italiano17771 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 so tempting... http://www.timeshops.net/Big_Bang_Luna_Ros...l)_1136-286.htm if it had the pvd bezel, i would be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 The point is that there are two factories, the factories control the prices, not the dealers. Dealers have some say on the price, by what mark ups they charge. Don't believe that for a second, the dealers are getting big margins from this watch. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I know for a fact it's available with a PVD bezel. You can ask him to track it down or he might even upload it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jot9011 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 There was mention that the low beat and high beat A7750 have different cases. Does anyone know if there are significant differences as far as fit and finish between the two? Has anyone heard back from Watchmark regarding the size (42 or 44mm)? I want to believe he was using the bezel size (which is correct at 42mm) for a measurement. These prices are easier to swallow though. $1000+ is just crazy for an A7750!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 It seems that different cases is mainly the difference in the caseback engraving (deeper on the 2nd type). And I have the same feeling as you : the 42mm are probably a difference in where the case is measured. Let's wait a confirmation from Watchmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italiano17771 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 i thought the 2nd factory used the 1st factory hbb to disect and rep. im pretty sure the size is the same... some dealers measure different, but in the end its the same size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 400 USD 1058 USD I think one can make a small effort regarding "flaws" to save 600 bucks. I still have one doubt : is the first one real ceramic or not... I would not be surpised to see these cheaper models appear on other collectors website or... to see the model1 drastically decreased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Don't believe that for a second, the dealers are getting big margins from this watch. Ken I thought that was what I said? Factory sets price, dealer adds mark up, just it seems this dealer is adding less mark up... We can all agree that over $1100 for an Asian watch is just nuts, but people are buying them still! I have seen whole collections of HBB's on the other forums. Must have cost a fortune, certainly a couple of nice genuine watches worth anyway...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 The "MYTH" or Misconception that a Asian 7750 21.6K slow beat model is "crappy" is just that - a misconception and incorrect. I say this from hands on experience with the actual movements. Both the 21.6k and 28.8k Asian 7750's have problems and issues as delivered. What was a weak point on the 21.6k model has been corrected on the 28.8k movement, but what was a strong point on the 21.6k model - has become a weak one on the 28.8k model. So they both have flaws, but one is considered "good" and the other "crap"?? The older 21.6k Asian 7750 got a bad rap and continues to have this bad rap, quite undeservingly I think. I have a 3 year old 188, it has a 21.6k A7750 in it, it's been worn often and stored on a winder when not in use. It has continued to work perfect for the past 3 years, keeps as good timing as my ETA or Tudor 7750's when on the winder. The Asian 7750 that is shown in the high end model with the engravings for $1000, is nothing new or special. I have seen these for a number of months now, and they, like all Asian 7750's have problems. The fancy engraving doesn't fix the design flaws and weak points. Not one A7750 I have taken apart was serviced correctly or didn't have something I had to fix or repair to ensure long term reliability for the customer. That doesnt' mean that I dont' get the odd A7750 sent back to me for warranty, all the servicing in the world is not going to fix design or parts quality issues. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Dear The Zigmeister, thx for this information which makes me somehow feel a bit better with the 2 I own. Which I still don't exactly know, and would like to learn is : what is the weak point in the low beat and the weak point in the high beat (appart from the lack of servicing). Is it a myth or a fact that the old 7750 can be swapped more easily with a gen ETA 7750 ? Is it also true that the regulator on the low beat is not functionnal (I think I read that from you, not sure) ? An other thing I have difficulties to understand : many of us (at least I) thought that the low beat disappeared, replaced by an improved version (the high beat) : why do we suddendly have a mix again ? New old stock can't explain that, as it can't last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 what is the weak point in the low beat and the weak point in the high beat (appart from the lack of servicing). Old A7750 21.6k weak points: Dirty Needs servicing Fine regulator doesn't work Cannon pin gear loose not enough friction Hairsprings can be out of round and not concentric (even spacing between all the coils) Finish of the movement poor, it doesn't look nice New A7750 28.8k weak points: Mainspring and barrel and winding gear soaked in silicone type of oil/grease Pallet stones loose Pallet stones not positioned correctly, not enough engagement into the escape wheel causing running problems Cannon pin gear loose and not enough friction Is it a myth or a fact that the old 7750 can be swapped more easily with a gen ETA 7750 ? Is it also true that the regulator on the low beat is not functionnal (I think I read that from you, not sure) ? The old 7750 has the same subdial and chrono hand sizes (the hour and minute hands are the same size on all models). So if you want to install a ETA, having the older 21.6k model is straight forward. The new 7750 has different hand sizes than the ETA, the subdial and choro ones are all 0.20mm, so you need to make the subdial ones fit the ETA (0.17mm on the ETA) and you need to make the center seconds fit as well (0.25mm on the ETA). BUT, I have been seeing many new A7750's that have old and new part on them...so it's anybody's guess what you will get. I have seen at least 5 or more different versions of the new 7750 alone...they are all different... An other thing I have difficulties to understand : many of us (at least I) thought that the low beat disappeared, replaced by an improved version (the high beat) : why do we suddendly have a mix again ? New old stock can't explain that, as it can't last. It is a mix of new and old parts, some of the new ones have 0.17mm subdial sizes, and 0.20 seconds hand size, others are all 0.20mm size, some have old bridges with the crappy finish, others have the new ones, some have no fine regulator on the balance, some have a fine regulator, etc...it's all over the place. But the problems are the same on all models... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I thought that was what I said? Factory sets price, dealer adds mark up, just it seems this dealer is adding less mark up... The dealers aren't buying them from the factories. Factories have high MOQ and so you need buying power to buy from them. Factories won't sell one watch at a time, thats a FACT, they only deal with big players (unless your best friends with the factory owner). Factories sell to wholesalers who purchase the reps in high numbers, and the wholesalers in turn sell to retailers who set up market stalls such as the kind you find in the Guangzhou watch market. The dealers here are either: 1) Purchasing the reps from the market sellers, much like we would at any local market and getting them at whatever the true cost is in China (which to us is very cheap). However we couldn't get them at those prices because we're Westerners and we'll get overcharged. They then slap on their mark-up and sell via their website. 2) They're big enough to deal with the wholesalers directly, who also command MOQ's, so they're able to get them even cheaper than the already cheap prices the market vendors sell for. Factory owners don't make their money via high mark-ups per watch, they make their money on volume. The largest factories are probably selling thousands a week (and it could be even more) so they don't have time to deal with people like us who are looking for the highest quality and close-to-gen reps. This is where the board dealers coming in, they learn from us what our demands are, and they sell reps to us that try their best to meet our demands, but that kind of fussiness costs us Thats the reason why they notify us whenever they change URL or any other changes, it's because we do indeed make up a large part of their client base. People like us are the only ones they can sell a HBB Ceramic bezel for $1000+, if they tried that with some in China they'll get the middle finger.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vric Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Thanks The Zigmeister for the great explanation. Quick question; the Pallet looks to be the biggest problem of the new version (beside the bad oiling) Is it possible to swap it with ETA part or you have to fix it ? if so, how ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 The Zigmeister, thanks so much for sumarizing this and answering all my questions and doubts in one time I have to pin this thread somewhere ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Thanks Ziggy for the great explanation. Quick question; the Pallet looks to be the biggest problem of the new version (beside the bad oiling) Is it possible to swap it with ETA part or you have to fix it ? if so, how ? ETA does not fit, actually most of the ETA parts don't fit the Asian 7750. @ Pix your welcome, hopefully this helps clear up the myth's around the A7750's... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmark Posted April 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Dear DemonSlayer Yes. your are right... Of Cause i am not factory. that is impossible... i am only a very very small retail local seller on guangzhou watch market...i am very very luck to meet PIX.Ron...and Many good friend here and all RWG member. i think this is will be change my life. i want to learn from all of yours. include seller and buyer. i don't want very huge profit on replica watch..because i know replica watch quality not good as real watch. and i always tell my buyer the true of our china replica watch. good is good. bad is bad. i can not make lie.. that is why i also don't want selling too high price for replica watch due to replica watch quality... Dear The Zigmeister yes. you said is very exact and correct. you are very professional buyer/seller. i think i will tell factory wholesalers about this problem. i wish factory can make correction in this later. thank you very much for your kindly advice. regards mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Watchmark, I think you misunderstood my post, but English isn't your first language so it's completely understandable What I was merely saying is that dealers here on RWG are not dealing directly with the factories, but either purchasing from people such as yourself (a market retailer) or wholesalers. I would also like to thank you for offering better and more importantly FAIRER pricing on the HBB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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