Leaderboard

Just wanted to fire up a thread on a 6541 Milgauss build as I get started with it and progress through it. Wanted to share some initial QC pics of the dial and case, etc. Literally all the components of the build is en route to me and needed parts start showing up first thing next week... (Some inspiration for the build:) Dammit Slay... A genuine 6541 Milgauss is an extremely rare bird indeed with auction estimated well into the six figures if and when they even do pop up on the auction block. Accordingly, a 6541 build of your own can get EXTREMELY expensive. Maybe not a quarter mil like a gen, but still... There are few case options out there for vintage Milgauss builds and what is out there is pricey. More with this build than some others perhaps, but the case, as much as the dial, makes or breaks this project. The case is especially important because of the unique internal construction of its Farraday cage shielding the movement from potentially harmful magnetic fields. Aside from the frankly terrible budget (Cartel?) out-of-the-box versions of the 6541 that are floating around, you're left with what appears to be pretty much just two (albeit two very good) case set options: Phong or MQ. And if you've ever looked into the case prices of either, you start to understand why so few people endeavor upon these builds - Minh Q's case comes in at around $1250 and Phong's around $1800(!) iirc. So before you even start looking for dials you're already in the hole for over a grover. Damn... Now, I'm not one to skimp on my builds, but this was already staring to look like a money pit even if this is essentially a mid-shelf "budget" version of a Milgauss build LOL. So I put the idea of the build on the back burner for a while and turned my attention back to the gen-dialed 1016 build I'm working on. That is until I saw Slay's sales post with his absolutely STUNNING 6541 franken build. Slay spared no expense, MQ case and dial, gen 1030 movement, gen hands, the works... My jaw hit the ground. It was damn near perfect and now I had to build one. So I re-started my search and began weighing my case and dial options in earnest once again. Dial As luck would have it, a "new" guy had popped up on Instagram about 6 months ago peddling high end rep dials and a few cases, Tonnywatches. I started following him and was pretty impressed with the quality of the dials he was posting; "Vietnam" dials that were, to my eye anyways, on par with or very close in quality (maybe even the same?) to the dials Minh Q offers (some of the better aftermarket dials for many builds imho), but at less than half the price in some instances. I'm always weary of new sellers (who isn't, right?) but his 6541 dial looked an awful lot like MQ's and it cost about 40% of what the MQ dial costs so I said what the hell and pulled the trigger and purchased one. Looks pretty good to me; the coroner is so-so, but I have a gen white gold dial coronet to replace that one, and I'm might give those lume plots a very understated aging/re-lume. Love the fade on the reddish-pink Milgauss text and the SCOC printing/spacing looks pretty good compared to reference photos of gen dials. Certainly not "perfect" in any sense of the word, but pretty good all things considered and again looks almost identical to the $750 MQ dial. The printing is a little heavy handed and they didn't get the "crippled" R in Perpetual right amongst other minute details, but you really can't beat it for the price. Hands Only one really strong option imho for the 6541's characteristic thunderbolt seconds hand and that's Michael Young at CWP. Looks great and it's long enough to extend into the dial's minute track as per gen. The hour and minute hands, however, are the leaf-shaped hand type with the lume and I want to fit a set of the no lume all-metal "leaf" hands that were also fitted to the 6541. Luckily for me, Offrei offers the near-exact same style hands in an array of sizes and fit for ETA so they'll be compatible with my movement choice and I can get the lengths just right (like a 12.5-13mm minute hand extending into the track like the seconds hand). I'm going to remove the red paint from the thunderbolt tip and age the hands with some sulfur, acids, and some light abrasives. The below reference photo of a gen shows the style, length and aging of the hands I'm going for: Since I'm using an ETA movement (more on that in a minute) I won't have to broach the hands either (which I have an atrocious track record with). Might have been the easiest sourcing yet: a quick email exchange with Michael, payment sent and hands on their way in a matter of days. Ordered a spattering of differently sized and shaped leaf hands from Offrei. They were so cheap I was able to buy enough that I'll be able to make sure I get the aged look correct and possibly file down a larger sizes minute hand to match the length of the CWP thunderbolt. Case When I was going back and forth with Tonny about the dial, I happened to dig a little bit deeper into his Instagram and saw that he actually had a 6541 case set he was offering mixed in amongst the photos of his various small crown, big crown, etc. cases. It looked pretty good in the photo he posted and I already had some experience with one of his 5508 case sets that I had purchased for a friend of mine, so I knew the quality was pretty good and that, generally speaking, his cases were pretty gen-spec. For sure, some modifications would have to be done (lug bevels need some tlc for instance), but again the price was right especially considering the case construction had the correct Farraday cage that is central to getting this build right. All said, case set and dial would cost me less than half of what just a Phong case set would've cost me. So again, I pulled the trigger and asked Tonny for some quick QC pics before making my purchase: (Photo from Tonnywatches Instagram:) (QC photos:) You get the idea... Pretty good if you ask me, but still much work to be done. The dial/cage construction is correct and I'm comfortable re-doing the perlage on the Farraday cage back. The only thing not pictures (which is, in fact, included with the case) is the cross-shaped metal tension "spring" that seats into the inside of the case back and keeps the cage snugly sandwiched together around the movement protecting it from magnetic field variations (well, in theory anyways haha). Other than that, I'll weigh my options on having the mid case re-shaped/thinned and maybe re-do the lug bevels. Should make a good base though for sure... Bezel, Insert, Crown, etc. Some of the finer details of the case set have yet to be seen since I'm still waiting on it to show up from Tonny, but there are some modifications that are inevitable: Gen crown is an easy one,; already have a few various 6mm gen crowns in the parts drawer and a gen 602 tube which are way less problematic than installing a 600 tube which would have been "more" correct for a 6541. No question, a 602 would've been installed during a service however, and requires no broaching/modification prior to install. I picked up a gen T-16 beveled service crystal, and as luck would have it, also happen to have an aftermarket domed T-16 from Phong sitting gathering dust. I love the look of the Milgauss with its domed crystal, but much prefer the practicality of the lower-profile beveled service so it'll be nice to have both should I ever decide to switch between one or the other. The insert that comes with the Tonny case is suspect and I had already acquired a Phong 6541 insert before I got the case, so I'm going to give the Tonny insert some heavy aging for a more worn-in/beat up look for the watch should I ever want it. The Phong insert is pretty spot on; the only thing I might do to it is bleach out the red triangle a little bit and give it a good fade. The bezel ring looks pretty suspect in the QC pictures as well, but I'll have to wait to have it in hand before I can see if it's up to snuff with the shape of the coin edge or if I'll be able to properly age it to give it an older, polished worn-in look. Tonny assured me its plates brass so I'll be able to sand/age/tarnish/polish the bezel and take it down to the brass in what I feel is a more appropriate look for a half-century old watch. If the bezel construction or shape isn't good enough however, I'll just buy one from MQ as I feel his is just a tiny bit better than the one Phong offers and both are pretty solid stand-ins for the genuine article. Yet again neither option is cheap (see a theme developing here?), so I'm hoping the Tonny bezel passes muster. The case should be here in a week so I'll know for certain then. The engravings also look a little iffy in the QC photos, and if they're too are not good enough then hopefully I can send the mid and back to JMB to be re-done. Plenty of bracelet options as I've got both an NDT and Yuki 7206 waiting in the wings and picked up this really nice NOS StyleCraft 20mm tropic rubber strap that I think will look good on either my 1016 or the 6541 for a more subdued look that's still somewhat substantial and fitting for the era of the watch to a certain degree: Movement As you can see, I've already got a decent amount invested into this build, and as nice as it might be to put a cal. 1030 into a build like this, it just doesn't seem all that practical to me because: a) the Farraday cage covers the movement so you don't see it, b ) sourcing parts and servicing a 1030 movement is becoming increasingly difficult and cost prohibitive, and c) I plan on wearing this watch. A lot. And the ETA 2782 I'm using is far more rough & tumble-ready than the 1030. I found a brand new NOS watch with a 2782 that had been sitting untouched and unused in storage for the last few decades. It's in really great shape, and after a good cleaning and oiling, will run like a dream. The 2782 has a nice low beat rate, good stem height, good canon pinion height, and the same Kif shock absorbers Rolex would later use in its 1500-series movements so it should be able to handle a fair amount of wear and tear. I got a Yuki 1030 ETA movement ring to make it fit in the case correctly, and one of the only internal modifications I'll need to do is notch out the middle ring of the Farraday cage so the movement clamps can seat the movement in the case properly. The Farraday cage is 3 parts: the interior case back, the middle ring section with a small opening for the winding stem, and the dial (the bottom side of which "completes" the cage by capping over the movement and lining up flush with the middle ring section. Like the Phong dial and cage, the dial has no feet so as long as I can get the cage pieces to line up properly and get the movement with the Yuki adapter seated firmly in the cage install should be relatively painless. All things considered, once I have all the pieces in front of me the assembly will go rather quickly hopefully. I'll update this thread as o go along with each part of the build so hopefully I can glean some insight from others and maybe be the "guinea pig" with one of these Tonny cases (and dial for that matter). Stay tuned...

Don't go for the Clark T19, it distorts the rehaut. The CWP T19 is waaaay better! Naturally more expensive though.

Since I want to build a 5513 based on a cartel case with a yuki dial I want to ask the experts which of both dials is more accurate (font, indices, spacing etc.). I am either going with the dial with the eta dial feet or the one with the rlx movement feet. So I would highly appreciate if an expert could chime in. I have no problem with clipping the dial feet so I don't care whether they are located for an eta movement or not. No. 1 for rlx movement - ft first https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/Rolex-Submariner-5513-white-lume-Matt-dial/p/59975517/category=6702269 No. 2 for eta movement - meters first https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/Rolex-submariner-5513-dial-white-lume-for-ETA-movement/p/35196164/category=6702300 Cheers

Going gen today.

Add a ClassicWatchParts T19 / Clarks T19 Superdome (if you're already ordering from Clarks and want to save in on the dineros)

Beautiful piece. This build is awesome! Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

So a good recipe for 5513 could be Cartel case, Helenarou dial, either TC hands or Clark hour/minute with Cartel seconds, Athaya 702, and call it a day. Is the case back acceptable? I've read so many differing opinions that I'm not sure. Oh, and I'm assuming this is all for ETA clone and not for the 21j version. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Beautiful, it's interesting to imagine the history of this watch. It looks like it's seen some life.

Hooked 7

Nice- it looks well worn.

+ 1 Stunning piece ! ZW

This is the source I use, it lists the heights and diameters as well as the pinion sizes. http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2846

Bienvenido. Apuesto mi Español es peor que su Inglés.

This is none of my beeswax but imho the MBW/MBK cases are pretty close to genuine to start with. I would not have one modified but many do...and that is their business. How much they pay is also their business. To me, this badly bent 'hobby' is meant to save $$. One way for me to save $$ is not to have a case modified that is pretty close to begin with. My other peeve is 'aging' watches...I just wear them and they age quick enough. Btw, an artificially aged watch will hardly ever sell for as much as an unaltered example. Compare the value of an original MBW 5512/13/1680 that has been worn for a couple years with one that may be newer but with the edges ground down and intentional nicks/scratches all over it. Restoring bevels and shaping crown guards is another story because it is one way to correct common faults, but it must be done correctly. We are lucky to have members good enough to work on bevels on high value cases and shape/weld crown guards etc and from what I have seen, these guys do better work than the 'professionals' who restore high $$ genuine watches. If you want the best job, find someone who has mastered a certain skill for a hobby, not someone who has to do it every day for a living.

One on the right, the slightly darker blue is the rep p.s. you know you stole my preferred avatar don't you?