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This forum is for us, not for the dealers. Remember that. Some people treat them like rock stars, while they get charged a $170 premium for a dirty Swiss movement. Try to have some perspective and keep a grip on reality; you do know that there are dealers who still only charge a $60 difference for Swiss, right?

KEEPER: What is your favorite color? GALAHAD: Blue. No yel-- Auuuuuuuugh!

I have compiled this set of side by side pictures to try to explain to the membership all the differences there are between the two and hopefully finally make clear some confusion, and show the membership how easy it is to mislead buyers on parts that cannot be seen. This may take some time and many edits and picture uploads, so be patient please. Now lest get some things clear, first on ETA, I could rant on about how ETA is the largest Swiss movement maker in the world and blah blah blah, but it is easier if you read for yourself here ( http://www.eta.ch/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA ). Now that you have read a little about ETA (I hope) we can proceed. Here are some other links on the specific movement we are talking about in this thread which is the 6497 (http://www.monochrom...panerai-cimier/ and http://www.watches-w...?title=ETA_6497 ) Now you should understand that in this case Panerai does not make this movement and the fact that the 6497 has been around for over 60 years. Let me make it very clear ETA MAKES THE GUTS OF THIS MOVEMENT AND PANERAI MAKES ALL THE PRETTY STUFF THAT ADORNS IT OR DRESSES IT UP, PANERAI DOES NOT MAKE THE PARTS THAT GO INTO THIS MOVEMENT sorry about the caps but it seems many just don’t get it. Panerai OEM is ETA OEM because only ETA is licensed to produce those parts, it is all proprietary To ETA. http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6497assem.swf The 6497 has several variants and two beat rates 6497-1 = 18000vph (low beat) sec. @ 9:00 6497-2 = 21600vph (high beat) sec. @ 9:00 (Gen. Panerai use this movement in their watches, practically impossible to get and very expensive when found) 6498-1 = 18000vph sec. @ 6:00 6498-2 = 21600vph sec. @ 6:00 Most of the parts you will see here will never be seen on the watch itself because they are buried deep within the watches guts. So let’s start with the main plate, this can be considered the chassis of the watch just like on a car. Here you can see three one is REP the middle is stock ETA and right is modded to look gen. but is still a stock ETA. Most important thing to look for when a watch is advertised as Swiss is the stamp markings under the balance wheel. Only true Swiss movements have this and it is stamped not etched, the REP has no markings at all. On the 6497 there are some numbers on it but the most important thig to look for is the ETA crest stamp. I have not finished my write up, but I want to make one thing very clear. Though the parts may look very much alike, the difference is enormous in the quality of the parts. The ETA parts are a great deal superior to the Chinese counterparts. The ETA parts are made of superior metals and seem to be stronger and heftier. One obvious example is the bridge screws I have sheared off several Chinese screws with out putting any torque on them as opposed to the ETA, they are hardened and I have yet to shear one off. So please don't be fooled as too how similar they are, the main difference is in the quality and longevity of the ETA parts. Back: Front: Now let’s look at the components that go on the front of the base plate and under the dial. This consists of the list of parts pictured below, most of these parts are never seen. Slide pinion: Virtually identical Winding pinion: Also identical Setting lever: Only difference is finish Yoke: Identical Yoke spring: Identical, the ETA might be a little shiner Setting wheel and Intermediate setting wheel: Only differences is finish, ETA is smoother and shinier Minute wheel: Only difference is finish Set lever jumper: Identical, I added a modded one to show how Panerai brushes theirs, beyond that they are the same Set lever jumper retaining screw: Color is different and Rep is slightly domed on the top and ETA is flat Cannon pinion: ETA has a smother finish and brighter shine Hour wheel: Rep is shinier, however Panerai uses a brass wheel see second picture More to come, need to take more pictures to post below Now lets flip the movement and see what parts are in the back side. These parts are more important because here is where all the main mechanical parts of the watch reside. And in the case of some Panerai watches these parts are completely visible to anyone who looks at the back of the watch, and where the largest amount of "tells" are. Escape wheel Third wheel: The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Second wheel (they come with long lower pivot for second hand or short pivot for no second hand configurations): The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP.. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Center wheel:The center wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Bridge screws(bolts):The ETA is a thicker screw and has a small grip, while the REP has no grip at all. The color is different as well Barrel: Setting lever screw Crown wheel ring Crown wheel Crown wheel screw Click spring Click Click screw Ratchet Wheel Ratchet wheel screw Pallet fork: Pallet bridge: Pallet bridge screws: Balance: Panerai movement which is the ETA 6497-2 use the Glucydur balance that is made and licensed by ETA, the 6497-1 however does not. Glucydur and the balance wheel One of the trademark features of ETA movements is their Glucydur balance wheels, which look like this: Incabloc shock system: Not made by ETA but by Incabloc S.A. and used on ETA movements I hope this helps members understand the differences between the REP parts and the OEM ETA parts. Most of the parts are identical and function the same. I use the ETA parts on my builds because in some cases the ETA parts are built heftier and are obviously made with quality materials. Thanks for looking........

Just after midnight & still wearing my '39

Yep gen all day and then some, nothing at all rep on that one. Congrats, nice watch, in great shape aswell.

Bravely bold Sir Robin rode forth from Panerai He was not afraid to wind, O brave Sir Robin He was not at all afraid to be frank(en) in nasty ways Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin He was not in the least bit scared to have his sub mashed to a pulp Or to have his jewels gouged out and his split-pins broken To have his mainspring split and his lume burned away And his bezel all hacked and mangled, brave, brave Sir Robin

Looks great, one of the better ones I've seen in a while...nice pearl! Go for it! Don't worry about that stuff guys, we welcome QC here!

I really like that strap..Ordered couple different ones today for my 1665

Now go aywayyyy or we shall taunt you a second time-a!

Hey.... whatever it takes to accomplish the end result.

Omega today!

Do you think I'll get banned or told off if I post "wwwwWhat is your favourite colour?" On each new holy grail FS thread? Richard

Massive metal fan here too. My tastes have changed over the years, my first love was Black Sabbath and Metallica, then I moved into heavier harcore stuff like As I Lay Dying, Parkway Drive, All Shall Perish and Unearth etc. Now I enjoy most heavy music but am really into interesting (some would say obscure and weird!) stuff from the likes of Finntroll, Alestorm and Amon Amarth. My favorite band of all time has to be In Flames, they have gone off the boil a bit recently but the early stuff is mind blowing. Rock on fellas!

...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

Carrera Tuesday:

Its probably the best white dial panerai you can get "off the Shelf" at the moment. If like me you cant be ar5ed Buying a noob "this" and an H "That" and swaping this and that out and waiting for an overpriced EL V1 dial that was handled by Asian pixes that are now extinct or wotever to turn up on the sales section then I suggest you go for it. If you are one of those RWG'rs who are infuriated but the microscopic differences in the "A"s when compared to the genuine versions then you might want to reconsider given your (in) tolerance levels. I have old 003 It dont have the subdial circles and some may consider the numerals to be anorexic, but I like it and have never been called out on it. We deal with great value Replica watches I like to enjoy them for what they are and not what they're not.

Just a bump

Here you go, man. You deserve it!

I just finished a Bulleit bourbon that was plenty good by my exceedingly low standards.

Reverso fan here.