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On leather today.

It is a watch so rep, that the other rep watches huddle together on the other side and throw rocks at it.

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Automatico makes a very good point. As far as I am aware he is correct about vintage Rolex patents. So the way around is to look at having a genuine case scanned and CNC copied without engraving in a small batch. So far so legal. Then once the case is sold to a member, that member could have it engraved. If it is not for sale or profit and for one's own use, one can copy anything, trademark or not. Then the only legal problem is if and when an individual wants to sell a piece, but that is no different from the current situation.

"Since it's illegal to create 1:1 replicas technically..." The patents are long dead on vintage rolex 5512/13, 1680 etc so making one that is 100% accurate to genuine is perfectly legal as long as it is not signed/trademarked. That is how ST and others get by with selling submariner and DJ cases. Otoh, super accurate trademarked cases are...expen$ive!...as we all know. The things that are hard to get right for non CNC shops would be the inner/outer bezel fit, proper flutes on the bezel, threads on the case and case back, lug hole location, inner machining for the movement to fit correctly, and case back stamping and engraving...stamping and engraving the rolex logo being the only thing that is illegal. My guess is many 'specialists' buy what is fairly close on the open market with stampings and then make it very close. I have a thread cutting device with automatic feed on my miniature lathe and with the proper cutter bit, case and case back threads can be precisely cut. It is nerve wracking but entirely possible. My guess is the case and case back threads in non CNC shops are done with a device similar to what I have if they do not buy parts already threaded. With a bit of practice, most of us could turn a case that is 'pretty close' into one that is 'very, very close' provided the stampings and engravings are good to begin or we have someone who can do the engraving. Case back stampings would be the hardest of all and it needs to be done before the case back is finish machined/polished. One reason I bought a few DW cases is that for the price, they have pretty good case back stamping and I use them on MBK cases. There was a catch (always is) and it turned out DW cases came with two different case/case back thread sizes no matter if supposed to be a 5513 or 1680 case and the case back thread sizes are random. Besides that, all DW cases are 1680 spec even if signed 5513. One size is oem/MBK spec and the other is a bit bigger. MBK cases are laser etched and look pretty bad compared to a stamped case back so DW case backs spiff them up a little.

I know what you mean man. I've also tried MQ and yuki. Their cases also require rework (like phong) but yuki costs half the price of phong. MQ is typically $200-300 cheaper than phong (but his communication is all over the place). So one could potentially buy a cheaper yuki or MQ case and have the CGs/lugs reworked? Best bet is actually trying to convince phong that his CGs need thinning before shipment.

"As others have said, Phong is a hit-or-miss affair." Imho most of the characters we have to deal with in this goofball hobby are this way. DW for instance. In my experience Yuki seems to be the most consistent and reliable, not the highest grade maybe, but dependable. Otoh, I have a Phong 1655 case from 4 or 5 years ago that is first class but that is the only Phong case I ever had. In general, if someone wants something done right...they have to learn to do it themselves, dbane bevels for instance. I say this because anyone who wants extraordinary work should not expect it from someone who turns out good work one time and shoddy work the next. Frankenstein builders must also come to terms with the fact that they can not make a genuine watch using replica parts...case, dial, and bracelet come to mind, not to mention clone movements. The watch may appear to be genuine but it is not, and in reality it really makes little difference until it is put up for sale. Otoh again, I have noticed many posters on the 'Serious Collector' forums (VRF etc) are getting more suspicious every week and are not as sure as they used to be in knowing if their precious vintage watch is 100% genuine or maybe only 90% genuine because the lines are rapidly getting blurred by higher quality replica and generic parts. edit 8-6: "So this man ask $$$ for random bad cases..." Anyone could see those shotgun barrel lug holes from 2 feet away. When someone worries about one of their projects with a $200 case not being as close to genuine in appearance as they would like...just remember $1200+ cases can turn out to be like this one. "Also, the lughole locations can be somewhat inconsistent." I find this in replica cases from many sources. I have to resort to curved spring bars, reshaped hood tops, inner tubes being removed etc...it's all hit or miss. That's why I bore lug holes to 1.3mm...so curved spring bars will not be in a bind. "maybe this is the way they come from vietnam, where I suspect his factory is." Probably. I wonder if this is where Yuki cases come from? I'm pretty sure DW cases came from J C Whitney.

It took me a while to get all the parts I wanted, but here it is, 5 months of work paid off! When you start a project like this, you ultimately end up buying more parts than you need, often as part of bundles or because you're getting a better deal on them that way. I have another 4-Liner that I finished today, will follow-up with photos of that one soon Big shoutout to nanuq, cc33, dbane and kime for helping me with advice throughout the process. Case+Bezel: Vietnam/Phong/dbane Crown: Gen Rolex Bevels+CaseWork: dbane Movement: Gen Rolex Cal 1030, winding mechanism serviced by me Dial: custom MQ Lume: custom MQ (plot at 6 is slightly whiter to mimic the radium plots usually found @6) Hands: Michael Young Crystal: Clarks T19, shaved down to reduce height Stem: Gen Rolex Assembly: me I have to point out the beautiful work dbane did on cutting the FAT bevels, because the bevels looked like absolute total [censored] when I got the case (I was sold a lemon). The early 6538's had these fat bevels and they they are really part of makes the watch unique. Getting a beautiful GILT dial was probably one of the hardest tasks. I had lots of back and forth with MQ and only thanks to the eagle eyes of nanuq, cc33 and dbane was I able to catch damage done to the initial dial I was offered. In the end, MQ made a completely new dial for, which really makes the watch. The next best thing would be an ivan dial, but his dials are twice as expensive at around $2k and I had to make choices so that the cost for this build wouldn't get completely out of hand! Anyway, here are the pictures: