OK calm down every one, we are all learning, even when the most lerned of us still askes advice, what do we prove? that we can type with more force!
This is a very complex subject with more misteries than a crime story on fox, Ziggy showed us for a bit of interest, he has no agenda as far as i know we have aske and he has shown as much as he feels he can, lets join our knoledge not bash heads against each other.
@ POTR i was refering to the hands of the ziggy watch, i know what daufine and batton hands are. I posted a retorical question, unless the designer is here?