Another Frankenjust is born, and off to Europe.

[Guest watchbuff]

Gen:

16200 case

SS polished smooth bezel

Tudor hands 90/150/25

Gen SS crown

linen dial

Band is a Gen Jubilee by me (loaner) and just the head will be shipped at owner's request.

ETA 2824-2 powered.

Classic look.

[pitimany]

@ watchbuff

It looks very good. One questions, if you don't mind answering.

Are you modiffing the 2824s (higher cannon pin and hour wheel) to allow hands to go over these high markers on the rolex dial ?

Thanks,

P

[UB7]

Very nice! Really like the linen dial but isn't that an oyster band? Doesn't look like a jub

[LordRasta]

That is a fine looking timepiece. Very classy.

[310jag]

I'll second Rasta's classy comment. Love the dial.

No one would ever suspect it to be anything but 100% gen.

[Guest watchbuff]

Absolutely right! It's a rep Oyster, the jubilee pics I still have to load. The cannon pins I do not change and they clear the stick markers by a slight "bend" in the hands. Im shipping this one off tomorrow and have another done I will take pics of today.

S for detecting it as a rep, I would not classify this as a "rep" more like a hybrid. My DJ is all gen but the movement. Unless someone has a caseback opener, I do not sweat a closer inspection.

Edited December 3, 2007 by watchbuff

[Dizzy]

very nice work! Good job

[RWG Technical]

The cannon pins I do not change and they clear the stick markers by a slight "bend" in the hands.

The watch looks great, although after all the money that went into a gen case and dial, the Tudor hands, etc...I have a hard time accepting that it's better to "bend the hands to clear the markers", than to tell the customer he needs to spend $30 on a correct longer second wheel, cannon pinion and hour wheel... and pay for the 30 minutes required to replace these parts so that the hands sit parallel to the dial as they should, and are not bent.

I am not a big fan of short cuts in watchmaking, or not spending another $50 to do it the right way. But to each their own I guess.

RG

[Guest watchbuff]

Well The Zigmeister, I offer the option. It's not a hard fix. I have been fortunate enough that the Frankens with their respective dials have nott needed a "bend" to the point where it looks wrong, I think I have some success with the way it has been working out. Thank's for the "constructive" critricism.

I forgot to add that the datewheel is from wholesale outlet and clears the back of the dial with a .015mm spacer ring.

I think the consensus is that my end results have been dependable.

[HauteHippie]

Very sharp. I agree with The Zigmeister, though. Do it right the first time and you'll get fewer "call backs".

[stilty]

That is a very sharp looking dial case combo! BTW, that is a tuxedo dial, not linen dial, regardless, it looks great!

But I also have to agree, for the minor amount of extra work and cost involved, changing the cannon pinion, hour wheel, and fourth wheel is a no brainer. Do things right the first time, and you will avoid problems down the road, especially when working on other peoples watches. Those parts are very easy to obtain, and are available in many different heights. I think you would need a fitting height of 3 if I remember correctly for the 2824-2.

I forgot to add that the datewheel is from wholesale outlet and clears the back of the dial with a .015mm spacer ring.

That sounds interesting. How did you solve the stem alignment issues? I'm really curious as I find that even using the Noob or Luenfat overlays are tricky and space between dial and movement must be kept to the extreme minumum in order to allow for an acceptable stem alignment. Those Noob and Luenfat overlays are only 0.07mm thick. The gen and wholesale discs are between 0.17 and 0.19 thick. Add in a 0.05mm layer of epoxy and it seems the space between the dial and movement would definately be cause for stem alignment issues. I would love to know how you do it? When I was using 2824-2's, I could never fit an overlay thicker than a rep overlay as it would always rub against the back of the dial, or not operate properly. If I added a spacer between 2824-2 and dial, then the stem would not align and eventually snap. From my experience, the only way one can use a gen, or wholesale date disc as an overlay, is with the thinner 2892 movement. Then there are no stem alignment issues. Perfect alignment, no binding, easily screwed in, and waterproof.

[Guest watchbuff]

There is a slight issue with alignment and with the case of a watch made for a member here, the needle filing of one side of the case tube inner diameter opened it up a bit for less bending causing stems to snap.

I do agree that a higher canon pin and our wheel is the way to go and plan that in my next with a 2892-A2 I just got.

I usually only would build one if asked and have made 5 so far with no issues but keep improving with every generation.

[stilty]

There is a slight issue with alignment and with the case of a watch made for a member here, the needle filing of one side of the case tube inner diameter opened it up a bit for less bending causing stems to snap.

I guess that is an option and will work, but will lead to problems down the road. Is the gasket still in the tube? Filing out tube may lead to leaking. You should advise your customers to keep it away from water. And also advise them to not screw and unscrew the crown too much. Those tubes are thin enough already, and filing them down will just make them thinner and weaker, and they will eventually break off the case.

[Guest watchbuff]

I guess that is an option and will work, but will lead to problems down the road. Is the gasket still in the tube? Filing out tube may lead to leaking. You should advise your customers to keep it away from water. And also advise them to not screw and unscrew the crown too much. Those tubes are thin enough already, and filing them down will just make them thinner and weaker, and they will eventually break off the case.

Absolutely I say to whoever that I would retreat away from water wearing this watch. Actually, no where on the DJ does it even mention the words water resistant.

The tube could get weaker and I agree it could be an issue but so far they have been working and none have come back since UB7's stem snapped.

My next one is with a 2892 A2 wholesale DW and gen case set w/dial. Planning on a proper canon pinion in this one as well.

I planm this to be the standard for all the rest. The movement is twice of a 2824-2 but worth it after snapping enough stems and elongating casetube bores.

So who has the NOOB datewheel? Also I have been searching for the higher canon pinion and hour wheel (3) but no luck and info or links on where to go??

[fijikid]

Manischewitz!!! That's a fine looking timepiece. Would love to own one of those - really classic. Nice work. Would love to be able to confidently tackle such projects.

[stilty]

no where on the DJ does it even mention the words water resistant.

My next one is with a 2892 A2 wholesale DW and gen case set w/dial.

The DJ is rated to 100m, so if the case is assembled properly, all will achieve that rating. But if shortcuts are made, I wouldn't even wear it while washing my hands.

The 2892-A2 is a good choice, but they are expensive, but well worth it in my opinion.

Here are a couple of shots of perfect stem alignment with the Eta 12892 installed in a 16220 case. I'm still working on finishing this, and hope to have it done by the weekend. I only have a couple hours a week if I'm lucky to work on it. The 12892 is the uncle of the 2892-A2. Same thickness, just larger diameter.

It is hard to shoot with the camera and may not look perfect in the pictures, but trust me, it is perfectly aligned. There will be no binding issues. The crown will screw down as it should and seal up with the gasket. Winding will be smooth, as with date and time setting.

Side view shot. It is hard to get the angle right to show that the stem is aligned properly.

Here is a shot from the 6 o'clock lug.

And finally, a shot of the movement installed. This is the same movement I used in my wife's OP Date. I've got a few that I picked up for future projects.

Also, I never do work for others, even though I've been asked. Even though I feel my skills are adequate to take on such a task, For one, I don't even have enough time to finish my own watches, and two, I do not service or tear down movements with enough skill to offer that to a potential customer. I do have every movement I use fully serviced by my local watchmaker before I assemble the watch. The cost and waiting time would not make it feasible to offer building watches for others. Why do I get each movement serviced? If one is spending that much money on genuine parts, a fresh movement is the only way to go. I want at least 5 years of trouble free service out of my watch if I am going to spend that kind of money on parts. Also, even if you buy a movement from ofrei or anywhere else, most are surplus movements. Unless vacuum sealed direct from ETA, then they definately need a service before use.

[pitimany]

Here is a shot from the 6 o'clock lug.

I like this. good alignment

[RWG Technical]

That is the correct way to do watchsmith work. The right way. That stem is where is should be - CENTERED and Parellel to the center line.

Shortcuts or hack jobs don't work on watches anymore than they do on any other precise mechanical equipment. Not doing it the right way is a sign of someone who either doesnt' care, or doesnt' know better, or both. Certainly stems that go in at an angle, (not a slight angle but one sharp enough to require filling down the inside of the crown tube for it to work) are sure to lead to problems with the keyless works (you would think that when you resort to filling away at the case tube, you should realize you have a problem).

The movement is not designed to take a side load in this area and precise alignment is mandatory. The stem is either going to break off (just like it did on UB7's and will continue to do...), or the keyless works is going to jam up during use. Bending hands for the want of $30 worth of correct parts...come on... Hopefully the customer is reading this and realizes what he's getting for his money.

To each their own, hackjobs always lead to one thing, disapointment and problems for the customer and end user.

At least everyone knows what to expect from watchbuff's workbench, everything I have commented on are his words and workmanship standards.

RG

[Guest watchbuff]

The Zigmeister, It sounds like your crapping on me. I think you once were "learning" this art. Im sure you have been perfect and NEVER made a mistake. I do not doubt your craftsmanship and ability.

Like I said I am learning and improving.

At least everyone knows what to expect from watchbuff's workbench, everything I have commented on are his words and workmanship standards.

That's a nice thing to say to another person in a public forum. I never called you out on being a jet jock which I think is BS and I could have easily done that but it appears you have a problem with me.

Keeps your comments to yourself.

Maybe it's not the work you approve of, but for a hobbyist like me who does this for fun, a person that has an attitude like yours can put someone off as easily as a dealer can after being scammed.

Just like life, I am finding this hobby has its share of a$$holes and detract from the pleasurable experience it should be.

As for my next Franken, it will have a 2892-A2 and be my personal best. Is that ok with you The Zigmeister?

Really a turn of, (no longer a supporter for reasons like this and for the attitudes of some other's as well)

A few bad apples, always spoil the bunch.

[RWG Technical]

Ziggy, It sounds like your crapping on me. I think you once were "learning" this art. Im sure you have been perfect and NEVER made a mistake. I do not doubt your craftsmanship and ability.

No crapping going on, I am only highlighting your standards of workmanship. I spend my childhood sitting next to a watchmaker extraordinaire, and learnt all I could...as an adult, I took the time zone school course, practiced, practiced, and read and practiced some more. I taught and did everything on my own watches, UNTIL I could do it perfect before I offered my service to others. This is the difference between you and I.

Like I said I am learning and improving.

That's a nice thing to say to another person in a public forum. I never called you out on being a jet jock which I think is BS and I could have easily done that but it appears you have a problem with me.

I never said I was a Jet Jock, I said I rode in the backseat. There is no RIO on a F-18 (in case you didn't know), you just go along for the ride... Google "421 Tac F Sqn" and see what the moto was...you'll have your answer and proof really fast... and for the record, I don't lie or make things up.

Keeps your comments to yourself.

Maybe it's not the work you approve of, but for a hobbyist like me who does this for fun, a person that has an attitude like yours can put someone off as easily as a dealer can after being scammed.

I can't imagine that anyone would approve of your work standards or ethics. This is a public forum, I repeated what you stated. Doing it for fun ends when you offer to do watch work for MONEY, for others, you better do it right, or the members here need to know the difference. So no, I wont' keep my comments to myself...

Just like life, I am finding this hobby has its share of a$$holes and detract from the pleasurable experience it should be.

As for my next Franken, it will have a 2892-A2 and be my personal best. Is that ok with you Ziggy?

Really a turn of, (no longer a supporter for reasons like this and for the attitudes of some other's as well)

A few bad apples, always spoil the bunch.

So let me see if I understand this... your calling me an a$$hole because you don't know what your doing when it comes to watchsmithing. You have posted here that you bend hands instead of buying the correct parts for the job, you not only install movements in cases where the stems dont' line up with the case, you go so far as to actually grind down the inside of the tube to make the crown thread on...you have done this before and the stem has broken off...and I'm the one with a bad attitude who's an a$$hole??

Your a hack and don't have a clue what your doing. Offering to do it for money you had better do it perfect, or don't offer or do it at all.

Screwing up your own watch is one thing, doing all the things you yourself have described in detail here, on someone else's watch - for money - is unaceptable in my book and I am not alone...

RG

[dieselpower]

I have had a bad experience with a "modder" who did a poor job and ripped me off.

Either do the job in your own way for your own pleasure. Or do it properly, like a professional, for payment. There is no half way house if you want to avoid ill feeling. IMHO.

[stilty]

@ Watchbuff.

I don't think attacking one of the most respected member here is very cool.

I believe that the majority of us on this board support and respect those who mod themselves, build their own frankens, etc. We like to offer help, advice, and tips we have learned along the way. The Zigmeister is one of the most knowledgable members and is always available for advice and help. He is very supportive of those who are willing to learn. He has posted and responded to new findings, movement reviews, pretty much everything.

There have been too many people who have been ripped off by those that claim they can do proper work. No one here has a problem with you learning, and posting your results, asking questions, and seeking advise. I think the point you are missing is that modding and building for other members is the problem. I don't care if you say you haven't had a complaint "yet". If the work is not done properly, it is guaranteed that there will be problems down the road.

Building for yourself and learning from your mistakes is one thing, building for others and having THEM learn and pay for your mistakes is another.

[Guest watchbuff]

Great, you have "sounded the war trumpet", beat your chest and stamp your feet and bask in the glory of all that kiss your ass here. Please.

I respect your knowledge and intellect but find your personality totally abrasive and condescending.

You have alot of kowledge and are willing to share it, but let it be known that you know. Modesty is not your strong suit.

I have built a few Frankens and maybe not to the standards that would be considered top shelf but like I said, and will say before. I am learning. I too sat with a watchmaker some years ago and tried to learn but did not have the patience then to sit still and learn this fine craft. I learned many, many others and I reap the rewards of them everyday.

One member here asked me to "help" them build their Franken's because they could go no where else. They could have asked you could they not? I did not stop them.

I don't think attacking one of the most respected member here is very cool.

STILTY ARE YOU KIDDING? ATTACK? DID YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD?

No one has "ill" feelings toward me from anyone I have helped. I am not in it for the $...believe me. (I have seen the price list)

I have been upfront and honest with everyone and took a modest sum for my time and supplied some of my own material is some cases.

Thats all I will say on that and no further "crapping" is nessecary.

The air is clear and my feelings are not hurt, if I cared about you or respected you they might.

[stilty]

if I cared about you or respected you they might.

Good luck hacking up that 2892-A2. Don't expect any help from my corner. I was going to send you the order numbers for the required parts you would need, but you obviously don't need my help. You seem to have everything under control.

btw. you are still missing the point.

[RWG Technical]

Well if there are members here that kiss my ass, that would be news to me. Why are you getting so bend out of shape anyway, your the one who's doing the poor work, by your own admission.

If you consider helping others here with their technical questions, or posting a detailed review of a new movement as not being modest or "letting it be known that I know" then that is your opinion. Members ask a question, I answer it if I can, do you want me to get all fluffy and touchy feely so I am not "abrasive" to sensitive members like you? French is my first language, not ENGLISH, text does not convey emotion if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. And since no one else is complaining, it seems as if your trying to deflect the issue.

I really could care less if this person went to you or anyone else to have the work done. You don't know what your doing, now everyone knows this fact and can make informed decisions.

It's obvious you don't only care about stilty or the help he has given you, you don't care about your customer either. The amount of money you collect is irrelevant if your doing poor work.

And if your suggesting I am in it for the $, get real. Do I work for free, of course not, no one should. How much do you give to the forum? according to you - nothing anymore... Sit down and contribute a couple of detailed posts such as I have and continue to do, on my time, at my expense, etc, and you'll soon find out how much time I give to the forum. As for my work prices, wake up to reality, have a look at the prices for the other modders:, $85 to replace datewheels, $50 for silicone in a CG, $200 for a normal lume, $50 to "oil" your movement without taking it apart...please, get real...where have you been.

Enough of wasting my time on someone like you, I have seen your type before...same MO and ethics...and excuses...and personality, and getting upset at me, for your failings.