Obsessed with my 104.

[mjmurphy926]

So, I have Andrew's "Best" 104 and love it. It's all I wear these days. There are some things about it though, that kind of bother me.

Interested in feedback.

First of all, The most common negative comment I hear about this rep is the placement of the "L SWISS MADE L" printing in that it touches the "6". This doesn't bother me. Mine doesn't actually touch the 6, although it is pretty close, but so is the below GEN example:

Mine:

GEN:

I also like the CGs, crown (not too bad anyway), date font and mag, crystal and AR, and the overall look and feel of the case on my Andrew rep:

My rep:

My rep:

My rep:

There are a couple of things that really bug me about my rep. The first thing is that the seconds subdial appears to be recessed and the same finish as the rest of the dial on the GEN. On mine, it is flush with machining (a ring cut in) to make it appear to be recessed. it also has concentric rings machined in it. I don't believe this is correct for the 104 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The DSN dial seems to get this right.

Here is a close up of my rep dial:

GEN:

DSN:

The other thing that I'm not sure about is the shape of the case. Mine appears to be a little more "round" (not quite as square) than the GEN. It's hard to tell if there is really a difference from these pictures, or if it is an illusion due to different lighting. I can't tell for sure if DSN's is any better than mine.

Mine:

GEN:

I have considered buying the DSN, but I'm a little concerned with the lack of QC he has been demonstrating lately. I have also considered buying his dial only and doing a swap.

Any thoughts and/or recommendations?

Thanks,

Mike

Edited May 16, 2008 by mjmurphy926

[TeeJay]

At the end of the day, it comes down to what flaws you can live with, and what you can't...

The 104 I got from an iOffer dealer had the concentric circles in the sub-dial, but, I absolutely loved them, even if they weren't accurate to the gen. I had issues with the dial printing, where some letters were fainter than others, and, to be honest, made the watch look like 'factory seconds', but, I really liked it. I only sent it back because it leaked, and am hoping for a replacement ofthe same quality (if not better )

Best of luck with your decision

[StormTooper4]

MJM

Sorry but this has made me chuckle, funny how the details seem to draw us in.

Before I saw the pictures I was like"Oh dear no recessed seconds!!" And granted it is not as deep on yours but its no means missing of flat like a 111.

My advise would be get another PAM just save you money your 104 looks pretty good on that strap.

Why don't you get DSN's new 240 and get one of his Dials for your 104.

It may or May fit without modifications. I've a feeling you'll be lucky.

What ever you do as you'll know you can never have enough Pams

ST

[red]

With the exception of DSN's QC I am always skeptical of the date font. DSN never takes a good picture of the date font with magnification, this makes me a little worried. BTW your date font looks pretty good though.

[StormTooper4]

With the exception of DSN's QC I am always skeptical of the date font. DSN never takes a good picture of the date font with magnification, this makes me a little worried. BTW your date font looks pretty good though.

Agree the Font is good, but DSN's is not "all" that bad IMHO

[cib0rgman]

Does DSN has a website???

Now that I am done with my 1665 Project I new to start a new one

Thanks

[poopypants]

whats going on with the mounting points of your hands... they "look" all ding'd up..

[Guest porsche356a]

Either way, DSN, JOSH, ANDREW or even ANGUS, they all look passable. Enjoy them boys!

[sssurfer]

I confirm: gen subdial is recessed, but no concentric rings.

There are both gen 104 with the "L swiss made L" text well below the "6" number, or close to it.

Just, the latter ones are rarer, and the numbers on the caseback are different from Andrew's.

The shape of your case looks good to me.

If you want an almost perfect 104 get a DSN dial and caseback, a Lello's datewheel, and a better crown.

Just be advised about the short mark @ 9Hr on the DSN dial (it should be an easy fix by a relumer).

Unsure about the fit of a DSN caseback on a non-DSN case though.

[Chuan]

Mine:

Agree the Font is good, but DSN's is not "all" that bad IMHO

Pardon the noob question here. Mike's date and mag looks really good, i mean i can actually read the date without any difficult at all! Whereas if i look at DSN's date, they look a tad small and i get the feeling that one might have some difficulty reading the date out in the sun. Is that the case?

[StormTooper4]

Pardon the noob question here. Mike's date and mag looks really good, i mean i can actually read the date without any difficult at all! Whereas if i look at DSN's date, they look a tad small and i get the feeling that one might have some difficulty reading the date out in the sun. Is that the case?

Have yet to see the two versions side by side so cannot comment fully

My poor Photographics skill don't help

Each to his own I guess, This is the first DATE Pam I've had, guess its a toss up between Recessed seconds and Nice 6 L Swiss made L spacing or Date Font

[red]

Thanks for the pic Stormtrooper. How is the magnification? I agree that DSN's font has improved dramatically, however the magnification does not seem adequate. I know I have brought this to sssurfer, but hope you can give us your opinion.

[StormTooper4]

Thanks for the pic Stormtrooper. How is the magnification? I agree that DSN's font has improved dramatically, however the magnification does not seem adequate. I know I have brought this to sssurfer, but hope you can give us your opinion.

I really have nothing to compare my DSN with apart from the pictures. I find its good enough for me. If I ever get in to a position where its up against a GEN , I might have more of an issue.

But for $280 DSN's watch IMHO is great Value, the power reserve seems never ending to boot

EDIT (SORRY to use my 229 as an example in a 104 thread but as DSN released the 2 together I thought I'd chip in with my 2 cents)

[mjmurphy926]

I really have nothing to compare my DSN with apart from the pictures. I find its good enough for me. If I ever get in to a position where its up against a GEN , I might have more of an issue.

But for $280 DSN's watch IMHO is great Value, the power reserve seems never ending to boot

EDIT (SORRY to use my 229 as an example in a 104 thread but as DSN released the 2 together I thought I'd chip in with my 2 cents)

No need to be sorry Stormtrooper. I appreciate the input. I think the discussion pertains to your 229, as well.

I was ready to buy DSN's dial and try to fit it into my watch, but just for fun, I think I'll order the whole thing and see just how interchangeable the parts are. If they are interchangeable, I'll probably attempt to build 1 "ultimate" watch from the 2. If they aren't, I'll probably keep my favorite and sell the other.

BTW. I'm very happy with my watch too, I just can't get over the subdial...

Thanks to all for the input.

Mike

[Chuan]

No need to be sorry Stormtrooper. I appreciate the input. I think the discussion pertains to your 229, as well.

I was ready to buy DSN's dial and try to fit it into my watch, but just for fun, I think I'll order the whole thing and see just how interchangeable the parts are. If they are interchangeable, I'll probably attempt to build 1 "ultimate" watch from the 2. If they aren't, I'll probably keep my favorite and sell the other.

BTW. I'm very happy with my watch too, I just can't get over the subdial...

Thanks to all for the input.

Mike

Thanks for the help Stormtrooper. I appreciate it. I was and probably still am a little stuck on getting models with a date function because i have a Pam 90 (crappy low cost rep i must add) which the date is almost non readable. For me, it doesn't matter if the mag is similar to the gen, what is important is that the mag is big enough to make the date easily readable. Thanks to everyone for their comments too.

Chuan

[omni]

Hopes this helps in your discussions here. I think you needed some closeups of a gen 104 for comparison, I tried to get similar angles as your photos. Sorry for the reflections, just couldn't get the right angle tonight.

@mjmurphy926, your case looks fine, date font looks close and mag very good, of course the concentric rings are something you will have to live with unless you change the dial. That DSN dial looks mighty close to the gen. so your plan to combine the two if the parts fit seems like the way to go.

Regards.

[StormTooper4]

Nice Photos and even nicer watch

ST

[mjmurphy926]

Hopes this helps in your discussions here. I think you needed some closeups of a gen 104 for comparison, I tried to get similar angles as your photos. Sorry for the reflections, just couldn't get the right angle tonight.

@mjmurphy926, your case looks fine, date font looks close and mag very good, of course the concentric rings are something you will have to live with unless you change the dial. That DSN dial looks mighty close to the gen. so your plan to combine the two if the parts fit seems like the way to go.

Regards.

Wow, Thnaks Omni...Some actual gen shots to compare with...Great.

I'm pretty sure if I bought a gen, it would also be the 104. It has the traditional PAM look with the practicality of auto winding and date. For me, the perfect watch.

Thanks again,

Mike

[sssurfer]

I could see pics of the DSN date better than those shown on his album, and I find them almost identical to the date of the "ultimate" non-DSN 104.

i have a Pam 90 (crappy low cost rep i must add) which the date is almost non readable.

Do you like this one?

Apart from jokes, I would not be so critic with the poor 090. Surely its date font is worse than a gen, but its readability is not so bad in the end -- thanks to a decent cyclops and even an additional subsidiary small lens embedded in the date window, 2892-like.

Of all the so-called "Asian auto" PAMs, the 090 is the one with the best date in my humble opinion.

(w/ apologies for having gone off-topic)

[PatrickD]

So, I have Andrew's "Best" 104 and love it. It's all I wear these days. There are some things about it though, that kind of bother me.

Interested in feedback.

First of all, The most common negative comment I hear about this rep is the placement of the "L SWISS MADE L" printing in that it touches the "6". This doesn't bother me. Mine doesn't actually touch the 6, although it is pretty close, but so is the below GEN example:

Mine:

GEN:

I also like the CGs, crown (not too bad anyway), date font and mag, crystal and AR, and the overall look and feel of the case on my Andrew rep:

My rep:

My rep:

My rep:

There are a couple of things that really bug me about my rep. The first thing is that the seconds subdial appears to be recessed and the same finish as the rest of the dial on the GEN. On mine, it is flush with machining (a ring cut in) to make it appear to be recessed. it also has concentric rings machined in it. I don't believe this is correct for the 104 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The DSN dial seems to get this right.

Here is a close up of my rep dial:

GEN:

DSN:

The other thing that I'm not sure about is the shape of the case. Mine appears to be a little more "round" (not quite as square) than the GEN. It's hard to tell if there is really a difference from these pictures, or if it is an illusion due to different lighting. I can't tell for sure if DSN's is any better than mine.

Mine:

GEN:

I have considered buying the DSN, but I'm a little concerned with the lack of QC he has been demonstrating lately. I have also considered buying his dial only and doing a swap.

Any thoughts and/or recommendations?

Thanks,

Mike

The issue, at least with the "new version" of DSN 104, is that buyers are not receiving what is pictured on his web site.

Poor QC has led to many postings about the sloppy rep received.

Mine had a faulty crown mechanism which made it impossible to set the date or time.

It's currently with Vacuum getting a thicker crown and, hopefully correcting the stem problem.

[cib0rgman]

can someone PM me DSN website URL

Thanks

[Chuan]

I could see pics of the DSN date better than those shown on his album, and I find them almost identical to the date of the "ultimate" non-DSN 104.

Do you like this one?

Apart from jokes, I would not be so critic with the poor 090. Surely its date font is worse than a gen, but its readability is not so bad in the end -- thanks to a decent cyclops and even an additional subsidiary small lens embedded in the date window, 2892-like.

Of all the so-called "Asian auto" PAMs, the 090 is the one with the best date in my humble opinion.

(w/ apologies for having gone off-topic)

Hahaha.... not till you've seen mine. I bought this before i started reading up on geek or rwg. The cyclops mag is bad, the date wheel is very recessed and there is not subsidiary small lens or whatsoever. But having said all that, i still it almost evey other day simply because it keeps prefect time and to the non panerai people, it looks as real as it gets.

I bought i for 60 bucks, so.... ahahhaa

[sssurfer]

@Chuan: I see your point.

Oh well, if the date is very recessed then you have clearance enough to put an overlay on it at least.

@ciborgman: DSN has no website, just a section here and a photo album. Contacts are via email.

[Chuan]

@Chuan: I see your point.

Oh well, if the date is very recessed then you have clearance enough to put an overlay on it at least.

I'm thinking of embarking on my first project to 'improve' the watch. What is the overlay you talking about?

[sssurfer]

I got the overlay for my 090 from archibald, he is the only one who made them (thanks once again, J.!)

Unsure if he is still making them, though.

You may try and make your own overlay as well, even if not at archibald's level as he used a special hi-res, 4-colors printer, as well as special stickers and cutting tools.

What you need is a good printer, thin but bright white paper, and a scan (or, even better, a vectorial file) of a gen datewheel.

If you are interested I can send you a scan of the datewheel -- a normal .bmp file, not a vectorial file, sorry -- and the exact size you should print it.

In consideration of how bad is your datewheel, even such a homemade overlay might make for an improvement in the end.

(mjmurphy, pls forgive this thread hijacking)