silly questions about the lifespan of movements

[kenmasters]

I like reps, but I'm not a movement pro... still learning, so please bare with me !

What makes Asian movements cheaper than Swiss ? In terms of life expectancy.. cheaper parts ? lack of care in putting it together ? lack of service/lubrication ?

Now, say the average lifespan of an asian movement is 5 years, if I only wear the watch 1 day/week, does this increase the life expectancy of the movement x 7 ?

Why 5 years ? Why not 10 or 20 ? Compared to Motor Vehicles, that have a life expectancy in double digits xx years (or xxxx kms).. Do you think watches are very poor in quality? If I don't drive my car, it still slowly degrades over time ! Unless I do proper preparation for storage, like taking out all the fluids, low humidity storage room, etc...

Thanks,

K

[Pugwash]

What makes Asian movements cheaper than Swiss ?

The cheaper Asian movements are simply not designed to last. Using cheaper parts and materials, you're never going to get the longevity that you'll get using parts chosen for their lifespan instead of their cost.

As for actual timelines on how long anything will last, no-one really knows. From anecdotal evidence, ETA movements will last for decades if well cared for.

[Watchmeister]

Some of the newer Asian movements do have reasonable quality parts but the issue is often how they are assembled. Pug is right that many are just plain old substandard. Any decent movement which is properly serviced should last for years. Real ETA's can last for decades. But they should be serviced every 4-5 years whether or not they are used.

[kenmasters]

So they're just plain cheaper, in either parts or assembly... if the darn thing breaks down, can they be simply serviced and brought back to life ? or is it cheaper just to get a new movement ?

How about the question in regards to usage as a factor of life expectancy ? If I let my Asian 7750 sit for a couple of years, will it break down on its own ?

[Pugwash]

How about the question in regards to usage as a factor of life expectancy ? If I let my Asian 7750 sit for a couple of years, will it break down on its own ?

Makes no difference. Running or standing, they last the same.

[milsub5517]

if you are planning to keep watch for such a long time - get an eta movement. $150-200 difference in price over the period of 5-10years is nothing...

later on, say 5 years from now, if you want to replace your broken asian mov, the eta mov may be not available (out of poduction) or really rare and expensive or at least more expensive than now...

regarding your 7750 question - if it is stored properly (not humid environment) and lubricated nothing horrible will happen to it in 2 years, especially if it just sits and not running...

So they're just plain cheaper, in either parts or assembly... if the darn thing breaks down, can they be simply serviced and brought back to life ? or is it cheaper just to get a new movement ?

How about the question in regards to usage as a factor of life expectancy ? If I let my Asian 7750 sit for a couple of years, will it break down on its own ?

[Fireman_Fred]

if you are planning to keep watch for such a long time - get an eta movement. $150-200 difference in price over the period of 5-10years is nothing...

later on, say 5 years from now, if you want to replace your broken asian mov, the eta mov may be not available (out of poduction) or really rare and expensive or at least more expensive than now...

regarding your 7750 question - if it is stored properly (not humid environment) and lubricated nothing horrible will happen to it in 2 years, especially if it just sits and not running...

Another very newbie question:

Going by what mil_sub has said, I am I right in assuming that a $300 ETA SFSO, (for example), is a far better buy than the $150 Asian equivalent and will it last more than twice as long?

[Slartibartfast]

I have some ETA and some Asian models. I know that if one of my Asian models croaks on me, that I have a good chance of getting a replacement movement for under a tenner from Cousins. So why worry? But with replacing an ETA or 7750 (or whatever) that's a different story! I guess servicing the more expensive models is the answer.

[Guest TTK]

Makes no difference. Running or standing, they last the same.

Sorry Pugs....that's not true.....the wear 'n' tear factor is what comes into play in determining the longevity of any piece of mechanical equipment......ETA's should last much longer without servicing than an Asian comparable movement.....by virtue of the higher grade materials used in the ETA ....reducing the co-efficent of friction......friction and oxidisation is what causes wear'n'tear.....if you let either watch sit for 5 years.....you may have slight colour discolouration.........in a humid atmosphere perhaps even rust......but no friction.....no wear....!

[Watchmeister]

TTK-

Agreed that lack of use will save on wear and tear on parts but I still service higher end watches irrespective of use as the various oils and seals dry out whether in daily use or not.

[andreww]

hmm, my watchsmith told me that a running watch will last longer because the movement of the parts keeps itself lubricated. He said an idle movement will tend to stiffen up. That may have been just an opinion, but I would tend to agree with TTK in that friction is the catalyst for wear. An idle watch obviously has no friction, thus no wear.

[Pugwash]

I believe oil breakdown is a huge factor and it's not based on use, just time. Yes, friction will wear down, but not in 5-10 years.

Where is The Zigmeister when we need him?

[Guest TTK]

Agreed that lack of use will save on wear and tear on parts but I still service higher end watches irrespective of use as the various oils and seals dry out whether in daily use or not.

Agreed....but you're wrong again.......as the item is unworn.......the oils used are for the purpose of reducing friction betweenmoving parts........if there are no parts moving..ergo......there is no friction....thus no wear and tear......re-lubricating will simply re-instate the watch to it's original state ......with the exception of oxidisation which is more difficult to erase.....!

I's very simple...take any mechanical item...especially one that operates on gearing principles......old pumps...tractors...car engines......leave themlying for any considerable length of time....the principle deterioration occurs in areas that are subject to oxidisation factors....rust etc etc....where problems arise are in areas that are in contact...where the oxidisation bridges the gap and forms a 'connection'......however if all the bearing surfaces are made from rust free material...the simple act of re-lubricating those areas will result in a fully working item.....with NO OPERATIONAL WEAR AND TEAR

Edited December 23, 2007 by TTK

[rek001]

OK, what about the future availability of ETA movements and replacement parts for our reps?

I can't find the exact thread but I recall a forum discussion concluding that it is better to acquire reps with cheaper asian movements because in the future you will be able to inexpensively swap them out as needed and they will be readily available, whereas the ETA movements and parts will be very tightly controlled and not available to our rep-friendly neighborhood watchsmith. Then what?

I remember that this thread gave me a bit of alarm, thinking about future servicing needs of my expensive ETA reps.

[frankt]

I have dozens of watches 40, 50, or even 60 yrs old that have gone DECADES without servicing, that still run well...age means nothing........sometimes...I wish my body held up as well as some of those watches!!

[Shundi]

I believe oil breakdown is a huge factor and it's not based on use, just time. Yes, friction will wear down, but not in 5-10 years.

Where is The Zigmeister when we need him?

Damn! That's exactly what I was thinking

[Nightstroker]

Lets not forget also that the longevity of a watch also depends upon the quality of the seals that protects the movement....when a watch is not properly sealed....moisture has a way of creeping into the case....especially in humid climates like Florida and Hawaii....when this happens....the oil breaks down and causes more strain on the movement....this is why a good watch smith will insist upon replacing all the seals when he services a watch

[crystalcranium]

I have dozens of watches 40, 50, or even 60 yrs old that have gone DECADES without servicing, that still run well...age means nothing........sometimes...I wish my body held up as well as some of those watches!!

I agree...there just isnt the wear and tear issue in a mechanical watch that there is in other mechanical devices...certainly not an automobile. Zigs has commented on this in the past and the rate limiting step with Asian movements is availability of spare parts to replace damaged ones and damage often is the result of misuse...not wear. Oil drying is time dependent running or not. I have a 100 year old Hamilton pocket watch that runs +- 10 sec/day since it was serviced. There is no reason a routinely serviced mechanical watch cannot last for decades and decades, Asian 21j's included...unless you drop one and break the balance wheel staff....then you're SOL...but you can buy a new one for $12 at clockspares.com