Just like my grandparents. Those days are gone, my friend. Just look at the divorce rate today. As you stated...I fear for my children. I just hope I can teach them what I learned...if possible.

Just my 2 cents.

[Victoria]

All throughout high school and college, I had many "bad-girl" girlfriends that initially loved the respect...but, in the end, couldn't handle the respect...they couldn't understand it. The bad boys seemed to get all the action...and I played that role for years, but never really thought that was right. For years, I've watched society turn into what you described above. No chivalry, no common courtesy...generally a lack of respect on all counts. My parents have been together for 40 some odd years and divorce was never a question. Just like my grandparents. Those days are gone, my friend. Just look at the divorce rate today. As you stated...I fear for my children. I just hope I can teach them what I learned...if possible.

Loved the quote about reaching over to unlock the door.

I just have to say, whenever I read "our generation" "kids today" types of quotes, I am both amused and sad. It's true, but you know, EVERY generation says that about the succeeding ones. Herodotus said that about young Greeks, Pliny said that about young Romans, and so and so and so on.

It's not that it's not true. Clearly after the Counter-Culture of the 1960s, courtesy norms are not the same.

But it's not as bad as all that.

Yes, the divorce rate is up, but that's because there is greater freedom than before to choose how your life partner (and BTW, it's up in the West, but mostly in North America. Americans always had the "fame" in the UK for being many times divorced. I need not mention Mrs. Simpson...).

Yet there are still ladies and gentlemen out there, and they are not scarce. It just depends on what you are looking for.

Back when I used to date, I always found gentlemen. But that's because I like men like that.

If a man likes a bad girl, the mot du jour in this thread, then don't be surprised if they're not ladies. I suppose when men date they are looking for something sexual or the prettiest girl they can find.

That was never my criteria with men. It was intelligence, character, family, and worldliness. Then looks.

Not too many "bad boys" fit those categories.

[Victoria]

It means that one is a competent, interesting, engaging and fun girl. God forbid there are more of those in this world! If only, if only.

Heh.

Unfortunately, men read that and think of the famous "But she's got a great personality" slur, usually meaning she's not pretty.

And men like pretty girls above all else, right? It's their number one criteria in dating, if perhaps not marrying.

[hambone]

LordRasta speaks the truth. Any woman who places herself drunk in your bed and expects you to slip her the bone,

is not worth hanging on to. You were the gentleman and should be commended, (lack of wood due to drunken stupor not withstanding), and had you gone for it, there is a good chance her reaction would have been the same anyway.

[Victoria]

Hmmm, I used to be like you... Nice guy, respectful, listening, considerate, sweet etc. Enough girls around me who all wanted me as a friend ('you really understand me') . But I always ended up with the girls running after the bad guys and coming back to seek comfort when the bad guys had left.

Now that I'm a bit older, wiser and turned down just a few times too often, I notice that the times I'm not that considerate and nice anymore, say the things they don't expect to hear and act on impulse instead of thinking too much, the 'bad' girls are chasing me. What a strange world we're living in, hahaha.

Love it, Scoobs!

BTW, did you or anyone here ever watch "The Last Days of Disco"?

Typical Whit Stillman effort centering around the preppies of the late 1970s. In one scene, the characters are all talking at Studio 54 (!) about Lady and the Tramp (!), the famous Disney cartoon. This is my absolute favourite scene in the movie.

One of the guys analyses why girls tend to like jerks when they start to date:

"There is something depressing about it and it's not really about dogs. Except for some superficial bow-wow stuff at the start, the dogs all represent human types which is where it gets into real trouble.

Lady, the ostensible protagonist, is a fluffy blond cocker spaniel with absolutely nothing on the brain. She's great looking but, let's be honest, incredibly insipid. Tramp, the love interest is a smarmy braggart of the most obnoxious kind, an oily jail bird out for a piece of tail or whatever he can get.

He's a self confessed chicken thief; an all around sleaze ball.

What's the function of a film of this kind?

Essentially it's a primer about love and marriage directed at very young people, imprinting on their little psyches that smooth talking delinquents recently escaped from the local pound are a good match for nice girls in sheltered homes.

When in ten years the icky human version of Tramp shows up around the house their hormones will be racing and no one will understand why.

Films like this program women to adore jerks."

:lol:

[jfreeman420]

I think you actually did the right thing. You played the "take away". Women want what they can't have.

Don't be an idiot and tell her you are in love with her and all your feelings yatta yatta. Tell her you enjoy her company, have fun and slip her the old sausage. Don't call her for two days after that and she'll be hooked.

[Desuetude]

Yes, the divorce rate is up, but that's because there is greater freedom than before to choose how your life partner (and BTW, it's up in the West, but mostly in North America. Americans always had the "fame" in the UK for being many times divorced. I need not mention Mrs. Simpson...).

I should mention that the divorce rate statistics are often skewed. Actually, the divorce rate is DOWN. The over 50% statistic is one employed by sensationalist news programs. They simply divide the number of marriages by the number of divorces for a given year. Sociologists universally scoff at this blatant manipulation of facts. The number of divorces across the board have dropped nationwide. However, the number of marriages have dropped even more so. Since most people aren't divorced in the first year of marriage, the over 50% statistic is totally flawed, and the number of divorces reflects a pool of couples married in times where marriage was more commonplace, versus today. If you divide the number of divorces in a given year by the total number of married couples, the percentage is tiny, and it is dropping. Not to mention the fact that the number isn't that different from what it was in the '70s. I should also mention that the divorce rate among female college graduates has plummeted to less than half of what it was in the '70s.

Then, people love to lament the dropping marriage rate in this country as a sign that our society is going down the tubes. Meanwhile, the increase in cohabitation is inversely proportional to the drop in marriage rates. Therefore, there is no decrease in the number of couples in this country, it is merely a decrease in the number of people who make the decision to get married. Not to mention the fact that the separation rate of cohabitation is lower than the divorce rate among married couples. Sure, marriage is an institution, but for children, and for all intensive purposes of society, the basic family unit still exists, and in regards to cohabitation, is arguably more stable than it has been since the cultural revolution of the '60s.

Unfortunately, men read that and think of the famous "But she's got a great personality" slur, usually meaning she's not pretty.

And men like pretty girls above all else, right? It's their number one criteria in dating, if perhaps not marrying.

Ah, but see, she must be pretty too. And down to earth, laid back, dynamic, and rational. Alas, my standards are rather high.

[Victoria]

I should mention that the divorce rate statistics are often skewed. Actually, the divorce rate is DOWN. The over 50% statistic is one employed by sensationalist news programs. They simply divide the number of marriages by the number of divorces for a given year. Sociologists universally scoff at this blatant manipulation of facts.

Nice! Thank you for this correction. I will research it a little more.

Then, people love to lament the dropping marriage rate in this country as a sign that our society is going down the tubes.

Well naturally. There is an agenda in place to suggest that the US is going the way of all "empires", and its end is near. One such criteria is being a dissolute society.

Ah, but see, she must be pretty too. And down to earth, laid back, dynamic, and rational. Alas, my standards are rather high.

I have a theory about Gen X'ers (if you are one, as I am, even if I'm a late version).

We don't marry until later because we are deathly afraid of divorce. Not just the failure that implies, and the legal hassle, but the loss of companionship which other generations had until their death.

At least, this is why I haven't married yet. God knows I've been asked enough, but I was always scared...no one on either side of my family, Protestant and Catholic, has EVER been divorced.

[rkdk]

I think you actually did the right thing. You played the "take away". Women want what they can't have.

Don't be an idiot and tell her you are in love with her and all your feelings yatta yatta. Tell her you enjoy her company, have fun and slip her the old sausage. Don't call her for two days after that and she'll be hooked.

I 2econd that. You have the age advantage (for a 23 year old girl to score a guy like you is a big deal). You allready provoced her with english women joke. English women love being taken the [censored] out off, especially if they are the strong types. When she was in your bed, and you didnt make the move, it was the absolutely perfect thing to do, because you have left her wondering.

She wants to know what the deal is now. She wants to know why this 30odd year old guy, didnt jump on her like she is used to. She is curious for sure.

Give her a call, and ask her if she by any chance took the keys to your bike when she left, because you cant seem to find them. Then ask if she by any chance would be interested in helping you look for them.

[Victoria]

English women love being taken the [censored] out off, especially if they are the strong types. When she was in your bed, and you didnt make the move, it was the absolutely perfect thing to do, because you have left her wondering.

There's only one problem with this logic, though overall it is a correct observation.

British men tend to be cool towards women. They are not full of bragodoccio, slobbering compliments and showering kisses, nor are they masters of Le Grand Jeste like many Latin men tend to be.

(This distance was in part, why I rarely dated British men whilst I was at University. I stuck to American Rhodeys, and foreigners like Italians, and Frenchmen. There was never that fatiguing competitiveness with these guys)

This despite, may I say, the fact that though there is a famous joke that one of the World's Smallest Books is "Famous English Lovers", actually British males are excellent in bed.

Just don't ask me how I know that.

So if Redroom's bit of rough is English, she's used to this type of cool behaviour and didn't dismiss him because of it. IMO, anyway.

[redroom]

As promised an update: Unfortunately it was a bit anti-climatic and it turns out I was overreacting/thinking the entire issue.

She never showed up on Wednesday. I was pretty upset about it but went out and had a good time anyways.

Yesterday I dropped her one last email. I had a good excuse since her flat-mate is American and I wanted her to find out if any of the local Americans were getting together for Thanksgiving.

A few hours later I got a response. She apologized for not getting back to me earlier, she said she was unable to check her email for the last few days. She also asked what my plans were for the weekend and said that it would be good to get together!

I wrote back to her inviting her to another group trip for the weekend. So we'll see. I decided I'll let her drive this one for a bit.

So it turns out I was beating myself up over nothing.

Lessons Learned:

I'm going to just relax and take it easy with this one. In the end although I thought I had made a mistake by not sleeping with her it turns out I did the right think. I didn't do something because I didn't want to do it, so I don't need to apologize for that.

I'm not going to talk to her about my feelings or any of that. I think she likes me because I'm usually pretty relaxed and don't take things too serious, so I'll continue being myself.

To be honest I hesitated posting this at all because I'm feeling a little ridiculous about getting so worked up over the situation and posting my drama on a website.

So yeah, thats it! Guess we will see where it goes. But I wanted to thank all of you for the wonderful advice. I got a lot of good information from here, but I suppose thats to be expected when I post on forum populated by people who obsess over details!

-R

[scoobs1971]

Lessons Learned:

I'm going to just relax and take it easy with this one. In the end although I thought I had made a mistake by not sleeping with her it turns out I did the right think. I didn't do something because I didn't want to do it, so I don't need to apologize for that.

I'm not going to talk to her about my feelings or any of that. I think she likes me because I'm usually pretty relaxed and don't take things too serious, so I'll continue being myself.

To be honest I hesitated posting this at all because I'm feeling a little ridiculous about getting so worked up over the situation and posting my drama on a website.

I think you're doing what fits your personality best. So go with it! And yes, relax, take it easy and see how it goes.

Don't feel ridiculous about posting here about the situation. We've all been there before and I'm sure most men (and ms V ) don't mind to advise another guy

Have a nice weekend and enjoy!

[CY0811]

Not sure if you resolved this but I personally wouldnt call her or email her again for a while.....I would speak to her at the party as if nothing had happened but also talk to as many other girls/guys as possible (lets call it socially dominating ).....I wouldnt let her know she had caused so much emotional turmoil even though I would probably want to if I fell for her that bad so fast....Lord Rasta is right, at her age she is probably just looking for a good time....Im about that age and most girls I know are the same. If she wasn't at the party I would wait about 2 weeks and then communicate by simply saying, "I hope things are well with you" etc. Many young girls seem to want what they cant have. Sad but true.

[Victoria]

Many young girls seem to want what they cant have. Sad but true.

CY0811:

Human BEINGS want what they cannot have. This is the story of the Garden of Eden, and every human story since then.

Fortunately, Redroom, as you get older that desire to have what you cannot have lessens itself. That's when you begin to appreciate what you've had, what you have, and even what you cannot have.

BTW, don't beat yourself up about posting this. This isn't just a rep watch forum. Once you've been here for a while, and are involved in the forum, you become a part of a community*. People care about each other, you know? Good luck to you!

*I hesitate to say family, because I've never been involved in a dysfunctional one.

[CY0811]

I agree VB...=)

Edited November 25, 2007 by CY0811

[archibald]

Time was you wouldn't think about that until the wedding bells rung, but these days, such values have become completely obsolete. What a said age we have created indeed.

Good luck.

Ahh, those were the days...the days before sex.

Thank God morals that never existed can't become obsolete, so the OP or anyone else familair with the history of the world doesn't have to worry about anything but the current dilemma, which is to say the oldest dilemma there is: how he's going to get into chickiepoo's pants.

My approach would be to pick up the phone, just like all those wholesome folks back in 1959 would have done.

[TWP]

Human BEINGS want what they cannot have

Perhaps the reason why we buy replicas

Remember son the hunt is always better than the kill.

[Emmzy]

''This despite, may I say, the fact that though there is a famous joke that one of the World's Smallest Books is "Famous English Lovers", actually British males are excellent in bed''.

Absolutely correct!

We Englishmen are bread to be gentlemen. The lady always comes first.