cskent69 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I have a very good 1665 from MBK as well, already. The problem is that it does not have the working HE valve and it looks, well, fake. Everything else is great, tons of mods. But the dial still needs work and the HE valve. I know that a genuine 1680 can be shoehorned in with the proper mods - but I am not willing to spend any more money on this case. There has to be a way to get the NDT case without this kind of markup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Does anyone actually own one of these - can't remember who said that he ordered one. I will look back through the thread. If you do own one of these - could you poast some close up pictures? The ones at NDT are not the best for our prying eyes. In particular for me - I was wondering if the HE value is "working". Would also love to see a picture of the great White caseback (versus the double red). Anyone have pics? I own two, one with DRSD caseback and other with GW. Both have "working" HEV... hope this pics helps (all pictures shown are from Phong cases): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 and comex caseback as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Phong's cases are undeniably the most accurate I have seen (in spite of the oddly shiny appearance of the steel, which I have only seen on these Vietnamese cases) & I still think they are a rip-off at anything above $600 (assuming that $600 includes a gen crown/tube, insert & crystal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 torresp - holy cow! You are the man. Thanks for the pics - now I want that great white case even worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW - where did that great white dial come from? Looks gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 torresp - holy cow! You are the man. Thanks for the pics - now I want that great white case even worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW - where did that great white dial come from? Looks gen. Yep, dial is gen, as well as hands and insert... in fact the whole watch is gen except the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 For $600 we should be able to get cases made in the United States. If I had a machine shop I would be doing it right now. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yep, dial is gen, as well as hands and insert... in fact the whole watch is gen except the case Very nice. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Phong's cases are undeniably the most accurate I have seen (in spite of the oddly shiny appearance of the steel, which I have only seen on these Vietnamese cases) & I still think they are a rip-off at anything above $600 (assuming that $600 includes a gen crown/tube, insert & crystal). Freddy, regarding the shine of the steel, isn't that one of the distinguishing features between the gens and reps? I would've thought the vietnamese cases with their more distinct shine is probably closer to the different grade of steel that Rolex uses. The difference in appearance between the gen and rep 'steel' is one of the reasons I think the bracelet 'upgrade' is worth it, as well as the finish. I agree about the price issue. Anything about $500 isn't worth it. At the same time, I found it interesting that if I considered that basically use the MBK 'cases' exclusively anyways, not using any of the standard parts when it's all said and done. I guess I still use the ETA movement, even if they're swapped out for slower-beat ones, etc.. I see a very steep price/value curve working if you start to consider genuine movements. My consideration is that anything you can 'see' stays within the range of replicas, and the price trade off is not worth it, IMO. I would be interested in doing an Explorer based on a vietnamese case, but the gen parts I think it would require to be good would make spending a huge amount on the case or a gen movement unrealistic. However, other than the bezel and the dial, the rest of the watch could be done without a huge premium on parts...which is a hugely relative statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Check this out - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...rksid=p3907.m29 If you consider that this is way out of the ballpark of reasonable prices - and just cut it is half - then you still end up at $8,500 and it does not even have the silver datewheel. If the NDT case is really that close - then it would seem worth the $600 price. We are all a strange lot because we know that it can really be done for <500 easily. In fact - i would not even be interested in this is if the MBW case had a "working " and better looking HE valve - which we all know if about only $400 for the entire watch. I hope that someone gets a line on these cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togasa Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Freddy, regarding the shine of the steel, isn't that one of the distinguishing features between the gens and reps? I would've thought the vietnamese cases with their more distinct shine is probably closer to the different grade of steel that Rolex uses. The difference in appearance between the gen and rep 'steel' is one of the reasons I think the bracelet 'upgrade' is worth it, as well as the finish. I agree about the price issue. Anything about $500 isn't worth it. At the same time, I found it interesting that if I considered that basically use the MBK 'cases' exclusively anyways, not using any of the standard parts when it's all said and done. I guess I still use the ETA movement, even if they're swapped out for slower-beat ones, etc.. I see a very steep price/value curve working if you start to consider genuine movements. My consideration is that anything you can 'see' stays within the range of replicas, and the price trade off is not worth it, IMO. I would be interested in doing an Explorer based on a vietnamese case, but the gen parts I think it would require to be good would make spending a huge amount on the case or a gen movement unrealistic. However, other than the bezel and the dial, the rest of the watch could be done without a huge premium on parts...which is a hugely relative statement. ---- i am not supporting the viet cases but when i compared gen case of the same era (1675) and viet 1655, the case material looked identical. they also claim the cases are made of the same grade steel (316L?). I know recent rolex upped the grade to 400-something-L (rolex even forge the steel in their factory, i've seen pic of their tiny furnace, haha). However, various aftermarket bracelets and chinese reps with ETA cases i've seen do seem to be made out of different grade steel. some "pro" said that one of the cases highly discussed in this forum (for its accuracy to gen) is made of scrap metals (don't quote me, i don't even know how this pro determined this. super microscope??) just sharing my opinion/what i heard. others may have different opinions/observations/experiences/info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Interesting stuff, I'm going to respond more thoroughly in a bit, but here's a pic of the helium valve of the watch linked to by cskent, certainly night-and-day compared to the MBW stock engraved He valve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarini Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yep that sure looks good there mezz ... huge difference IMHO . regards Laz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Interesting stuff, I'm going to respond more thoroughly in a bit, but here's a pic of the helium valve of the watch linked to by cskent, certainly night-and-day compared to the MBW stock engraved He valve: But the dial of that watch is not top...for 17.000$ Looks like a NDT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Freddy, regarding the shine of the steel, isn't that one of the distinguishing features between the gens and reps? I would've thought the vietnamese cases with their more distinct shine is probably closer to the different grade of steel that Rolex uses. The difference in appearance between the gen and rep 'steel' is one of the reasons I think the bracelet 'upgrade' is worth it, as well as the finish. With the exception of a Vietnamese DRSD caseback (which was a work of art), I have never seen a complete Vietnamese case in person & I am based my comment only on the dozen or so pictures I have seen of them. But they all appear to have the same bright shine that I do not see in vintage (prior to 1990) gen Subs or Seadwellers, which used 316L steel as opposed to the current models' 904L. On the other hand, I see very little difference between the steel used in MBWs & vintage gen Subs & Seadwellers. I would be interested in doing an Explorer based on a vietnamese case, but the gen parts I think it would require to be good would make spending a huge amount on the case or a gen movement unrealistic. However, other than the bezel and the dial, the rest of the watch could be done without a huge premium on parts...which is a hugely relative statement. I think one can make a reasonable argument for spending $2,000-$4,000 on a franken copy of a $20,000+ gen watch, but I am not so sure it makes as much sense to spend $1,000+ on a franken copy of an Explorer when you can pick them up for as little as $2,000 (& I have seen them go as low as $1,500 without the bracelet). Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 But the dial of that watch is not top...for 17.000$ Looks like a NDT Stephane - I have to disagree with you. The dial in that ebay watch looks absolutely correct (gen) to me. The only reservation I have is about the case & that is only because of the location of HEV valve. The HEV on most (not all) gen 1665s is slightly above the vertical equator on the side of the case. This, for me, is what makes the Vietnamese cases special - they got the HEV location exactly correct. The MBW cases place the HEV engraving pretty much dead in the vertical center of the side of the case, which, while not absolutely wrong, seems to be fairly rare in gen cases. Here is my MBW DRSD with a working HEV. I installed it just a hair above the centerline (because of the construction of the case, it was difficult to go any higher) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Freddy, I understand and agree about the case. I say that the dial looks weird to me because of the 6 and 9 markers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmythree Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 quote = Interesting stuff, I'm going to respond more thoroughly in a bit, but here's a pic of the helium valve of the watch linked to by cskent, certainly night-and-day compared to the MBW stock engraved He valve: /quote I have a 5514/comex like 'Paul' sold about 3 years ago with a working escape valve and it has the '729' caseback that you still see now and then. The problem was that it did not have an inner bezel (the one that clamps the crystal to the case) and the rotating bezel was just pressed over the crystal. A genuine or aftmkt tropic 19 crystal fits the case just fine but since the watch did not have an inner bezel, I cemented the bezel to the case. I could have made an inner bezel and modified the rotating bezel but did not take the time to do it. He still shows the same watch for sale but it may have changed by now: http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...;products_id=43 Since most cases only need the crown guards modified and a few details sorted out (case tubes, crowns, crystals etc), it looks to me like a '729' etc case would be a lot less $$ than a $600 or $700 case. A friend had the same watch and iirc it had the proper bezel setup. Since the escape valve and leaf spring come in the '729' cases, you could find a case that suited you better and bore the case out to accept the valve and grind the inside out a bit for the leaf spring using the '729' case and valve for patterns. The escape valve hole is stepped (bigger close to the outside) but this can be worked out using a small mill bit. Since an O ring seals the valve against the step in the case, maybe the larger od part of the hole would be OK without finishing the step to a flat ledge. The work would have to be done in a milling machine or precision drill press with the case clamped solid to the table. You will need a lathe to make the valve and modify any round parts. As far as this goes, someone could make escape valves and bore cases for a lot less than the high $$ cases sell for. All you need are samples to make the parts from and cases that are close to spec. If someone (not me!) wanted to do this, a Sherline lathe with a milling machine (or Sherline lathe plus a milling machine frame and use the lathe motor on the milling machine). The milling machine will do the job and cost less $$ than a couple $700 cases would cost. Someone (not me!) could modify the cases and make the valves for maybe $100 a shot and pay for the machines in a short time. The leaf spring can be made out of a section of small clock mainspring etc and the valve can be made out of a small stainless steel nail or wire stock. The O rings would be easy to get from a watch material supply house. The hardest thing is cutting the stepped hole in the case and making cutter bits for the lathe. http://www.sherline.com/ As for the rolex 1570 fitting an eta case, I would not use a genuine movement in a fake case...it takes the fun out of it and defeats the purpose. I would just use a 21600 bph eta in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Freddy, I understand and agree about the case. I say that the dial looks weird to me because of the 6 and 9 markers... That's because that watch has a superluminova replacement dial, genuine but not the original... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I have a 5514/comex like 'Paul' sold about 3 years ago with a working escape valve and it has the '729' caseback that you still see now and then. Since most cases only need the crown guards modified and a few details sorted out (case tubes, crowns, crystals etc), it looks to me like a '729' etc case would be a lot less $$ than a $600 or $700 case. A friend had the same watch and iirc it had the proper bezel setup. Since the escape valve and leaf spring come in the '729' cases, you could find a case that suited you better and bore the case out to accept the valve and grind the inside out a bit for the leaf spring using the '729' case and valve for patterns. The escape valve hole is stepped (bigger close to the outside) but this can be worked out using a small mill bit. Since an O ring seals the valve against the step in the case, maybe the larger od part of the hole would be OK without finishing the step to a flat ledge. The work would have to be done in a milling machine or precision drill press with the case clamped solid to the table. You will need a lathe to make the valve and modify any round parts. Modded 729 here & HEV tutorial here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmythree Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 "Modded 729 here & HEV tutorial here. " Thanks! J3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togasa Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 oh btw --- one clarification about RSC cert. comment i made earlier.... it was on a sub, not SD. i heard 3 of them got cert, while 3 others (at least) didn't..... good luck gents! oh btw --- one clarification about RSC cert. comment i made earlier.... it was on a sub, not SD. i heard 3 of them got cert, while 3 others (at least) didn't..... good luck gents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 The availability of the vietnam cases is not huge and the quality is always an issue... they have to be handpicked by someone who knowns what to look for!! But if this can be done, i'm interested of course... a 5513 case has my preference I am interested in a 5513 case also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klingsor Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 i'm interested in 5513 ..5510 6538... all that is possible with a high quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Hey - just to keep this topic alive - please check out the following from the ND site. He is asking $1050 He posted these April 1, 2008. http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?mai...products_id=112 Would still love to get this for about half of the ND cost. Can anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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