cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Customs isn't the dealer's concern then. It's yours. I'm not particularly comfortable with your point of view, to be honest. I viewed it in a business aspect. Dealers know the risk from Day 1, and the risk is priced in. Business is business, nothing personal. Dealers don't come here to make friends. It's like buying from Costco. I wouldn't worry too much about Costco being scammed. A lot of people "borrow" electronics from Costco. I ve seen people returning half eaten bananas. That's not my responsibility to take care of their problems. If Costco decides to raise price due to fraud, then I may not renew my membership next year. It's as simple as that. Btw, there is a difference between "I don't care" and "There is nothing that I can do to help you solve your problem." and what I meant was the latter. I have bought 30+ watches and I only returned twice due to problems that I can't solve. I never have custom issue, but I am more willing to share the loss with the dealer if custom seize my watch. Edited July 28, 2006 by cwai02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I have always thought the risk of loss at customs should reside with the seller because they are best equipped to easily carry that risk. First, a $200 hit to one buyer is a huge pain for that person. However, a dealer can spread that out to $X dollars over X sales on the cheap with no personal loss. This is good buisness for the seller as well because it encourages more buyers to purchase. Furthermore, the dealer is best equipped to properly package a watch (piano, etc) such that it won't be picked up by customs. I keep hearing about customs problems; but I never here anyone say their watch was seized outside of very isolated incidents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) @Pugwash and Quarks......and ALL other dealers......cwai is the guy that has been following me all over the place trying to [censored] in my Rice Krispies ...with no great success I may add.....! His attitude is quite simple...."I'm alright Jack"...f**k everybody else.....that was made clear to me as a dealer when he ordered his first Planet Ocean from me.....a day later Trusty posted one that caught his eye and he then e-mailed me asking the following: Omega PO Orange Roy chiwai@gmail.com to ttk.keyserszos@gmail.com More options Mar 8 Hi, I ordered an Omega PO Orange from you on Mar 05. I heard that you wait the payment to be cleared before ordering the watch. So, I wonder if you can change my order to Panerai 111h Stainless Steel Bracelet , 077? I saw that you are selling it for $220. I can send you the difference. I just ordered a PO from Andrew, so I don't want to end up getting two same watch. I was thinking to cancel my order, but I don't want to [censored] you off as you are a good seller. Well, just poor in communication. Btw, let me know what can you do. Thanks. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chiwai Cheng chiwai@gmail.com to ttk.keyserszos@gmail.com Hi chiwai......I don't wait for payment to clear.....if you want a Pam 111H....I can change your order for you..no need to send any extra payment......I'll send as soon it is in stock...! regards TTK --------------------------------------------------------- So I did him a favour ....next thing he's all over the boards trying to [censored] on me.......believe me....this bastard will sell you down the river quick as look at you......he will without quibble or qualm stick you into Paypal or Interpol......this bastard has no scruples and is only interested in himslef....! I've already posted ALL his details in the dealer section.....and whilst i certainly am not conducting any kind of price cartel......I will do my damndest to make sure this bastard can't order again here.....! I ve done my job as an honest buyer. An 'honest' buyer....in a criminal activity.....ya dumb schmuck.....! Edited July 28, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 First, a $200 hit to one buyer is a huge pain for that person. However, a dealer can spread that out to $X dollars over X sales on the cheap with no personal loss. I believe this is the point of this thread. The potential loss would be reflected in the price, causing an increase in prices as customs activity increased. Or, creating an opt-in insurance option on the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 ....do you mean that they would get along better in prison than us??? We keep talking about RISK. The only risk we face is tripping on the way to the mailbox to retreive these things and scaping a knee. Dealers face prison. Not quite equal I'm afraid. Plus I don't think that the price raise has been said to be exponentially. It could be a matter of a few bucks, and theres alot of people that have their panties in a bunch over this, which could turn out to be a bunch of hooey Last time I checked you can't go to prison, at least in the US, for buying a fake watch. So that really isn't an issue that can be put on one side or the other. It is set in stone either way unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 TTK, your service sucks and Andrew/EL/Joshua blew you away. You are [censored] since I made that comment. I ve bought 30+ watches and I never have any problems with any dealers. Personally, I just don't like the way you bad mouth and insult other members. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I think that's the point he was making....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 @Pugwash and Quarks......and ALL other dealers......cwai is the guy that has been following me all over the place trying to [censored] in my Rice Krispies ...with no great success I may add.....! His attitude is quite simple...."I'm alright Jack"...f**k everybody else.....that was made clear to me as a dealer when he ordered his first Planet Ocean from me.....a day later Trusty posted one that caught his eye and he then e-mailed me asking the following: Omega PO Orange Roy Well there you go. We need to expose more people who is shitting on dealers. See what has been going on: Luckyy got hit, EL got a huge ass fine, Josh got scammed by Fassi and probably more, and Neil, I'm sure you have your fair share as well (I'm sure other dealers as well). Plus all the risk getting nab, etc. After reading all these, I have no qualms about paying more for service. No doubt I would be a more picky about which watches to buy. Just human nature. Whatever it is, you gotta do what you gotta do. It is about time people realise how damn lucky we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 btw, I ve bought from Andrew, EL, PT, River, Sichuan, Kings, Aspire... have you seen me complaining? You still don't get it, don't you. It's about the attitude you treat other members. How many times have you insulted me, making fun of my name and calling me stupid? Go figure. Mods don't seem to care, but hey, it's not like you have a privilege to insult people. A few weeks ago, when you were nice in the photography forum. That was great. No attitude and very helpful. You got my respect. But come on, nobody wanted to be insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) TTK, your service sucks and Andrew/EL/Joshua blew you away. You are [censored] since I made that comment Yeah my service sucked so much that you didn't get stiffed for a 2nd PO.....but I tell you what....it won't make a blind bit of difference......you sent me genuine taxed $$$$...which I'll use for my next genuine......and I sent you a cheap Chinese knockoff....who's the dumb dude here.....? How many times have you insulted me, making fun of my name and calling me stupid? Go figure. I never insulted you ...until you started running me down on RWI and elsewhere.......i've already shown your nature.....don't make me post all the [censored] that you threw my way....when you had no reason for complaint.....I stood by you as a dealer.....and you tried to work me over......all over the place......but no difference.....I've posted all your details.....there's already comment on it...we'll see what transpires.....! Edited July 28, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I have always thought the risk of loss at customs should reside with the seller because they are best equipped to easily carry that risk. First, a $200 hit to one buyer is a huge pain for that person. However, a dealer can spread that out to $X dollars over X sales on the cheap with no personal loss. This is good buisness for the seller as well because it encourages more buyers to purchase. Furthermore, the dealer is best equipped to properly package a watch (piano, etc) such that it won't be picked up by customs. I keep hearing about customs problems; but I never here anyone say their watch was seized outside of very isolated incidents? If the watch is seized in the country where it was sent, the dealer covers the loss. If the watch is seized in buyer's country, the buyer is responsible. This should be the way how things should be run.. but is it?? Dealers are covering both bases here and somehow you are trying to work your way around the fact that the dealer can somehow cover the losses by "encouraging more buyers to purchase"??? Jebus. Even legitimate online businesses don't run this way. You order illegal items into your country. Your customs seized the item. YOUR LOSS. Who the hell in the right mind would try and monitor each and every country's law. The fact that andrew went an extra mile doesn't mean that he can keep on covering the costs. Some of you people have one thing in mind: "I'm alright Jack"...f**k everybody else." (to quote TTK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yeah my service sucked so much that you didn't get stiffed for a 2nd PO.....but I tell you what....it won't make a blind bit of difference......you sent me genuine taxed $$$$...which I'll use for my next genuine......and I sent you a cheap Chinese knockoff....who's the dumb dude here.....? It has nothing to do with the transaction between you and me. I can live with a 2nd PO. I have 4 POs if you don't know. It's not about the watch or your business. It's about your ATTITUDE, Neil. You can't respond to a different opinion without insulting people, can't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I never expressed any attitude to you ...until you started posting [censored] like..."I don't know why people deal with TTK....".....I'll tell you why....because I accomodate people like you.....there's an end to it....! You have 4x Planet Oceans.....well more fool you.....you obviously have the best taste money can buy....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) If the watch is seized in the country where it was sent, the dealer covers the loss. If the watch is seized in buyer's country, the buyer is responsible. This should be the way how things should be run.. but is it?? Dealers are covering both bases here and somehow you are trying to work your way around the fact that the dealer can somehow cover the losses by "encouraging more buyers to purchase"??? Jebus. Even legitimate online businesses don't run this way. You order illegal items into your country. Your customs seized the item. YOUR LOSS. Who the hell in the right mind would try and monitor each and every country's law. The fact that andrew went an extra mile doesn't mean that he can keep on covering the costs. Some of you people have one thing in mind: "I'm alright Jack"...f**k everybody else." (to quote TTK). @quarks......you are spot on......if the item gets seized in MY country.....i take care of it......! I had 19x Planet Oceans seized on the 27th Dec.....by Customs at Don Muang airport in BK....I had to pay a 'fine' of almost $2000 to 'free' them.......every one was cleared by Thai Customs.....and sent on...in my presence.......17x got thru' to the dealers......2x never made it.....I never questioned whether thsoe were received or not....I replaced them......I never asked...never received nor was offered any financial assistance regarding them....in fact only ONE customer expressed his appreciation....thank you DavidWS.....it was my responsibility...I carried the can......! Edited July 28, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 If the watch is seized in the country where it was sent, the dealer covers the loss. If the watch is seized in buyer's country, the buyer is responsible. This should be the way how things should be run.. but is it?? Dealers are covering both bases here and somehow you are trying to work your way around the fact that the dealer can somehow cover the losses by "encouraging more buyers to purchase"??? Jebus. Even legitimate online businesses don't run this way. You order illegal items into your country. Your customs seized the item. YOUR LOSS. Who the hell in the right mind would try and monitor each and every country's law. The fact that andrew went an extra mile doesn't mean that he can keep on covering the costs. Some of you people have one thing in mind: "I'm alright Jack"...f**k everybody else." (to quote TTK). You obviously need to re-read my post. "?? Dealers are covering both bases here and somehow you are trying to work your way around the fact that the dealer can somehow cover the losses by "encouraging more buyers to purchase"??? Jebus." Is not what I said. Let me demonstrate how correct this actually is, although the numbers will be just guesses. I would use X, Y, Z, etc but want to avoid any confusion. Let us say the base price of watch is $100. ($30 shipping, $20 profit, $50 watch cost). (change numbers as you want) Now, let us say 1 out of 50 is seized. (no idea what real % is, once again change as you want but I have never had a watch seized out of many, many purchases and rarely hear about it). That is a lost cost to the dealer of 80$ ($30 to ship again, $50 for another watch). 80/50 = $1.6; that means the dealer has to charge $1.6 more per watch if 1/50 is seized. Obviously this is grossly inaccurate, but stick in whatever numbers you chose and you will see the point. Would you rather pay $1.6, or even about 3x that, $5 more, and know you will get your watch? Or would you rather be the one guy who DOESN't receive a watch at all? I think I'll pay the nominal fee. Now, I say this is good for the dealer. Why? Because a hell of a lot more people will pay a few bucks extra to have the risk spread out among all buyers than want to risk that their watch might be lost. This = more sales for the dealer (good for business!) because there is less risk for the buyer, the risk is distributed. This is the reason insurance exists in our society. Altough the numbers may be off, I believe I am right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 lol, I still don't understand why people deal with you when there are so many options. Anyway, Neil, we are going nowhere. The same old story going around and around. I left you alone since last time you had paypal issue. You are not going to hurt me by posting a negative review in your dealer section. I am not going to hurt you by saying your service sucks. People are still going to buy from you and dealers are still going to sell me watches. Let's move on. You know you can't provoke me by insulting me, and I know you are not going to change your attitude, so what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) You stop trying to rip the [censored] out of me.....and I won't come to Brooklyn and slap your 6" hairless girlie wrist......OK.....! Edited July 28, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 You stop trying to rip the [censored] out of me.....and I won't come to Brooklyn and slap your 6" hairless girlie wrist......OK.....! Now you are threatning members with physical violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 You stop trying to rip the [censored] out of me.....and I won't come to Brooklyn and slap your 6' hairless girlie wrist......OK.....! I am an asian, but it doesn't mean I have a 6' hairless girlie wrist. I am 6'2 and 220lbs with a 7.5' wrist. I live in Flushing though. okay, let's move on. It's getting boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Now you are threatning members with physical violence? lol, he can't literally mean it. You will feel better when you treat TTK's insult as a joke. Have you seen me getting angry? It's just internet. Don't get too serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 lol, he can't literally mean it. You will feel better when you treat TTK's insult as a joke. Have you seen me getting angry? It's just internet. Don't get too serious. No, I know he won't fly over and do anything. My point is there is a rule against this sort of post (rule 4), but the rules don't apply to TTK. I can think of another similar (empty) threat by a strap dealer that ended very differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 No, I know he won't fly over and do anything. My point is there is a rule against this sort of post (rule 4), but the rules don't apply to TTK. I can think of another similar (empty) threat by a strap dealer that ended very differently. No need to throw the ball to the mods. It's not a big deal. Let him alone to do his business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 In my country we always say that 'an old dog that always barks never bites' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarks Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 When I first bought reps, and I believe I have mentioned it before either here or TRC, that if the watch doesn't come, I am prepared for the loss. Why? I am dealing with illegal items here. I am VERY surprised by how things are run here by the dealers which we ALL take for granted. And some people goes a bit further by ABUSING the system. @ Craytonic, I have re-read your post. As for the calculations, I don't really care that much about it. You may hit the nail right on the head, who knows? I am not a dealer, neither are you. I'll just take it as a grain of salt. Yes, I agree with you on the insurance part, hence I do not mind paying extra for the service and I don't see why anyone should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Now you are threatning members with physical violence? ..Slapping his wrist....that's not violence.......you see I pitched that in because I could see you at the bottom of the screen....hanging on every word I say.....or about to say....'cos I knew YOU would be in there like the rope-a-dope you are......protesting about 'violence'....TTK should be banned etc etc......hold still till I take the hook out of your mouth.....you're wetter than a haddocks bathing costume............schmuck....... Edited July 28, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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