HauteHippie Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Timothy I-Dont-Pay-My-Taxes Geithner, who reportedly finished filling out his 1040-EZ late last week, now wants to spend upwards of $2 trillion on the bank rescue plan. The credit markets aren't functioning, we're being told. People can't get loans and therefore can't spend money and therefore our economy is in dire straights, we're being told. (As if the measure of a sound economy is the amount of money exchanging hands). So, OK, why is this case and what are we *not* being told? Well, the global credit crunch is a result of all the extra money the US Government is now borrowing and the fact that all the countries who were loaning money to Americans in the first place are not and will not be getting paid back, and whatever money they now have left over is being loaned to the US Government. So the real crisis here is that the US economy simply can not continue to exist if it can not continue to go further in to debt, which means the rest of the world has to supply us with loans that we can't pay back. But leading up to where we are now, we've borrowed all this money that can't be paid back by relying on the rest of the world to save and produce and give us their accumulated wealth so that we could continue to enjoy the living standards that we've come to expect. And so what do the Obama and Geithner plans do to address this, the REAL crisis?? Simple. They magnify that ridiculous dynamic to unprecedented proportion... Oh and meanwhile the rest of the world is suffering tremendously while they subsidize us. So, let's be realistic. This scheme is wholly unsustainable, these "plans" are only going to make things worse, and are going make the eventual economic collapse - which hasn't even yet really begun - that much more catastrophic by further delaying the restructuring of a service sector economy which doesn't produce and can not accumulate its own wealth. And if you can't believe me, maybe you can believe a guy with actual "cred" like Jim Rogers....... http://www.cnbc.com/id/29114947 Banks Rescue Will 'Make Things Worse': Rogers The new financial rescue plan may not work and could even make things worse because it plunges the US further into debt and it is designed by the same people who failed to forecast the crisis and take measures, legendary investor Jim Rogers told CNBC Tuesday. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner will unveil a long-awaited package of measures to help the financial sector at 11 am New York time. But Rogers said Geithner, who was president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, "has been dead wrong about everything for 15 years in a row," and so was President Barack Obama's economic advisor Lawrence Summers, who acted as Treasury Secretary at the turn of the century. "It is mind-boggling to me," Rogers told "Squawk Box Europe." "If I were on your show 15 weeks in a row and was wrong, you'd probably never invite me back. These guys have been wrong year after year after year consistently and here they are making the same mistakes again. This is not going to solve the problem, it's going to make it worse." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ah gotta love the Apathetic that put the rest of the world on the knife edge of financial ruin, then expect the rest of the world to dig it out of said hole, just so they can do it all over again! Hurrah! *waves patriotic flag* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If I've learned anything in my life, when it comes to these matters.........NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If that's too complex for the empty suits in WashDC to comprehend, perhaps this will illuminate the sheer level of insanity of their "stimulus plan" ....... If the President wants to spend $1Trillion to create 3.5 million jobs it will cost $286,000 PER JOB to do so. Is that simple enough for people to understand? This is sheer insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki6 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Think you will find quite a few people know far more than you give credit for Robert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If I've learned anything in my life, when it comes to these matters.........NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING! I agree, but at the same time this whole situation has got me pretty scared. I have never seen the US in such turmoil. I don't think the answer is to throw good money after bad. Kinda like being on a bad streak at the casino and continuing to shove hundreds into he wheel of fortune machine. I just know one day it will hit the big one. I feel the only thing the government should be focusing on right now is making banks adjujt peoples' mortgage payments and inerest rates. Give judges the right to modify loans and once people start staying in their houses, paying their mortgages, housing prices will stabalize and the economy will be fixed. The whole mess is because people who know nothing about real estate or finance got sucked into and approved for houses they could not afford. You have to treat the cause and not just the symptoms. The bail out and stimuus packages only treat the outcome of what happened but do nothing to reverse what caused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraines87 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If the President wants to spend $1Trillion to create 3.5 million jobs it will cost $286,000 PER JOB to do so. OR Save jobs.... Obama's smart. When 1 million jobs are created he can claim that he saved the other 2.5 million with no way to prove otherwise. The save clause is his out so that the kool-aid drinkers can defend him in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Okay, I have the answer. You saw it here first. Give every working man, woman and child in America a tax holiday for... some period of time. You get to keep EVERY dollar you earn. The result would be spending, investment and confidence like there's no tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Why not just take the 3 trillion and split it up amongst the tax payers? I'm sure the economy could bounce back if everyone had an extra $30k or so. These $300 and $600 stimulus checks have done nothing. I promise I will do my part and spend it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patinga Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 We can't give it to us because we aren't responsible with it. We have been borrowing (consumers) more than the GDP of the US for years. More debt is ridiculous and the world has been using the US consumer as the economic engine of the world. Now we can't pay and people are surprised? I honestly believe there is a dart board over at Treasury and the White House with totally random ideas on it and they take turns on what to do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Everything is going exactly as I have said it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Everything is going exactly as I have said it would. Man you still kill me bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 What do you mean? I said many times prior to the election that Obama and a democrat controlld house would tax, spend and double the 'stimuspend' package. As I recall I also said something to the effect of 'you got what you asked for'. Nothing anyone can do but ride it out now. What do you care for anyway. The price of Caribou isn'r going up is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat.tail.event Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Jeremy Grantham from GMO had the best, quick response to all of this nonsense. Since the housing bubble popped private citizens and enterprise have gone from $50T in assets to approximately $30T. This is personal assets, home and investments, same for business, corporate real estate etc. The $50T was supported by $25T in debt/financing. Now the $30T is supported by the same amount of debt. Not the most ideal debt ratio to begin with and now that ratio completely unacceptable...maybe now people will understand why banks wont lend. So how does a $900B put a dent in $20T of losses? Economists wouldnt have a job if their answer was to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Economists wouldnt have a job if their answer was to do nothing. And politicians wouldn't get reelected, and on and on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 And politicians wouldn't get reelected, and on and on.... Oh Chief you read my mind...I was wondering how long it would take you to post on this... Timmy Timmy Timmy...he doesn't care about what he's spending- It's not "his" tax money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perry563 Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If you think about it two trains of thought exist. One is to stimulate the economy via the spending plan set forth by our new president. The idea here is that everything is so bad that the only way to pull the brakes and turn things around in a reasonable time span is by government intervention. The conservative side tells us that if we just cut taxes and wait the economy will be self correcting. You will notice however that no one mentions how long everyone will need to wait for this to occur. No doubt that in the long run the economy will self correct but in the long run we are also all dead. It is also feasible that the economy will reach an equilibrium at much less than full employment. Month after month things are getting worse and worse and there is no end in sight. We have not hit bottom yet and I think it will be late 2009 before we do so. We MUST do everything that we can to turn this around. This will include that spending plan and tax cuts. Every day that we wait will make the situation that much worse. If you think about it two trains of thought exist. One is to stimulate the economy via the spending plan set forth by our new president. The idea here is that everything is so bad that the only way to pull the brakes and turn things around in a reasonable time span is by government intervention. The conservative side tells us that if we just cut taxes and wait the economy will be self correcting. You will notice however that no one mentions how long everyone will need to wait for this to occur. No doubt that in the long run the economy will self correct but in the long run we are also all dead. It is also feasible that the economy will reach an equilibrium at much less than full employment. Month after month things are getting worse and worse and there is no end in sight. We have not hit bottom yet and I think it will be late 2009 before we do so. We MUST do everything that we can to turn this around. This will include that spending plan and tax cuts. Every day that we wait will make the situation that much worse. If you think about it two trains of thought exist. One is to stimulate the economy via the spending plan set forth by our new president. The idea here is that everything is so bad that the only way to pull the brakes and turn things around in a reasonable time span is by government intervention. The conservative side tells us that if we just cut taxes and wait the economy will be self correcting. You will notice however that no one mentions how long everyone will need to wait for this to occur. No doubt that in the long run the economy will self correct but in the long run we are also all dead. It is also feasible that the economy will reach an equilibrium at much less than full employment. Month after month things are getting worse and worse and there is no end in sight. We have not hit bottom yet and I think it will be late 2009 before we do so. We MUST do everything that we can to turn this around. This will include that spending plan and tax cuts. Every day that we wait will make the situation that much worse. If you think about it two trains of thought exist. One is to stimulate the economy via the spending plan set forth by our new president. The idea here is that everything is so bad that the only way to pull the brakes and turn things around in a reasonable time span is by government intervention. The conservative side tells us that if we just cut taxes and wait the economy will be self correcting. You will notice however that no one mentions how long everyone will need to wait for this to occur. No doubt that in the long run the economy will self correct but in the long run we are also all dead. It is also feasible that the economy will reach an equilibrium at much less than full employment. Month after month things are getting worse and worse and there is no end in sight. We have not hit bottom yet and I think it will be late 2009 before we do so. We MUST do everything that we can to turn this around. This will include that spending plan and tax cuts. Every day that we wait will make the situation that much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 We can't give it to us because we aren't responsible with it. Agreed.........we'd only go and buy more reps! How will that stimulate our economies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat.tail.event Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Some other thoughts on this... Listening to Geithner yesterday was like listening to my high school valedictorian's send off speech, except replace do great things in life with do great things with the capital markets/economy. Maybe its that he's just too young and I have a bias for grey hairs at this point. Watching the House get so frustrated with Bernanke and Geithner only reinforces their lack of understanding of this grand scenario. At one point a woman on the House Fin Services Comm. was just railing on Bernanke about TARP. Barney Frank had to interrupt to remind her that TARP was administered by the Treasury, not the Fed. Ron Paul is dead on about lack of transparency at the Fed. We are putting all of our force and hope in one institution that has minimal oversight and accountability to Congress let alone the citizens. There is a tidal wave coming. And I feel like we are putting on our Sunday best, digging our feet in the sand, and just peeing in front of it. You may look heroic, presidential up until the point you get crushed. Time is better spent thinking about the aftermath and beyond. No one wants to recognize that something so dark can be so beautiful at the same time. But thats exactly what I think of bankruptcy system in this country. Ramp it up. It has greatly contributed to the success of this country and makes recoveries more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Some other thoughts on this... Listening to Geithner yesterday was like listening to my high school valedictorian's send off speech, except replace do great things in life with do great things with the capital markets/economy. Maybe its that he's just too young and I have a bias for grey hairs at this point. Watching the House get so frustrated with Bernanke and Geithner only reinforces their lack of understanding of this grand scenario. At one point a woman on the House Fin Services Comm. was just railing on Bernanke about TARP. Barney Frank had to interrupt to remind her that TARP was administered by the Treasury, not the Fed. Ron Paul is dead on about lack of transparency at the Fed. We are putting all of our force and hope in one institution that has minimal oversight and accountability to Congress let alone the citizens. There is a tidal wave coming. And I feel like we are putting on our Sunday best, digging our feet in the sand, and just peeing in front of it. You may look heroic, presidential up until the point you get crushed. Time is better spent thinking about the aftermath and beyond. No one wants to recognize that something so dark can be so beautiful at the same time. But thats exactly what I think of bankruptcy system in this country. Ramp it up. It has greatly contributed to the success of this country and makes recoveries more efficient. This is a great post.^^^^^^^^^^ I will agree it is dire, I will agree the best minds are trying to make some sense of it and develope a decisive comprehensive plan. Until that time, I think the President and his Cabinet should spend less time 'campaigning' an agenda. He's already won the hearts the minds, the election. Less face time on television at town hall meetings promoting what he 'hopes' to do and more time behind the scenes in ground school. The guy is 'smart'. Not even his biggest detractors call him an idiot intellectually. But the smartest man, thrown behind the controls of a runaway airliner with no training isn't going to pull it out. Recounting your youthful exuberance of the day you had hoped to soar in the clouds with angels won't cut it. Rehtoric needs to bend to being brought up to speed and then to action. I listened to Geithner's speech yesterday as well. And watched the market plummet proportionally as it became evident he had nothing concrete to say with regard to a 'plan'. Other than a 'plan' was indeed needed. Jeez. 'Silence' is more comforting than "Uh, duh". At least you can rationalize; "They're up on the Hill working on this". I like fat.tail's analogy. At the conclusion of the Secretary's speech I likened it to a sick patient looking for imminent medical attention. You know it's bad because you feel like death already. The lab draws blood and urine, the doctor performs biopsy and his nurse says they will consult when they receive and digest the results. The weeks go by and you get the call, "The doctor needs to see you". You break a sweat and hunker down for the diagnosos/prognosis, you have a plan for every eventuality. "Well, we took blood, urine and the biopsy. When we figure out what we have here, and what we need to do, we will try our very, very best to take care of you. Until then, go home and wait for a phone call. Try to relax. Remain positive. It's horrible, but we are dedicated to your health." Uh, WTF? Why am I here and why are you talking? Go look through a microscope or titrate something dumb*ss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Uh, WTF? Why am I here and why are you talking? Go look through a microscope or titrate something dumb*ss! superb!!! excellent comment, love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat.tail.event Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 At the conclusion of the Secretary's speech I likened it to a sick patient looking for imminent medical attention. You know it's bad because you feel like death already. The lab draws blood and urine, the doctor performs biopsy and his nurse says they will consult when they receive and digest the results. The weeks go by and you get the call, "The doctor needs to see you". You break a sweat and hunker down for the diagnosos/prognosis, you have a plan for every eventuality. "Well, we took blood, urine and the biopsy. When we figure out what we have here, and what we need to do, we will try our very, very best to take care of you. Until then, go home and wait for a phone call. Try to relax. Remain positive. It's horrible, but we are dedicated to your health." Uh, WTF? Why am I here and why are you talking? Go look through a microscope or titrate something dumb*ss! I am quite a bit more down than you. In medical terms this is like a 'barber' recommending to bleed the patient. (yeah, I'm in the middle of the John Adams HBO series) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 It's time to come to terms with what the real issues are. As exhibited here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) It's time to come to terms with what the real issues are. As exhibited here. This was the wrong decade to lose James Brown; Superhighways - coast to coast - easy takin' anywhere - On the transcontinental overload just slide behind the wheel. How does it feel when there's no destination that's too far And somewhere on the way you might find out who you are. Living in America - eye to eye - station to station. Living in America - hand in hand - across the nation. Living in America - got to have a celebration - rock my soul! Smokestack - fatback - many miles of railroad track. All-night radio keep on runnin' through your rock'n' roll soul. All-night diners keep you awake on a black coffee and a hard roll. you might have to walk a fine line you might take a hard line But everybody's workin' overtime........................... From the Vogue article; "We want entertaining in the White House to feel like America, that we are reminded of all the many facets of our culture. The Latino community, the Asian-American community, the African-American community... hip-hop, spoken word - we want to bring the youth in, for them to hear their voices in this," Michelle Obama Looks like 'phoband' was right; the WASP is out....................... As if 'Congressmen' weren't bad enough, now the White House wants the opinion of 'youth' ? Free condoms, weed and beer it is then. BOT On lunch break and trying to digest the testimony of the Major Bank CEO's in front of the House Financial Services Committee. Good Lord this Congress is stump dumb to a wet bag of rock. They understand and know NOTHING of economics or the current environment. They can't even fake it. I think the Liberal Majority are the ones listening to hard to Rush Limbaugh. One thing Geithner stated yesterday that gives me hope; "Banks can not be run well by governments". Phew! I think he's alone with that notion with regard to the administration. Yesterday the President and his Cabinet had their shot at 'confidence building'. The market tanked. Today the banks speak and the markets hold their own................ John Lewis; ".................the Bank of America is sitting on millions of dollars of product available to the private sector and commercial interest in the form of collateralized loans, and has been for the past eighteen months......................" Congressman Spencer Bachus; "What about your exposure to sub-prime loans? And when did you first realize the melt down was coming due to sub-prime loans?" John Lewis;"...............the Bank of America has never participated in sub-prime loaning. Ever." Congressman Bachus "Uhhhhhhhhhhhh. Oh." Edited February 11, 2009 by Demsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Don't you just love it when they squirm? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7880640.stm JTB and here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7881081.stm and the MP grilling them is my local MP John McFall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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