Unrest amongst dealers

[Ztech]

Has anyone be following the Unrest thats up and running on the Darkside??

intersting times,,,, its getting pretty heated over there

ST4... care to give us a cliffnotes version of what's going on over there?

[rocket754]

ST4... care to give us a cliffnotes version of what's going on over there?

http://www.replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewt...p;sk=t&sd=a

just accusations of price fixing and inventory control..... you can read and draw your own conclusions

[StormTooper4]

ST4... care to give us a cliffnotes version of what's going on over there?

further unrest On the darkside

[Dizzy]

Its basicly that a couple of big dealers are being accused of price fixing and threatening smaller dealers to sell at certain prices or they will get cut off from the factories.. These are our "trusted dealers" so what are we going to do with them??!!.... You know the usual boring stuff ... This will affect RWI as well as RWG and RG.

You'll have to go over and check it out.. i've said too much already..

dizz

[ajoesmith]

Just read it all

not sure what to think

[Dizzy]

As long as everyone reads it, thats all i ask... everyone needs to see the facts, and make their own decision. This could affect you guys over here too in the long run. theres a couple of threads over there as well as a poll. The members poll will be one of many decieding factors regarding the course of action we'll take next.

I'm not gunna post any links right now, but im sure you guys can find it fast... i dont want to get in too much trouble for talking about this over here

[trailboss99]

Thats true, but this doesn't seem to be about pricing. It seems that Angus is purposely trying to sabotage J&As sales efforts. Price decreases are simply a retaliation.

Lets not forget there are 3 main forums out there

RWG, RGeek and RWI

these 3 keep them in business!

As long as everyone reads it, thats all i ask... everyone needs to see the facts, and make their own decision. This could affect you guys over here too in the long run. theres a couple of threads over there as well as a poll. The members poll will be one of many decieding factors regarding the course of action we'll take next.

I'm not gunna post any links right now, but im sure you guys can find it fast... i dont want to get in too much trouble for talking about this over here

OK, for those of you who don't know me I have been active at "The old forum" For a few months and in that time have done a hell of a lot of reading and surfing on the topic of my new hobby and have read up extensivly on both RWG1 (the "old forum") and The Dark Side on the pros and cons of various dealers. Here's a few thoughts on all this as I see it.

andreww: As far as I can gather the two watches (V1 and V2) are from different makers. From waht I have learnt there are many seperate, small factories makeing our toys. It is wrong to asume its only a handfull of large operators. The maker used by Angus simply beat the one that "Jandrew" is buying from to the market by a few days. The price difference is simply a different value put opon a product by a different maker. How does Angus beating Jandrew to market with a simerlar product from a diferent source by a few days at a lower price point turn into sabotage of J&As sales efforts?

Shurly thats just healthy competion. If anything Jandrew then sourceing the cheaper product and undercuting Angus's price is a more provocitve move. In either case it just looks like the normal flow of healthy competition to me.

On the subject of our importance: Our dealers are relitivly small fish in a big sea. Some may be closer to tuna than minnows but there are no great whits among them. Thats the preserve of the likes of Best Swiss et al. Google "replica watches" and see how many of our dealers come up. The first few pages will almost mirror Fakeys scam daeler list. Go to Firetrusts list of chinese scams (The definitve list of CN scam and counterfiet web sellers) and most of our dealers don't even rate a mention.

As far as our dealers go the first tier appears to consist mostly of the "cartel" dealers followed by the likes of HOS, Ruby and Angus ect. The point to rember is their all good folk compared to the big fish. They all give a mesure of customer service, they (mostly) provide a reasonably accurate description of the goods offered and sell at a fair price. That puts all of them well above the level of the real top tier in price, value and service but they are not big dealers. They rely not on tens of thousands of customers buying one, maybe two overpriced watches from them instead the get their trade from the dedicated hobiest, US! We come to them two ways, the peeps who but a few watches from the top tier dealers and gain intrest further than a cpl of "nice watches" and thru research find these forums and those who do their reasearch first and don't get stung at all/ This also explains the two types on these boards, the dedicated ones in for the long haul (prob most reading this) and those whp hang arround long enough to get advice on where to buy the one or two watches they want and them dissaper for ever.They rely on the fact that a lot of us will buy many, many watches over a oeriod of years rather than one or two at inflated prices. Therefor they have to look after us if they wish to stay afloat. In this trade, like most, the smaller you are the more you rely on repeat buyers and the beter your customer service must be to keep clients happy. We are their base! any "stumble in" sales are just cream on the bread and butter (us).

However: this does not meen they exist to serve us, just to service us. Try to remember this. They exist to service us but serve themselvs. This is how it should be. They do this to make a living after all.

I belive however that we do have a reasonable amount of influnce with our dealers and should not be afraid of wheeling it if the situtation dictates. Don't belive me? Even scam dealers will reply on these forums and try to appear "nice" if a complaint is raised here. I have seen many examples of this, usualy shot down PDQ in grand style in a manor befiting their status but the fact they even try shows our influnce. After all, the only other hits on those first few pages of a Google search other than the top tier "scam" dealers (or their equaly scam "review" sites) are from the leading forums. Anyone doing ant serious reaserch before pulling the trigger will find us.

Forums: three??? come on guys. there's four: RG, RWI. RWG1 and RWG2. Forgeting your roots?

The debate at The Dark Side: Just who do yopu guys think you are? How can this be proven one way or the other? Its he said/she said and the only ones who know the truth are the two dealers involved. There has been no hard evidence produced either way and its all just hearsay and is not a fitting topic for public disertation. The only poll logicly possible on this should read "Who do you belive" 'cause thats what it comes down to on the evidence presented. No compent judge would retire a jury on the evidence presented so far so why should we? Were talking peeps livlyhood here.

Let the buyers vote with their dollars and may the beter dealer win. If Radio shack brought out a new new sub base only to be beaten in price by Sharper Image would we call an inquistion? I think not.

Our dealers are companies competing for our trade. not dueling protected species. Can you but an iphone from any mobile reseller? No, Apple deal with selected resellers in a particular market, thats how it goes and we accept it. Why should we expect anything more from what is basicly a pirate/underground trade? Calling for fair play in an industry thats on the wrong side of the law and arguably imoral/unethical is way left field in the first place. Almost everybody has commited a criminal act by buying reps so who are we to judge? The main point however is that

There is no proof one way or the other so how can we/you make a judgement? Plus, Competion is GOOD!

Ok, enough from me, discuss.

Regards,

Col.

PS: A note on loyalitys: I don't have any. So far I have only bought from Josh and intent to buy next from either Ruby (Navi) , Silax (Rado Jubilee) or Eurotimez (TT noobmariner,blue dial) and am willing to buy from any of our "trusted dealers" if they have what I want at the price/quality point I want. That's the free market in action.

PPS: This is prob far to long and oppinionated a post for a first on these forums but I felt I had somthing to say so I said it, THATS free speach in action.

[Guest Mr Jones]

Did we have price fixing ? ..... I think YES.

Look what happen now with 'ultimate' Hublot prices drop down around 50% in our dealers, maybe I don't 'know' actul news about exchange rate of USD, this is maybe reason this prices go down but I don't forget that we have now new all ceramic models on market with 'old' ultimate prices level.

[jot9011]

Did we have price fixing ? ..... I think YES.

Look what happen now with 'ultimate' Hublot prices drop down around 50% in our dealers, maybe I don't 'know' actul news about exchange rate of USD, this is maybe reason this prices go down but I don't forget that we have now new all ceramic models on market with 'old' ultimate prices level.

???? Prices for the new Hublots look as outrageously high as ever? Where are you seeing a 50% price reduction?

[robertk]

What's so funny is that everyone on the dark side is complaining about "price fixing". That's exactly how the Gen watchmakers operate. Every AD has to adhere to the price fix. When you think you've gotten a deal because they "discounted" it for you, that's part of the deal from the manufacturers. Try selling at lower prices and your toast.

Business as usual.

[Guest Carl]

I have read it all thank you.

I have taken my business elsewhere.

If you are spending 300 to 400 dollars US on a replica watch these days, you have gone from fun to somewhere else.

If you get a rep at this price and you are delighted, please post your success.

If you spend this much and don't get exactly what was promised, post that too.

If you had a problem and just got a bunch of argle-bargel from the dealer, post the whole episode.

I realize that the admission that you spent that much and just got some POC requires some painful honesty but just try to go on from there as I have.

I have had my own problems which I have reported and I hope that we can prevent some more.

Tell the truth as you can.

Carl

[Dizzy]

sure competition is healthy.. BUT when it results is prices going up and up and up, then theres something wrong. The issue here is one group of dealers THREATENING the smaller dealers by saying we're going to talk to the factory and have you cut off unless you raise your prices to a certain level. And yes we have proof.. some was published but most of the sensitative information was kept out of the public discussions. You guys can think whatever you want but our goal on RWI is to provide a safe place to hang out and enjoy our hobby. We have no interest in being associated with, nor endorsing dealers that act this way. Everything we do is to protect our members. We are a community of freinds and there is no need for people like that. Ever since this was brought out in the open we've seen some price drops on the new skyland and the Grahams and i know there will be more to come.

[windyzz]

I think it is still a healthy competition from what i look, don't you reckon RWI is doing to much to Josh and Andrew?

What happen if they both hold a grudge on us? who would have the disadvantage in the end ?

[doc savage]

This page contains the relevant information; read the seventh post from the top. I think a lot of people knew this stuff was going on, but seeing in black and white how a $100-$250 knockoff becomes a $400-$600+ "super rep" with prices fixed among dealers rubs a thinking man the wrong way.

A lot of people say "this is just how it's done" and even more say "I don't care if I'm getting reamed gimme some more super reps" but WE (the customers) are the ones with the power here, and we can put a stop to it.

An interesting point was made, if the forums are such a small percentage of their business then why go to so much trouble trying to force a forum-only dealer to raise prices?

[hk45ca]

I think it is still a healthy competition from what i look, don't you reckon RWI is doing to much to Josh and Andrew?

What happen if they both hold a grudge on us? who would have the disadvantage in the end ?

they would, we have the money and they want it. they have watches we can get from other sorces. it's simple really.

[StormTooper4]

Looks like votes are in at RWI and the board has made their choice , interesting times indeed.

ST4

[Dizzy]

Josh and Andrew have been removed from the sales section at RWI and removed as Trusted Dealers. Thankyou to everyone that helped us with our decision.

dizz

[Guest Mr Jones]

???? Prices for the new Hublots look as outrageously high as ever? Where are you seeing a 50% price reduction?

Look Hublot with all ceramic now around 900USD you can find, old ultimate version in smaller dealers go to 500USD level.

You can find now different Hublot models 'lite' with 250USD level. Look around not only cartel offers.

I buy my AllBlack with ceramic case VERY low price if I look at this 900USD price, only problem for me is white DW but I will exchange it to black one.

[RLudlowe]

Thats true, but this doesn't seem to be about pricing. It seems that Angus is purposely trying to sabotage J&As sales efforts. Price decreases are simply a retaliation.

I think Angus saw that another dealer beat him to market, so he responded with a lower price to try and grab some of the spotlight.

Seems a perfectly reasonable marketing tactic to me - Should he just sit by and let Josh and Andrew skim the cream?

I just hope this trend toward better reps at reasonable prices continues, and I hope my bank account holds out with $4 gas and $4/gal milk to buy as well.

[ExtraExtra]

they would, we have the money and they want it. they have watches we can get from other sorces. it's simple really.

It really is simple as that. In this forum and others, we scrutinize and tell the dealers what and how to improve the reps. They in turn, and we have seen this most recently, fix or update the reps. Is this free to do? Of course not.

Let us also not forget that we spend much more on modding - AR, DW, etc. The material and labor cost is on top of the rep cost and adding this together we see the that this can easily go near the $1K mark. If the dealer made all these mods and sold it close to $1K, I doubt that many would buy and there would be outcry.

Take a look at the new DW and double AR that now comes with the new reps. These gives one less reason to do anymore mods. Perhaps relume or cleaning would do.