First Teddy Bear, now this

[eddhead]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/world/01...agewanted=print

December 1, 2007

Saudi Rape Case Spurs Calls for Reform

By RASHEED ABOU-ALSAMHJIDDA, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 30

[Guest watchbuff]

There is no help for these people.

[narikaa]

This will only leave you at a loss for words if, like most others, you have not troubled yourself to find out the mere basics of what these people are all about.

.

[eddhead]

This will only leave you at a loss for words if, like most others, you have not troubled yourself to find out the mere basics of what these people are all about.

.

I hear ya. I mean I do keep abreast of this crap, but still I try to approch differennces about religon and culture with an open mind. Still I wasn't born yesterday, and I know there are some cultures and institutionalized actions that are indefensible.. clearly this is one such culture and action.

It just seems like everytime I think I have heard or read it all, something like this comes up, and it just blows my mind. And that Moron Prince pointing a finger at the western press implying the people of Saudi are being vitimized by the reporting of the incident is equally galling and deflating.

[Dani]

There is no help for these people.

they get alot of help from the US Gov and all the gas junkie SUV drivers in the US

[eddhead]

they get alot of help from the US Gov and all the gas junkie SUV drivers in the US

Not so fast. The EU is a MAJOR importer of Gulf Oil and is forecasting growth in import rates of up to 29% by 2012. It is the number 2 importer of Oil globally even after accounting its own productin from the UK, Norway, etc.. In otherwords, the oil produced in those countries is not enough to compensate for the need. <H2 class=title>EU oil imports set to grow by 29% by 2012</H2>Posted by Euan Mearns on October 3, 2006 - 9:30am in The Oil Drum: Europe

Topic: Demand/Consumption

Tags: consumption, eu, oil prices, peak oil

An oil production, consumption, import-export model for the 25 EU states (plus Norway, Iceland and Switzerland) is presented, based on data published in the 2006 BP statistical review.

Applying a 0.5% growth in consumption and a 8% production decline rate points to EU oil imports growing from 9.8 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2005 to 12.6 million bpd by 2012 - an increase of 29% over the next 6 years.

The EU will have to "fight" for these additional resources in an oil import market already hot with competition from the USA, China and other developing countries.

http://' target="_blank">

The European Union

The European Union, with a population of around 460 million, consumes over 15 million barrels of oil per day and is the world number two oil consumer after the USA. This article looks at EU oil production and consumption with the aim of establishing future import trends and EU energy security. A recent report has highlighted the fact that EU energy imports are rising and this is happening at a time when Russia is tightening State control over its oil and gas assets.

solution to being part of the oil security problem.

[Victoria]

they get alot of help from the US Gov and all the gas junkie SUV drivers in the US

The Chinese will make Americans look like Mormons, we'll be so dry. The faster we find alternative fuels, and let these people fall back into the morass of backwardness that TE Lawrence found them in, can't come soon enough for me.

As a woman, I am utterly repulsed and wonder where NOW (National Organisation of Women) are, where are Code Pink, where are feminists the world over, when they read these stories. No doubt still sending angry emails to CBS about Wardrobe Malfunctions being exploitative to women. Ugh.

[Dani]

Not so fast. The EU is a MAJOR importer of Gulf Oil and is forecasting growth in import rates of up to 29% by 2012. It is the number 2 importer of Oil globally even after accounting its own productin from the UK, Norway, etc.. In otherwords, the oil produced in those countries is not enough to compensate for the need. <H2 class=title>EU oil imports set to grow by 29% by 2012</H2>Posted by Euan Mearns on October 3, 2006 - 9:30am in The Oil Drum: Europe

Topic: Demand/Consumption

Tags: consumption, eu, oil prices, peak oil

An oil production, consumption, import-export model for the 25 EU states (plus Norway, Iceland and Switzerland) is presented, based on data published in the 2006 BP statistical review.

Applying a 0.5% growth in consumption and a 8% production decline rate points to EU oil imports growing from 9.8 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2005 to 12.6 million bpd by 2012 - an increase of 29% over the next 6 years.

The EU will have to "fight" for these additional resources in an oil import market already hot with competition from the USA, China and other developing countries.

<a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>

The European Union

The European Union, with a population of around 460 million, consumes over 15 million barrels of oil per day and is the world number two oil consumer after the USA. This article looks at EU oil production and consumption with the aim of establishing future import trends and EU energy security. A recent report has highlighted the fact that EU energy imports are rising and this is happening at a time when Russia is tightening State control over its oil and gas assets.

solution to being part of the oil security problem.

Norway is not a part of EU and man i happy for that.

Cheers,.

[elwopo]

And now here is a massively unpopular viewpoint.....

People are pigs.

There is so much ranted on about cultures, history, and traditions. It's all an attempt, in an intellectual way, to make sense of situations that make no sense.

No matter where anyone lives...no matter what their culture is....no matter what they believe....no matter what they find unacceptable.....

one thing remains the same....

There seems no limit to man's inhumanity to man......and our worldwide indifference to it. It crosses all social, economic, and cultural boundries.

We...as a world population....just don't give a [censored] when push comes to shove....as long as it doesn't directly affect us.

Right this moment....as you read this....someone in this world is being abused. Rape....murder....robbery....beating......

but it's not 'real' until it hits too close to home. God (or higher power) forbid that it ever happens to one of 'us'.

Human nature is a cesspool that has no regard for religion, country, origin, or history.

We allocate our wealth so that we can pay millions to one individual who can control a ball. We marvel at how islands can be created out of nothing....to create new land forms that look like a palm tree from space.

Yet we allow....daily....the abuse and destruction of humanity. We allow it by turning a blind eye to what goes on around us.

So......despite all the negative nature of above......let's not forget why we are really here.

It's important that we concentrate on rehauts, straps, date fonts, and the ultimately earth shatteringly important wrist checks.

Show us what you're wearing....screw everythig (and everybody) else.

Just a thought......

[TeeJay]

And of course, every Muslim is a suicide-bombing rapist. Just like every white person is a racist and every German is a Nazi.

Not so long back, (just before I converted) someone posted that this community needed more Muslims. Given the level of tollerated Islamophobia running rampant here, is it any wonder that there aren't??

[llsteve80]

I think people in general are just plain animals. It's easy to say how those of us in the western world are more civilized than the "barbarians" in the middle east, but the truth is people are the same everywhere. They act according to the traditions and customs of there whereabouts, because what they see in there surroundings is what is normal to them. The Iraqis, for instance, aren't bombing US troops because they're muslims or sunnis or sheiks, but because it is acceptable and there are plenty of things to make bombs out of. It's the crazy ones doing this [censored], not the normal or average ones. Go to any US city, take away all the cops, and just lay boxes of grenades, missles, and guns around for people to pick up at will and all of the sudden people are going to be engaing in some trivial war over trivial nonsense JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. Not everyone would be involved, just the ones with a need/desire to fight for something, no matter what it is. With no repercussions, violence will ensue.

As for the girl in the article, that is total bullsh... but it doesn't call for one to say that everyone over there is a barbarian. If so, then why the F are people in her own country sticking up for her? Most are downright appalled, thats why. A few probably just want attention, but what do you think goes on in our world?

I do agree that some countries out there need to modernize their governments and laws, and I believe that once they do, things like this will stop taking place. They don't need to be converted or anything, the masses are just followers, and they will follow their leaders with whatever they say.

I could go on for hours, but nobody will agree with me anyway, its religion and politics mixed.

[eddhead]

Norway is not a part of EU and man i happy for that.

Cheers,.

True, but the author of this aticle does consider them a part of the EU trading block. As you know, Norway is an EXPORTER of oil however, and as such has minimal if any dependency on Gulf Oil.

@ teejay

I do not agree with your premise that the board is largely comprised of islamophobes. refer to my other teddy post.

[TeeJay]

I do not agree with your premise that the board is largely comprised of islamophobes. refer to my other teddy post.

Edd, that was not my premise. I said:

Given the level of tollerated Islamophobia running rampant here, is it any wonder that there aren't??

There have been several posts, both recently and not so recently, where certain members (not naming names) have made extremely ignorant and bigoted posts against Islam and Muslims, and, they have not been corrected for it by Admin or his moderators, therefore, this behavious appears to be tollerated. One such spam post was removed following a complaint, but I would not like to say that it would have been had there not been a complaint made.

If someone was to title a post "All n****s are murdering crack-head rapists" or "All Jews are hook-nosed shylock c*nts", then the member responsible would likely be disciplined for it. The fact that it has not happened to people making Islamophobic comments, makes it appear to be tollerated, and that could be why there are not more Muslim members.

[narikaa]

But in fairness TJ

'N's' (for their name cannot be uttered) & Jews have not to date declared war on the nations of most of the members

Have they?

.

[TeeJay]

But in fairness TJ

'N's' (for their name cannot be uttered) & Jews have not to date declared war on the nations of most of the members

Have they?

.

Neither have the majority of the 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide...

[Pugwash]

Neither have the majority of the 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide...

This isn't some extremists at work, this is Saudi-[censored]!ng-Arabia. A country interpreting Sharia Law, a premise you agree with, taken to its natural end.

Law and God should never be the same thing as this is what happens.

Religion is the Crack of the masses. It'll denigrate you and rob you blind, and you'll be grateful for it.

ps. I don't hate Islam. I'm merely a rationalist that thinks thousand-plus year-old made-up stories of wise men should have no place in modern government. I respect peoples' faiths, but have no time for those who control the religions. Yes, your faith is based on made-up stories, but if it makes you happy and a better person, I'm all for it.

[TeeJay]

This isn't some extremists at work, this is Saudi-[censored]!ng-Arabia. A country interpreting Sharia Law

a premise you agree with,

Not when it is based on hadith. A point I made very clear.

Religion is the Crack of the masses. It'll denigrate you and rob you blind, and you'll be grateful for it.

In your opinion.

ps. I don't hate Islam. I'm merely a rationalist that thinks thousand-plus year-old made-up stories of wise men should have no place in modern government. I respect peoples' faiths, but have no time for those who control the religions. Yes, your faith is based on made-up stories, but if it makes you happy and a better person, I'm all for it.

Who are you to say those stories are made up? Where is your proof of that?

Indeed, you do not hate Islam, but you clearly do not understand it, and that is fine, but do not expect me to accept your opinions, just because you feel it is 'made up'. Here's something else which is 'made up', but people still believe in: Evolution. It is a theory, it has yet to be actually proven as 100% correct.

[Pugwash]

Here's something else which is 'made up', but people still believe in: Evolution. It is a theory, it has yet to be actually proven as 100% correct.

You accuse me of not reading your holy book, yet you can't even see the difference between a scientific theory (everything is a theory in science) and literary heresay? Do some research: Evolution is accepted as the most likely version of events and just because scientists are disagreeing over the finer points doesn't mean it should be discounted as complete fiction.

Gravity is a theory, particle physics is atomic theory, electricity is a theory, are you saying that we should discount them as well?

Until all religious leaders can sit down and decide which of them is right, they should all be discounted equally and never, ever given power or arms.

Islamists seem to gravitate towards the Sharia Law based, as you say, on "Do not write down anything of me except the Qur'an. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" and that is obviously a disaster waiting to happen, but basing law on the Qur'an is equally as dangerous as it can't take into account, for instance, software piracy. Software piracy doesn't break any religious laws as theft was always seen as depriving someone of something they own.

Society evolves (unless you want it to stay in the stone ages and you discount both cultural and biological evolution) and a law based on immutable text is possibly the stupidest thing I can imagine, especially when the text is so ambiguous.

Islam only survives because of the financial power in the middle east. It lives and dies by oil, I'm afraid. When the oil runs out, the radicals take more power and we're all screwed.

[TeeJay]

You accuse me of not reading your holy book, yet you can't even see the difference between a scientific theory (everything is a theory in science) and literary heresay? Do some research: Evolution is accepted as the most likely version of events and just because scientists are disagreeing over the finer points doesn't mean it should be discounted as complete fiction.

Personally, I can see the difference. The point I was making, is that evolution has not been 100% absolutely proven, but is still accepted thus. Likewise. Do some research: Get a copy of the Holy Qur'an and read it.

Until all religious leaders can sit down and decide which of them is right, they should all be discounted equally and never, ever given power or arms.

And who says that these people should even be religious leaders? Why does there have to be an 'organization' to religion? People have their scriptures, that is all they need.

Islamists seem to gravitate towards the Sharia Law based, as you say, on "Do not write down anything of me except the Qur'an. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" and that is obviously a disaster waiting to happen, but basing law on the Qur'an is equally as dangerous as it can't take into account, for instance, software piracy. Software piracy doesn't break any religious laws as theft was always seen as depriving someone of something they own.

As I have said several times, a lot of these 'Islamists' are people who have been raised in the faith, so are following organized doctrine, rather than following pure scripture. Sharia rules on theft are specific, and it is potentially quite possible for software piracy to be considered theft under those conditions, if those conditions are met.

Society evolves (unless you want it to stay in the stone ages and you discount both cultural and biological evolution) and a law based on immutable text is possibly the stupidest thing I can imagine, especially when the text is so ambiguous.

Have you read the Holy Qur'an? If not, who are you to say that the text is ambiguous? It is written in a clear manner, the only confusion one might experience, is dealing with terms or formalities no longer used in contemporary language.

Islam only survives because of the financial power in the middle east. It lives and dies by oil, I'm afraid. When the oil runs out, the radicals take more power and we're all screwed.

Only about 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries. Again, there is a confusion between Muslims, extremist radicals, actual religious guidelines, and region-specific social guidelines. Yes, if radicals take more power, we're screwed, so hopefully more rational minds will prevail, and these people will cease to be a threat.

As I said before, I am not prepared to continue discussing this issue with you, because you have a very fixed opinion about Islam which is not accurate, appears to be based more on hearesay than actual religious study, and for the simple reason that Ry pointed out. I have nothing to justify to your or anyone else. As I said before:

Unbelievers

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!

[109.2] I worship not that which ye worship,

[109.3] And ye do not worship that which I worship;

[109.4] I shall never worship that which ye worship,

[109.5] Neither will ye worship that which I worship;

[109.6] To you be your religion; To me my religion.

If you cannot respect that, then that is an issue for you to resolve with yourself.

[Pugwash]

Get a copy of the Holy Qur'an and read it.

I don't have time to learn Arabic.

[narikaa]

I don't have time to learn Arabic.

Just Cherry Pick the highlights here

http://www.islamundressed.com/

[scoobs1971]

There seems no limit to man's inhumanity to man......and our worldwide indifference to it. It crosses all social, economic, and cultural boundries.

We...as a world population....just don't give a [censored] when push comes to shove....as long as it doesn't directly affect us.

A rather cynical point of view to which I agree...

Unfortunately even the people who try to do good in daily life are not aware of the 'ungood' they unintentionally and unknowingly do to others on the other part of the world.

We drive cars running on gas supporting inhuman governments, we eat chocalate and buy diamonds from countries who maintain a system of modern slavery, we buy clothes made by children living and working under terrible circumstances - and yet we just go on buying and closing our eyes...... So here you have it, on the one hand we condone countries/cultures for their - in our eyes - unhuman behaviour while on the other hand we support their system to feed our hunger for mass-consumption.....

It's a strange world we're living in....

[Mickey Padge]

Poor woman, gang raped and then sentenced to be flogged because of it. Screwed up justice system right there.....

Religion is the bain of modern times.

[eddhead]

Just Cherry Pick the highlights here

http://www.islamundressed.com/

I am not sure if this is the same Vernon Williams or not.. i tried to google his name thru my company pc and IP found him referenced on a page called faithfreedom.org and could not access the site because it was identified as a "hate speech" site by our corporate filters. Sorry, but that makes me a bit suspicious about his objectivitiy.

[hambone]

Blah blah blah, there are simply way too many whack job muslims pushing their whack job agendas on the rest of the world. Perhaps setting up a string of international lobotomy clinics in hotbeds of whack job fundamentalism, and scramble their frontal lobes, since they are not using their brains for any good purpose anyway. Common sense is the least common thing around it seems of late.