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Gilt Sub Hands... Most people put effort into their case, then the dial, the movement and the hands become an after thought. I have always thought that the dial and Mercedes hands are KEY elements and key "tells" on any vintage build budget or high end. There are so many myths surrounding what is correct, good, accepted in this world and I find learning this stuff as frustrating as everyone else, I have had to learn this stuff through trial and error (and error, and error). I get asked the question all the time when I post builds about what hands were used and read all the time "what hands are best" etc. etc. and finding a definitive answer is near on impossible because everyone says something different. I thought it was time to dispel some myths and help a whole mass of people out by showing these hands side by side. So here we go... Every hand set that I have, laid out next to each other, and all photographed to the same scale, next to a gen reference set (not my photo)... It should be noted that some of these have been aged and/or damaged, some are as delivered. Gen Hands I tried to make some general points about the gen hands, some rules that we want to get close to Points *1 - The second hand should have a tapered end The lollipop should have the same size of the base of the hour hand and be roughly twice the width of the minute hand *2 The walls of the hour hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot The height of the shaft should be slightly SHORTER than the diameter of the Mercedes sign *3 - The diam of the Mercedes sign should be roughly a third bigger than the base *4 - The size of the Mercedes lume plot should be as big as the diameter of the hole (however the hole sizes differ, gen is 0.8 and ETA is 0.95mm) *5 - The length of the "point" should be more than half the diameter of the Mercedes sign and a third of the width at the base *6 - The distance from the hole to the start of the lume plot on the minute hand should be short *7 - As with the hour hand the walls of the minute hand shaft should be almost half the thickness of the lume plot *8 - The distance from the end of the lume plot to the start of the point should be small, approx 2x the width of the side wall There are more observations that can be made but these are the main ones. All Together The comparison candidates - Left to Right 1. Gen reference. It is important to say that this is a reference image and is not my photo. I have scaled this to an approximate same size as the other based on knowing the size of the hour hand hole (. compared to the other ETA (.95) 2. HR New - 2015 these are the replacement hands that HR currently have, the minute hand is not long for their oversized dial. However the hour hand is better than the older ones. 3. HR OLD - circa 2014. The minute hand is long for the HR oversized dial and the dimensions to a gen minute hand are almost perfect. A MUST for an oversized dial. (HR is apparently getting these back in stock but this is unconfirmed at time of writing) 3. Clarks Tudor Sub hands for ETA 2015 - These new hands are excellent and in fact probably the best of all for a very reasonable price $20 USD inc shipping 4. Tiger Concept (OnlineStoreHK). These are the clear looser, terrible in fact. Only buy these for the lollipop second hand if MY is out of stock. 5. Michael Young (Classic Watch Repair CWR) - An excellent set of hands that comes with 2 lollipop second hands, a gilt one and a white one. These hands have an excellent finish but the edges are not sharp and the lume job is terrible and hanging over the edge of the hands. At $65 + $28 Shipping these are the most expensive hands here and I would say, from a shape perspective, only slightly better than the $20 Clarks hands. It should also be noted that the hands shown are for a gen movement, not ETA. But MY used to stock these for ETA but he was out of stock when I asked. 6. Clarks Vintage Sub hands for 157x - I am including these because i have them, I struggled to broach these and ended up bending them. A good shape but now superseded by his Tudor Sub hands for ETA builds. Hour Hands Minute Hands Conclusion I hope it is clear to see that many of these hands are "wrong" not close to vintage sub hands AT ALL. The Tiger concept hands are in last place, however, these come with a lollipop second hand. The winners are Clarks and Michael Young if you don't want a lillipop second hand Clarks is the hands down winner. But it must be noted that by the time you buy a set of Clarks Tudor Sub hands and a set of Tiger's to get a lollipop second hand, you are basically at the same price as the MY hands (if he has them in ETA) An additional note must be made for HR "oversized" dials, for this dial there really is only 1 minute hand, the old HR hand as it will correctly reach the chapter ring on the dial as it should. PLEASE NOTE, I am talking solely about vintage early sub GILT hands here. By the time we get into 5513s particularly the silver hands and most definitely the later ones, the design of the hands has changed very slightly. Many of the gilt hands from the 5512 and early 5513 appear to be the same as the "6538" or "50-60s" era hands I am comparing, maybe these were old stock at the time?. But as the years move forward it is easy to see changes in particular the side walls of the hands get thicker, so if you are doing those builds this reference will not hold up. I hope this helps and means you don't have to buy all of the damned hands that I have bought Kime

Gen spider dial, gen 2836, gen crown & gen bezel insert & gen clasp. Case has been reshaped & re engraved with correct markings.Three complete GMT reps & numerous parts before one could be found that takes a gen dial.

There has been a lot of interest lately in domed Tropic crystals, so I thought I'd do a quick photo comparison. I attempted to show what they look like from low oblique angles and then slightly higher, so you can see how the distortions change with viewing angle. All of these are genuine vintage tropic crystals except the CWP tropic 19 on the Frosty Flake. The 1665 Sea Dweller wears a tropic 39 "Superdome", the 6538 Big Gonzo wears a tropic 17 "Superdome", and the 6536/1 Mini-Gonzo wears a tropic 16 "Dome". To start off, here's a group shot with the Frosty Flake down front, then left to right, the Mini-Gonzo, the Big Gonzo and the SD. At this point the only crystal that looks fake is the genuine 39 on the SD. Next up is the tropic 19 vs. tropic 39, from a low angle and then higher. Next is the tropic 19 high dome vs. the tropic 16 low dome. Now lets look at the tropic 19 vs. the tropic 17. Tropic 19 vs. tropic 39 again. And now in one smooth sweep from low to high, all four together. Compare the distortions at different angles. Et voila'. I hope this will help you decide which tropic to choose for your build, and will show the optical properties of each.

Delighted to receive this stunning IWC Tourby today so snapped a few shots to share. Really well made and looks a superb watch :-) AJ

Best wishes for your daughter Nanuq. My daughter is a wildfire tech(fire fighter) here in Northern Ontario, her crew has been put on alert, for possible deployment in Alaska. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for a safe future for both our daughters.

wtf... you must have really small wrists! jk Nice haul!.. how much are they worth if you sold them, if you dont me asking?

This is the reason why this place is so useful to consult: wonderful posts like this one... Thank you, Kime.

On the road with the BC Sent from my droptop using telepathy

Feel very sorry for you, fellow countryman. Should you need a real vintage Rolex modder, PM me and I'll gladly get you in contact with the best in Europe.

This Carbotech is such a great watch :-) AJ

Very nice ! Great work.

not bad at all

Remember that no one recommends sending a watch back to china. For the obvious reason, it takes forever. What you should do is find someone in your city or country that works on reps. Then take it and spend $20 or $30 to get it fixed. Not only do you get it done quickly, you have started a relationship with a watchsmith. Then in the future you can get those minor problems fixed. Remember, it's a fake, you only paid 1/10th or less of the price of a gen. Expect you may have a problem from time to time. Your solution to bash a good dealer is the wrong one.

Wow, great looking piece.

I got her in an M2M deal however the TD's can get them for you, circa $750 and then you need a proper strap :-) AJ