2005SUBMARINER Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 (edited) GEN ROLEX EXPLORER 1 REVIEWED IN DETAIL BY THE TZ GUYS .. gen explorer 1 not to kosher .. acording to those hard core gen collectors they said the gen rolex explorer 1 came with a dirty movement & that the watch in his opinion shouldent cost no more than $600-$800 as compared to its $2,500 price tag after reading this article & seeing the watch ladys review on EL eta explorer id say our eta rep of the explorer 1 is a super deal & maybe on par with the gen .. time zone review of the GEN ROLEX EXPLORER.. EXPLORER 1 Edited August 3, 2006 by 2005SUBMARINER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Mmmm...interesting; can you post the link...? still searching...I still think that the Expl II in black is a great rep...without the SS issue around the markers that the white dial still has... Regards Alex GEN ROLEX EXPLORER 1 REVIEWED IN DETAIL BY THE TZ GUYS .. gen explorer 1 not to kosher .. acording to those hard core gen collectors they said the gen rolex explorer 1 came with a dirty movement & that the watch in his opinion shouldent cost no more than $600-$800 as compared to its $2,500 price tag after reading this article & seeing the watch ladys review on EL eta explorer id say our eta rep of the explorer 1 is a super deal & maybe on par with the gen .. time zone review of the GEN ROLEX EXPLORER.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 EXPLORER 1Mmmm...interesting; can you post the link...? still searching...I still think that the Expl II in black is a great rep...without the SS issue around the markers that the white dial still has... Regards Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 EXPLORER 1 Great link...impressive and thorough review! Somehow I think that it will not surprise many of our experts but an eye opener for me....I guess Rolex is investing more in celebrities, PR campaigns and the private jets of their upper echelon than on the watches themselves...And it is bearing fruit: if you want a sub in NYC from an AD you'll have to wait 12 weeks (according to Tourneau)...after reading this an Explorer ETA based replica of good quality with the proper mods is not such a bad idea. Thanks! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Great link...impressive and thorough review! Somehow I think that it will not surprise many of our experts but an eye opener for me....I guess Rolex is investing more in celebrities, PR campaigns and the private jets of their upper echelon than on the watches themselves...And it is bearing fruit: if you want a sub in NYC from an AD you'll have to wait 12 weeks (according to Tourneau)...after reading this an Explorer ETA based replica of good quality with the proper mods is not such a bad idea. Thanks! Alex i think your absolutely right i think rolex ss models are way over priced .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrgod Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 (edited) Very interesting reading, thanks for the tip! I like the basic Explorer 1, along with the Air-King.. and have considered to buy one of them them as gens. Interesting to read that the crystal is not AR-coated! And to see the non-solid end links on the genuine band! The gen has the same gaps between case and band as a simple rep.. Edited August 3, 2006 by chrgod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Very interesting reading, thanks for the tip! I like the basic Explorer 1, along with the Air-King.. and have considered to buy one of them them as gens. Interesting to read that the crystal is not AR-coated! And to see the non-solid end links on the genuine band! The gen has the same gaps between case and band as a simple rep.. i bet out ETA models have a better end link than the one shown also i imagine the eta model is a lil more heavier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkatbamna Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 From the review: " I cannot think of another consumer product in which the gulf between the publicly perceived quality and the reality I saw is as broad as with the Explorer." I guess the reviewr hasn't heard of Bose speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonystyle Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 That article is from Walt, he left TZ over the reaction to the article... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 From the review: " I cannot think of another consumer product in which the gulf between the publicly perceived quality and the reality I saw is as broad as with the Explorer." I guess the reviewr hasn't heard of Bose speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 That article is from Walt, he left TZ over the reaction to the article... Was his opinion not trusted? Leaving a board over something you write seems a bit harsh. Maybe I'm just used to the rep forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrono903 Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Great watch, old article, very old. statistically, N=1 is worthless. Movement and bracelet are improved. As for the price of most s/s watches, are any worth that much more than what we pay for our reps? Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Ahhhh... Yes, Dr. Odets' infamous Explorer review. There have been many theories on Odets qualification (or lack thereof) in even taking such watches apart for reviews. It's been said that he takes watches apart, and then sends them in to be reassembled by the manufacturer of said watch. Whether there is any truth to that or not, I am not completely certain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Great watch, old article, very old. statistically, N=1 is worthless. I agree, and I can imagine how a controversial single-piece test like this can cause a rift in a community, much like I see in Apple Mac circles when one pre-release or unknown-origin machine is tested by a reputable magazine and entire conclusions are drawn. Wars have broken out over less. The problem I have with this article is that it's pulled out repeatedly as PROOF that Rolex make crappy watches. One article about one watch. I'm reserving judgement, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 "Ahhhh... Yes, Dr. Odets' infamous Explorer review. There have been many theories on Odets qualification (or lack thereof) in even taking such watches apart for reviews. It's been said that he takes watches apart, and then sends them in to be reassembled by the manufacturer of said watch. Whether there is any truth to that or not, I am not completely certain.." Yes...just ask Ofrei> I don't believe anything from Odetts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I bet it takes a year to build a review like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahfahfooey Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) From the review: " I cannot think of another consumer product in which the gulf between the publicly perceived quality and the reality I saw is as broad as with the Explorer." I guess the reviewr hasn't heard of Bose speakers. You got that right! When I was in college I used to sell home stereos in the silicon valley to pay for tuition. Bose was always an easy sell, even at their exhorbitant prices, because of all of their aggressive marketing. They never matched up in the listening tests, however, against anything in their price range. In fact, they were usually blown away. They had almost zero midrange and required heavy amplification just to make them sound mediocre. People still wanted them, though, for reasons that had nothing to do with audio quality. Women especially loved them. Interestingly, part of Bose's strategy was to reward individual salesmen for selling volume. You would get "Bose points" for every set you sold. In 2 years of part time work I earned 5 or 6 sets of their speakers, but I didn't keep a single set for myself. I either sold them in the paper or gave them away as gifts. Give me Kef anyday... Edited August 4, 2006 by fahfahfooey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faide Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Mmmm...interesting; can you post the link...? still searching...I still think that the Expl II in black is a great rep...without the SS issue around the markers that the white dial still has... Regards Alex I agree Alextor. The Exp II black dial is a great rep. My first rollie rep. bought from Trusty. Keeps great time! _Faide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub4me Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I remember that article very well, so if thats guys correct. You just got the best EXP very little money can buy. Congrats and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 The problem I have with this article is that it's pulled out repeatedly as PROOF that Rolex make crappy watches. One article about one watch. I'm reserving judgement, to be honest. Yeah, I've also seen this article trotted out a bunch of times on both gen (like chronocentric, the "unbiased" Omega fansite) and rep forums to "prove" that Rolex are overpriced crap. Maybe that's true depending on the criteria and one's personal preferences, but lots of people like the more highly regarded John Holbrook, Jr. have questioned Odets' methods and motives. In any case, it's just Odets' opinion what a watch should or should not cost, since everybody knows the MSRP of a watch is not based on some formulaic markup of the production cost. This is beating a putrified horse. The "$600-800" figure is a bizarre one because 1) it's sort of a dead zone for watches that are not mainstream and not quite luxury, and thus I don't know what Odets sees as fairly priced competitors to the Exp I; and 2) any mainline luxury watch maker (Omega, Rolex, Cartier etc.) COULD sell their basic dress watches for that price if they wanted but don't because they don't have to, so it's not like Rolex is uniquely guilty of some transgression. Honestly, Omega and Cartier sell SS quartz watches for more than Odets' "$600-800" figure. So why would the Exp I be especially a lousy deal unless marked that far down? I smell bias. If you wanted to do this kind of "expose" of the obvious you could rip on a lot of luxury brands. The Zigmeister could easily write an article showing how the Pam 196 or Breitling Bentley are much more shameful ripoffs because they use the same ebauche as the $700 Hamilton X-Wind. But what does that really "prove"? People already know these watches use a commonly available movement and that watches cost what they cost, not what they are worth in some hypothetical perfect world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I don't know where he got the $600-800 figure from.. Like with mostly everything...watches cost what people are willing to pay (and people in general -not horologists) Companies bias people's opinions with aggressive PR campaigns, celebrity recruitments, exposure, etc etc...Wimbledon is linked to Rolex...or was the other way around? (so I then understand the $4000 figure) My first good watch, a Rolex Date 1986 still works like a charm...I love it...and I have no clue how 'clean' the 15000 was when it left the factory... I want to update it...but I'm having a hard time letting it go...it is a brand thing that works at the emotional level (and the image and perception from others). So what was my plan?...trade it in for an SD or a Sub! Rolex for Rolex...and this is knowing that there ARE other options, perharps even better options from the horological standpoint. Those PR dollars are effective after all ...I consider myself a rational individual... but deep down inside my stance defies all rational thinking: "I have to have another Rolex...I'm letting one go, I cannot get something else of a 'lesser' (perceived) value...I have to have another Rolex"...anything less than that I'll perceive it as a loss, even when in reality it may not be the case...And So now I'm waiting 12 weeks for a Rolex Sub... so this break got me thinking (for once!)... Compared side by side, dollar by dollar, hour by hour...I think other brands are a better values...IWC, Glashutte are two examples that come to mind...An IWC Portugieser in SS costs roughly what a SS SD does (IWC Potugieser)...an IWC Portofino 38mm SS goes for around $1900...Same scenario with the Glashutte senator series(Glashutte 1)(Glashutte 2)...(across the street from Lange & Sohne...basically the same company). Will we see Uma or whatever the name of the next champion of something is, wearing a Zenith? I don't know but I don't see it as a likely situation. PR dollars, marketing dollars...create fantasies that have nothing to do with the horological value of the piece...(the Rolex website has zero info on the watches) That is for connossieurs of the trade...Last week I had the opportunity to compare side by side, in my hand, the IWC Portugieser (above), the JLC Reserve de Marche (JLC), a Glashutte Senator (above), a 2006 Rolex Datejust and a Sub no date...My impression was that IWC, JLC and Glashutte are better pieces (value + finish and craftmanship + movement)... But still, what was I intending to buy....a $4700+tax Rolex...the 'cheap' sub with date? and I'm waiting in line... The upshot of the Rolex craze is that the resale and trade in value is very high ...thanks to a secondary market that is thriving...(everybody wants one and 2 or 3K is not an impossible figure)...But would I spend 10K on a SS Daytona or 5K on a SS IWC Chrono...no doubts in my mind. Bottom line? I love Rolex ...but that has to do in part with their watches. (in my case a lot has to do with the resale value too...) Al (still looking for my pills) PS: these are the two cents of an ignoramus who does not know much about the intricate designs and the evolution of watches...just one who appreciates craftmanship and attention to detail. So please accept my apologies in advance if I missed technical facts (that I cannot even start mumbling with authority). Just my two cents on the reaction at the visceral level...and this of course, applies to my own personal experience I'm sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 $600 - $800 then is worth how much today? It's hard to compare without a reference point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyclmbr Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Rolex Explorer I sold for $200 in the 1950s. I don't know what that equates to in today's dollars. I discussed that article with my watchsmith a while back. Actually, it was quite embarrasing. I started talking to him, acting like I knew what I was talking about. (That gets me into trouble every time ) He disagreed with the article, saying that Rolex is known for their finishing. He also has years of experience working on them, so he has seen the inside of a bunch of them. My take-away was that for the most part, they put out a high quality watch, but with some occasional duds. Do they spend a lot of time and money marketing it?--Hell yeah! And it works. I have my National Geographic Adventure magazine that I recieved in the mail yesterday. When I get it, I always flip through to see which Rollie they're advertising. This month, its' the black dial Exp II with Tenzig Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary on Everest. I look at that picture and I look at my EXP II rep and I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Is the watch + that feeling worth $4000? Depends on who you are? Now I'm going to go grab a Coke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Now I'm going to go grab a Coke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Rolex Explorer I sold for $200 in the 1950s. I don't know what that equates to in today's dollars. I discussed that article with my watchsmith a while back. Actually, it was quite embarrasing. I started talking to him, acting like I knew what I was talking about. (That gets me into trouble every time ) He disagreed with the article, saying that Rolex is known for their finishing. He also has years of experience working on them, so he has seen the inside of a bunch of them. My take-away was that for the most part, they put out a high quality watch, but with some occasional duds. Do they spend a lot of time and money marketing it?--Hell yeah! And it works. I have my National Geographic Adventure magazine that I recieved in the mail yesterday. When I get it, I always flip through to see which Rollie they're advertising. This month, its' the black dial Exp II with Tenzig Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary on Everest. I look at that picture and I look at my EXP II rep and I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Is the watch + that feeling worth $4000? Depends on who you are? Now I'm going to go grab a Coke! I know what you're saying about the fuzzy feeling. Nevertheless Tenzig did not wear an Exp2 to Everest. (Edmumd Hillary wasn't even wearing a Rolex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.