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Wearing my "new" vintage Seiko 5 I just did a little review check this link: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/165228-genuine-vintage-seiko-5/#entry1291489

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I inquired about the KW 417, should be in next week Sent Via Tapatalk HD

Nice to see the drsd again Nanuq, stunning color!

Nice project mate and great build.... There was never a big difference between the 6500 case and the 6502 case indeed some early Cartier cases managed to find their way in to the later series just like some PreV cases got into the PreA series... Apart from the obvious differences mentioned in trying to reshape the current cases back to a 6502 look the main area of difference in the 6502 and 6500 was the lugs and their shape as they joined to the case itself.... It used to be a running comment on Risti about a guy who shall remain nameless who would challenge at GTGs to tell the difference between the 6502 and 6500 case blind folded...most guys could never work out how he did it... but once you see the difference or know where it is.... it is in fact easier to tell by touch rather than by sight especially if on the wrist.. To me what that goes to prove and is basically my point ..is that there is little chance when you have made the main changes that one could tell on the wrist and in fact only an expert could in the hand and others only with a gen next to it... The cases on PreV and the majority of later early ones were hand finished and so small variations can be quite reasonable to expect..indeed most of the later ones were also finished by hand but in the case of the PreVs and early series cases it was more necessary as the quality and use of less than suitable cases meant it was needed...Cartier at the time and indeed OP Pre Cartier..suffered many issues with the cases and the suppliers and many were discarded then because of time and cost issues but were later reused when ideally they would not have been... It is the same with PVD finishes... These do vary... from PreV finish to the PreA and later PVD finish... again because of quality issues, supplier going belly up even different coaters etc etc so again you cannot be exact about PVD finish and look across all Models they do vary... the early PVD models from Cartier were actually blacker than the earlier PreV PVD models... and also poorer qulaity hence why you can see some very black shiny finished gens with signs of really bad wear..mainly because the hardness was poorer and the finish wore quickly and damaged easily.. In addition when considering the shape of cases in early series PAMs ... you can also see gens that have been overpolished and the shape has been changed to detract from the normally accepted differences... it is logical when you think about it as the age of these watches and the popularity of them in use has meant that many had to be refurbished at some time or another and the quality of that refurbishment was not always as good as you would expect or hope and during the polishing stage before the final colur the polishing was over cut and took more away from those details..it is the same with some CGs and levers and pins etc...some may be surprised just how easy it is to remove the steel itself when polsihing and completely change its shape... just a misused sisal wheel and some grey cutting compound could wear any metal shape to nothing.. So if you take that into account as well as the cases being hand finished... nothing can be exact and indeed this makes the case difficult to call out on the wrist... so once that is within the parameters of what is acceptable...then you are left with the dial and hands and crsytal.. Early crystals were also slightly variable so you have the same flexibility in looks as you do with cases... within reason... I am not just referring to AR but also the shape and way the crystal sits in the bezel..these did vary and so did distortion at angles as well... And so you are left with the dial and hands... of course you have a correct sized height (model and series depending) CP flattened and polsihed and the hands which were steel not brass like the PreVs..( you can alwasy tell gen PreV hands because you can see the brass colour around the CP where the hands sit..in some cases it can look like corrosion but its a trick of the eye... there were also other slight differences in thickness/the black coating/shape generally but what really sperated PreV hands from Early series hands was the lume... The hands lume on PreA into A and A/B transitionals was the lume had a slight greeny hue to them so could easily be seen from say a gen PreV hand lume as these were whiter... hand shape did vary because of the same issues as above... using up old stock, changes in supplier etc etc... but basically you would get PreV style or cartier style hands but all with that greeny hue to the lume... The best way to describe it is if you think of how an SL slightly charged but in daylight goes slightly green then thats the same you would see on a PreA etc hands without any charge. You can actually see some Ls and LM models with MN hands because the original plan to produce a new range of Sly models at the time of the take over was scrapped but a lot of those parts were still used where they could be...so again you may see hands from those scrapped models... origianlly 350 of the originall 1000 watch issue.. as you see on the millesimation on the 6500 cases... though that many were never produced... The dials themselves varied for many reasons like above... Cartier and Vendome using old PreV dials with dial type removed and replaced with cartier type but cutouts remained the same on many but as new dials were produced the cutouts became thinner and slightly varied in shape indeed several dial types looked completely different... so you factor in changes and uses of dials at that time and then add in how lume was applied.... they were not all doen at same time and were hand applied by individuals who would mix up the lume as needed...so you would get variations in the quality of the lume and its application and in the look of teh lume... some might be mixed drier others wetter (ie more or less varnish)...this would mean that the sausage lume might fall or stand in the cutout of the dial and indeed can mean that where the markers change in direction the lumer might be accurate or messy and the edges would be thicker and more rounded where the marker should actually be sharp and defined... there were also many other factors that are historically recorded that also underline the fact that many and any variables are possible in these dials and there are no rules in judging one ...within reason.. This leads to the point that nothing is black and white.... you can still see Ristis who really know PAMs since it all started and were even involved themselves in OP finding themselves backtracking on previous statements because something 'different' has popped out of the woodwork so to speak...and is gen...

I just added some pictures of the 7009A movement

Yes Yuki is a very freindly guy and he is a TD over at Repgeek, his cases sre not as expensive as Phongs or NDT, his prices round the 500-600 bucks and are great as well, not as good as Phongs but very very nice.

IWC still today

WM9 V2

72, and I love ALL of them!!! Just ordered 4 more...

Its the Breitling Avenger Blacksteel mate

http://www.tswatchltd.com/13887-ro13887.html

Woodsmoke and EP-90 gear lube. Hypoid. A little dab behind the ears drives the girls wild. The Alaskan girls.......

" In the case of small homage companies such as MKII, then there is a better chance that a TC might equal or exceed them - their resources are going to be far closer to those of a Chinese rep factory. I fact, I believe that some small watch makers outsource their manufacture to China - so they might even be made in the same factories as reps!" I don't think the QC of any of the rep factories approach that of watch companies like MKII ,Ocean 7 or a lot of the smaller shops. First off Bill Yao not only inspects every watch he gets back from Switzerland, and by the way, to have the Swiss on the dial, they do have to comply with the Swiss watch industry rules. When MKII was shipping the Kingston's, there were a lot of unhappy folks, primarily because it was taking so long to get the watches out. Every watch went through the same meticulous process, every watch was pressure tested using a "Dry" tester to the stated depth on the dial, and every watch was tested in 3 positions for accuracy. There may well be some smaller watch companies that are using parts from China, but even at that they have much better QC. The biggest difference is what you posted in your post above. The Chinese reps are made by unknown folks in unknown factories. you have very little recourse should something go wrong. Any branded watch is going to have a warranty, a contact source and someone who can take care of your problems should one arise, not necressarily so with reps, and if you don't believe it, read some of the myriad of problem posts on the various forums, written by people who got a broken watch, parts missing, screws stripped, etc. Quite often they were less than satisfied with hte customer service offerd by the dealer. Don't get me wrong, problems happen with the best. I remember a story several years ago on the Omega forum on WUS. a felow went into an Omega AD bought a brand new Omega, wore it home, and the watch stopped less than 24 hours after purchase. the fellow goes back to the AD a couple of days later, shows the watch to the sales person who asked him if he had dropped the watch? No, started acting funny a few hours after I got home, took it off and haven't put it on since. Salesman got their watchmaker to take a look, removed the caseback, couldn't see anything wrong from just a cursory exam, told the customer "we'll have to send your watch back to Bienne, have one of the factory watchmakers have look at it. How long the customer asked? Oh, probably about 3-4 months!! Customer told the manager he wanted a replacement watch or his money back. manager told him, that would be impossible as it's now a used watch. Horror story, you bet. That guy would never buy another Omega, or deal with that store, and you can bet the story got told a thousand times. So bad things can happen with the best and the worst. That horror story aside, I do think you will stand a better chance of getting good customer service from one of the branded watches. Just for comparison, here is a little pictorial "Prebuilt, what the Hell takes so long" it shows the steps that a MKII Kingston goes through from the bare case to a watch ready to ship. http://www.mkiiwatches.com/2011/11/pre-built-watches-aka-what-the-hll-takes-so-long/ I have had really good luck with my reps, by and large. However I usually factor in a movement service as part of the price if it's a watch i plan to keep for any length of time. a good watchmaker can head off a lot of potential problems with a thorough inspection and service.

At $700, I'll buy the TC. At twice more, I'd save up for a gen.

Oh, getting slightly back on topic Is there really a weight difference between the SS and Ti cases? It looks to be 85g vs 75g, which isn't really a lot, and I was expecting a bigger difference given what I've read on here about Ti being so light! I'm undecided on the Ti or brushed SS finish so advice and comments would be gratefully received

Wow that's scary.... Hope all goes well let us know what happens..