Daytona4me Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 No, they repped it from several pics from internet hence all the terrible flaws in the past. The percentage in costs between gens-reps is still about the same since most brands have also raised the price of the gens. It's called inflation and a weak dollar... As Freddy and Kruzer already said, reps have never been better and more accurate than today. Forged from Gens... lol.. and they still manage to f**k them up on a daily basis.. I do not see the weak dollar in the whole issue as the prices quoted to me are in RMB and it has shot through the roof. @dluddy.. drama is over rated.. what we need.. is more cow bell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannou Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 The prices are out of control and they do not need to be. The reason is GREED.. nothing else.. And any of you who say that this is not really the case... I'll put my money where my mouth is and prove it to all of you. It is price fixing and greed. Want proof??? Stay tuned... Can't wait.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 @dluddy.. drama is over rated.. what we need.. is more cow bell.. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVbAuMr5eac (sorry to go off-topic, but I couldn't resist..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 @dluddy.. drama is over rated.. what we need.. is more cow bell.. Yes, I need more cow bell. LOL that was one of the best SNL EVER! Reps are getting too high for my budget. They are much better in quality and accuracy, but they are over priced. I have a limit and I have done good to stick to it, but it sucks to not get that new rep that I want. I have bought most of my reps of late from members on here. That is going to change soon as I feel the Skyland is a fair price and is under my self imposed spending limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Prices are up for gens as well; new and old! Everything is going up in price.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss99 Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Why is there this thery that it costs lots more to make a good rep than a bad one? Like somone said, the gen is reasembled and sold/added to makers own collection. If sold the loss may be a grand or so , absorbed over several thousand reps. The dealer markup has gone way beone the one to two hundred percent of the gen world in the higher range reps and I think profit is the main reason. Prices will continue to go up untill sales slow and stabilise there. Face it folks, a good rep is going to cost what the market will bear, no more, no less.Thats free enterprise in action whether we like it or not. Do you think the price of a box of breaky cereal bears any resembelence to what it costs to make? No. It is based on what folks will pay. Unfortunatly thats life in a capitalist system and China is catching on fast. Consumer demand regulates prices. Sad but true. Regards, Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Very good point. It doesn't matter what they cost. It matters what folks will pay. Try and tell your wife that she should not pay $100 for a face cream that costs $0.05. And we all know there are equally good products for 1/10th the price. Heck , half the time the patent protection has long since disappeared. And we call those "generics". One of the things that should tell you that we are not a large portion of the market (and we are not - just a convenient place for a few dealers on the forums to concentrate a slug of sales) is how watches do price out. It really is very sensible. The new Brietlings are not priced lower than some other recent new reps due to our efforts. Rather, manufacturers and dealers alike know that if you ask $700 for a rep of Breitling which can be bought for $2,000 you probably are not going to have a ton of sales. But ask the same amount for a $6,000 HBB and people will pile in. And I know that the factories vary their prices to the dealers with some common sense as well. In fact the best factories often have "suggested retail prices". And you know why? Because they can. No dealer is buying more than a fraction of what a factory intends to ultimately make of a particular product. Even when a dealer provides the gen (and the factories often do it themselves) the exclusive is often less than a month. And as a result the last thing they want is people underpricing their product. I know this is true at the top few factories. But we are the "idiots" who insist on buying that level of rep from those factories. Make no mistake, we have our own branded product. Now what we are all forgetting is that we can get reps of almost anything for $200 or less. We all are just too picky. It is your choice. Kind of like gens, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I just purchased three reps for about $100 each and they're pretty damn good. It's the new "complications" watches that are costing too much. We have a choice.......most reps on J&A are still reasonably priced, all things considered. Want the newest and best, pay the price. Want a terrific rep that is accurate but less in demand or been around awhile, we'll pay reasonable prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I just purchased three reps for about $100 each and they're pretty damn good. It's the new "complications" watches that are costing too much. We have a choice.......most reps on J&A are still reasonably priced, all things considered. Want the newest and best, pay the price. Want a terrific rep that is accurate but less in demand or been around awhile, we'll pay reasonable prices. Which brands/watches would you class in the 'complications' catagory? I only ask, as my wife's Crazy Hours was only $108 shipped, and I'd've thought that the unconventional movement action would class as a complication... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_brian_ Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 "It's pretty simple - If you don't like the price of certain new or resale models....Don't buy them rolleyes.gif If enough people stop buying, sellers (collectors or forum members) will adjust their prices to accomodate the market demand..." Agreed... One may not forget though that we are talking about high end reps which look really great. However I still do think that the prices are a bit too high because: 1. Even high end reps seem to have movement problems very often, 2. the risk is basically the same just like with reps in the lower price range, 3. sellers keep lying about swiss movements, 4. very poor standard of quality control and 5. there are fantastic gens from Citizen, Seiko, Casio, etc. for the price of a high end rep. You have warranty, no shipping risk and a reliable watch with high quality. Just my 0.02$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 35 Posts and that I have seen not one mention of currency translation. I agree that demand has had an effect as well as price manipulation by dealers. But last month the Yuan hit an ALL TIME HIGH against the U.S. dollar. The weak U.S. dollar is the single biggest cause in the rise of ALL import prices to the U.S. But to judge by this thread you would think it has nothing to do with the price of reps. Like it or not, as long as reps prices are denominated in dollars and the current administration's monetary policy does not change, prices will continue to rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss99 Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Good point John. Maybe we see reps quoted in Euros one day. The USD shure ain't what she used to be. Mind you, for us here in OZ thats not nesserily a bad thing... Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 35 Posts and that I have seen not one mention of currency translation. I agree that demand has had an effect as well as price manipulation by dealers. But last month the Yuan hit an ALL TIME HIGH against the U.S. dollar. The weak U.S. dollar is the single biggest cause in the rise of ALL import prices to the U.S. But to judge by this thread you would think it has nothing to do with the price of reps. Like it or not, as long as reps prices are denominated in dollars and the current administration's monetary policy does not change, prices will continue to rise. John: Are we reading different topics and posts? Or do you just need new glasses... Double T Cost of raw materials, weakness of US dollar, price-fixing by the Cartel dealers, whatever....it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Petroleum is at record levels, food is following a similar trajectory & many of the gen watch makers increased their prices across the board late last year with even higher increases (due to higher transportation costs & the falling dollar) being projected for sometime before the end of this year. I do not see the weak dollar in the whole issue as the prices quoted to me are in RMB and it has shot through the roof. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 +1000 No, they repped it from several pics from internet hence all the terrible flaws in the past. The percentage in costs between gens-reps is still about the same since most brands have also raised the price of the gens. It's called inflation and a weak dollar... As Freddy and Kruzer already said, reps have never been better and more accurate than today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Free trade is so great. Thank you Bill Clinton. Lets send our jobs to other countries so we can pay more for it in the long run. Brilliant ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Unfair, but I gotta pile in. But it's all in good fun. . The $300 rep of 2 years ago escalates to $450 on currency alone and closer to $500 when factoring in material inflation. Now add-in a dedicated movement, actually printing an accurate date wheel, etc. Anyone noticed what has happened to the price of steel over the last two years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 On page 1 somebody made a comment about the high cost of service on top of the cost of the rep as being a factor. Although I agree that many new reps are too expensive (at least for my blood), I firmly believe that the cost of maintaining your most valued reps is money well spent, that is if the work is done well. As for rep costs, this hobby is all about affordability.... being able to purchase and wear a beautiful facsimile of a genuine watch at a fraction of the cost. When the cost exceeds a certain threshhold, then it makes sense to stop buying ... unless of course we are lemmings rather than truly savvy shoppers. Where that tipping point occurs (where one stops buying) has many factors. The primary might include how many reps you already own, how much disposable (what I refer to as "what the f**k") you have, and your genuine passion for a particular model. And the added cost of service for long-term reliability is something I would factor into any major purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Value is always a relative term and price exhaustion is also something very real and predictable and something we profit from regularly. My take has always been that when the crowd continues to speak of price as being remarkable that is the time to bet the other way, but only if the evidence is pure. Case in point, I shorted the F*%k out of crude at $141 and everyone said I was crazy, but as they all see now the price exhaustion was very real. Plus there were no fundamental or technical reasons for oil to be that high. Reps are no different from any other market and the will respond to price pressures from its market participants. There quite frankly is nothing to support shrinking prices, like say this thread or something. The fact is as long as prices get tested and market participants buy at those prices they will continue to rise. Simple economics guys. That is demand outstrips supply. The makers can't release new models fast enough and the appetite here is ravenous. Want lower rep prices? Organize a forum wide boycott of the next hot watch with every dealer. The factory won't make the concession as they have their own wholesale customers, but the dealers will if there are no sales. I got the best possible price on my CL shorts (oil) because there was no adverse buy pressure. I shorted on evidence that buyers were no longer pouring in at those prices. Simple. So I knew the price must fall and fall soon. Their greed flowed directly into my pockets as greedy buyers saw the momentum shift too late. Their panic selling further fueled price crashing in the opposite direction which is exactly what I wanted it to do. The point being the same stuff could easily be done here. I can't manipulate oil, but you all can manipulate these boards more than you think. I mean you are only talking about getting 1000 or so people together and if you did that you could make a huge dent trust me. 1000 members holding out for one price here is the equivalent of me controling the entire oil market with $100M in equity or so. I guy can dream can't he...hehe... In sum, I have no doubt that if you all got together you could gain a lot of control in this niche market here if you wanted to. If things don't sell, prices shrink until they do as the one constant in any market is that prices MUST move. And as they shrink, further panic from competing dealers trying to get any sales they can will cause more shrinkage in the same way the longs panicked and fueled my shorts in oil. These concepts work the same in any market whether for oil, indices, houses, cars, & watches too. PS: I don't think boycotting will really be realistic per se nor do I intend to participate as I for one happen to appreciate these watches of late and feel that they are fairly priced for what they are which I have also always maintained. I'm just trying to illustrate that based on the behavior of these markets and the control firmly planted on the seller's side, there is no reason to think anything but that the prices will continue to rise unless a MAJOR demand eventy happens (which I doubt will ever happen) I realize what I am about to say will be considered heresy by many, but, other than the value of many homes, what is not going up in price these days? Petroleum is at record levels, food is following a similar trajectory & many of the gen watch makers increased their prices across the board late last year with even higher increases (due to higher transportation costs & the falling dollar) being projected for sometime before the end of this year. The fact is that rep watches, like their gen counterparts, have always been overpriced. And when we ask the rep factories to make us more accurate reps with more complicated movements for the same price we paid last year (or whenever), I think we are deluding ourselves. You cannot have it both ways. I have said it before & I will say it again - I think the price we pay for some of the better reps is a steal. Yes, there will be mechanical issues when we ask the factories to reproduce all of the functions of a complicated movement from an $8k-$10k+ watch that we buy for a few hundred dollars (the secs at 6 A7750 or GMTIIC immediately come to mind). But, overall, most of the reps we get from our in-house collectors are extremely accurate (visually & mechanically) & will easily fool all but the most hard-core WIS or collector. Man, I still remember the utter rubbish I was buying 25 years ago for $200 a pop (& that was in 1980s dollars!!!!!!!), but it was state of the art back then & we were happy to get that. (The 1st 'quality' rep I ever purchased & 1 of the 1st ETA powered reps with 'Real' gold plating to enter the US) (The watch above is 201-214 - 'L' = $225 in 1987) Todays reps have come so far that it never ceases to amaze me how gen-like some of these rep watches really are. Am I the only 1 who appreciates this? Edited August 3, 2008 by RobbieG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I just purchased three reps for about $100 each and they're pretty damn good. It's the new "complications" watches that are costing too much. We have a choice.......most reps on J&A are still reasonably priced, all things considered. Want the newest and best, pay the price. Want a terrific rep that is accurate but less in demand or been around awhile, we'll pay reasonable prices. you don't think that jandrew is over priced? i can buy a v2 skyland on ss for 210.00. go check their sites and you will have your answer on tooling costs, deflated dollar bla bla bla. they are greedy, thats all. if the factory sets the price like they want everybody to believe then why can i buy these same watches so much cheaper elsewhere? because they are lying to you guys thats why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) With all due respect DT4M, and please don't take this the wrong way, but what consititutes greed? The amount someone marks up a product? I mean, I don't know what you do for a living but I'm sure your company makes a healthy profit for what it does and it is up to the market to decide if any prices in any industry are fair. It is after all what the free market (a phrase I think many take for granted) is all about. Look, furniture is known to sell at a 400% markup and fountain soda for 200% or more, and electronics for less than 10% in some cases, and appliances at 20%. How can any one man pass judgement on something to determine whether a markup on an item is fair or unfair? Moreover, apparently the market itself doesn't think so if its participants continue to buy at whatever price the item is set at. Again, all due respect, an I appreciate that you are just looking out for the members here, but IMO it isn't up to any of us to decide arbitrarily what a fair markup for any item is. We don't do it at te grocery store or anywhere else so what makes these items any different? This market has determined that the prices charged are fair. We all know this simply becuase the watches continue to sell from all dealers at similar prices and the appetite for the products is not shrinking. If you choose to sell watches for instance and make less profits and as a result the rest of the dealers follow then of course the market will have corrected itself accordingly. But whether that is right or wrong isn't really for anyone to say. One could look at it both ways, one of which would be that while good for the member's wallets it could even be limiting overall to the industry, causing future waning interest from the factories maybe because the risk vs. reward for doing a new watch is less attractive thus making them question the depth and commitment to future offerings. I say all this really just to the point being that messing with prices in either direction is never without consequence and there is no absolute morality in lower prices, any more than there is in trying to squash higher ones. I have no problem with the greed badge and call me Gordon Gekko, but making less money on purpose is just bad business. LOL... The prices are out of control and they do not need to be. The reason is GREED.. nothing else.. And any of you who say that this is not really the case... I'll put my money where my mouth is and prove it to all of you. It is price fixing and greed. Want proof??? Stay tuned... Edited August 3, 2008 by RobbieG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 John: Are we reading different topics and posts? Or do you just need new glasses... Double T You edited all those posts to make me look like a fool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 You edited all those posts to make me look like a fool! Ummm... Apparently you do that pretty good yourself... Not to sure you need my help... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Lets just wait till all the feuding and throat cutting is done over in GZ and we will see where prices are! This may be a temporary situation that will resolve itself. And then again, maybe next year we will be paying $600 for a standard Submariner... In the end, if you dont like the price then dont pay it. I have bought 14 watches since I last placed an order from a dealer. Seems logical to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 @RobbieG, Indeed.. we all have different opinions on the definitions of greed... I will take a page out of the Dealer book and apply it to my pocketbook... I want to have more of it in there..... To overplay devils advocate on this issue has lead to Paralysis by Analysis.. plain and simple. Main Entry: greed Pronunciation: \ˈgrēd\ : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed I'm sorry.. I think I hit it on the head... but I'm sure it can be argued in 500 other different ways ... which also leads to paralysis by analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Ummm... Apparently you do that pretty good yourself... Not to sure you need my help... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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