freddy333

If you are purchasing a rep specifically for diving/swimming, then, as soon as it arrives (before its first dunk in the drink), take it to a certified watchmaker & have him waterproof & test it. Then have it tested at least once each year for 5 years. Then have it serviced again. If you are purchasing a rep to wear, I would play it safe & keep the watch away from direct contact with water (that includes washing your hands). I just got finished delivering the bad news (& a totaled watch) to an owner who showered with his watch after being assured that his watch was water resistant to 10 meters. Never trust, always verify, and better safe than sorry.

My watch, purchased 3.5 years ago on CQout appears to be the same as the watch watch-ebay is selling. 1.The chrono functions (all of them) have worked since the day I received the watch, but the running seconds on every secs at 6 7750 I have seen (including mine) IS a bit erratic (due to imprecise machining & insufficient number of jewels to support the additional subdial-relocation gearing). 2.Case & bracelet quality are the same as Joshua's & most of the other secs at 6 Daytona reps. Good, but the finish can (and should) be improved with a bit of rouge & a few minutes going over with a dremel (or, possibly, a Cape Cod cloth, but I always use rouge & a dremel, so I cannot verify this). 3.If you are referring to the lug holes lining up with the end links, no. None of them seem to be placed in the right location. Getting the bracelet on or off these cases is a b-i-t-c-h & a half. But if you are asking whether the bracelet end links line up properly between the case lugs, you tell me (my watch (case/bracelet are same as watch-ebay) at right, powdered graphite test watch (still running), at left)

Yes, please.

True, but I believe the beveled portion that lies outside the notches will provide sufficient rise & clearance for the 7750's rotor. I am sure that at least a few RWG members (who are comfortable removing casebacks) have a 5512 & a Daytona. Hopefully, 1 of them will read this & consider a test swap to see if the 5512's caseback fits the Daytona.

I think you are either confused or debating minutia here. Some of the gen 1165xxs may have a small band of polished metal between the brushed portion and the notches that fit the caseback tool, but the caseback is essentially brushed & flat. If you compare the caseback from either gen -- 116520 or 16520 -- to any of our reps, you will see what I am referring to. And either style of gen caseback would be a significant improvement over the current beveled rep caseback, which no gen Daytona was fitted with. Here is another 116520 (not 16520) from 2001-2002, which is the version that our reps are based on. Again, if you compare the caseback from either of the gen Daytonas to the 5512 in the 1st post, I think you will agree that the 5512 (if you ignore the engraving, which I would sand off) looks considerably closer to either gen caseback than does any of our standard rep Daytona casebacks. Here is Joshua's caseback (the polished areas are beveled, not flat) To be clear, I am not talking about the part of the caseback outside the notches, just the center area within the caseback tool notches. This is entirely flat & mostly brushed on the gens, but beveled on the reps. I think the 5512 (without the engraving) is much closer to the gens. And that is all I am saying.

The methadone treatment center.

If the engraving on the caseback from this $98 5512 from Joshua (case Dia 41mm x 12mm Thk) were sanded off it would look very much like a proper gen Daytona caseback (ignore the engraving -- this gen was presented to 1 of the Daytona race winners - the standard Daytona caseback is the same minus the engraving) which is what is missing from all of our Daytona 1165xx reps (case Dia 40mm x 13.5mm Thk) The questions are whether the caseback is the correct diameter & whether the threads match the Daytona cases? Are there any Daytona 1165xx rep owners that have 1 of these 5512s also who may be able to see if the casebacks are interchangeable?

2 questions VRF - Do you mean the Sales Corner on Timezone (they do not sell anything in the Vintage Rolex Forum)? Your caseback - Which watch is this & from which collector? I will bet that FLAT caseback will fit a certain group of 1165xx Daytona reps that currently have the wrong (beveled) caseback.. And if the polish is brushed, we may have a winner.

VRF?

Just a quick thought, but you might just cement the center chrono secs hand to the inside of the crystal. Under normal viewing, it should look normal (as long as you are judicious with the cement application).

I would bet that 1 of the parts houses sell a standard 3-hand off-the-shelf mechanical movement with running seconds at the 6 o'clock position that one might be able to shoe-horn into a 1165xx rep case & dial with a bit of dremel surgery and/or spacer rings. Then just cement the remaining subdial hands to the dial & you have a pseudo-tona. Never tried it myself (and have no interest in doing so), but it might be worth a shot for someone to try if that is your cup of tea.

Shades of Canal Street. Not a watch that I would wear, but if you are willing to accept them for what they are (obvious knock-offs), this is the one to get. I would surmise a guess that the seller can probably get the watch fitted with other brand names on the dial.

I think that eventually the factory will get tired of taking returns on these dead secs at 6 7750s & finally bite the bullet and redesign the movement with the additional jeweling that Ziggy spec'd. I agree that that would probably eliminate most of the issues that relate to the extra gearing that relocates the subdial functions. Of course, they would have to up the retail price tag by $50, but I doubt many buyers would balk at that if a potential door stop was the cheaper alternative.

I doubt that any of the dials from 7750-based reps will fit that quartz movement, but I guess if you are ingenious & driven you could just glue the misaligned hands directly to the dial. But I would not be caught dead wearing that watch the way it is, so I am not quite sure what you would achieve with this.......other than having a fairly reliable quartz-driven Daytonamobile.

I am as confident as a guy can be with 1 win under his belt & just 2 weeks of follow-up observation. So far, so good, but the powdered graphite has brought exactly 1 watch back from the dead, which is why I have been including disclaimers stating that this is NOT a proven remedy. I believe the theory is sound & it worked (once) in practice, but needs alot more testing on alot more dead or dying watches before I can be confident in its efficacy (to use the parlance of the medical community). Unfortunately, I do not work on enough of these watches (or have time to), but Ziggy may. And he would be a better judge of their long-term survival since he is alot more familiar with these movements than I am. Also, I have never done a 100% teardown/rebuild of an Asian secs at 6 7750 (but I may soon) & I think that would be a minimum requirement for further testing. That is, take a dead/dying 7750, do a complete overhaul & apply the powdered graphite during the rebuild. Then see how it goes. The watch I fixed was never completely overhauled -- I just did the chrono/automatic wind module and the keyless works -- so if it dies again, there could be a number of causes, some having nothing to do with the extra secs at 6 gearing that the powdered graphite fix addresses.

Sticking with this since dinner last night

Ubi -- Apply some clear nail polish to the underside of that 904L & your skin will thank you. A wise old watchmaker gave me that tip.

To cover all the bases, the following 2 pictures illustrate the differences between the gen & rep casebacks. This is similar to the beveled caseback that is fitted to every 1165xx Daytona rep I have seen I could not find a good picture of a gen 1165xx Daytona caseback, but this picture of a gen 1165xx Daytona given to winning Daytona drivers will give you an idea what they look like (just ignore the engraving) There is no beveling in the circular area within the notches on the gen Daytona casebacks, the caseback is mostly flat across the back with a brushed finish (vintage Daytona casebacks were smaller & polished).

No, I do not think that is the same. I can tell by the rotor, the finish of the movement & the shape of the CGs. The early movements had the strangely decorated rotor & alot of shiny bits on the movement. King's is what I call the 2nd generation -- these had the plain rotor & a more brushed & substantial looking movement (I have never weighed the movements, but these 2nd-generation 7750s feel noticeably heavier than the earlier versions when you hold them - this may be a benefit if you have a 'gold' Daytona rep, since the gold gens are quite a bit heavier than the gold-plated reps). I have seen a number of these & they appear to be similar to the current (3rd) generation, which is what Joshua sells (but with a nicer rotor & dial). Compare the CGs on Kings or any other seller except this watch-ebay one. The watch-ebay watch is the only one I have seen in 3 years of searching that has the correct low-profile case like mine. I posted this picture in a thread early last year, but I cannot find it now. The watch-ebay (and my) case on the right, all the other 1165xx Daytona rep cases look like Joshua's, which is on the left. Note the difference in both the thickness of the case, but also the flat lower edge. In contrast, my case (on right) has the same gentle concave shape as the gen case. The bezel, too, while not perfect, is closer in size/profile to the gen than is/are the current crop of rep bezels Not a big difference, but it is noticeable when the watch is on your wrist.

Well, you found that website that sells the 1165xx with the right case, and I have been searching for those watches for years. So it obviously does not matter how long you have been doing this. It is all luck & timing. So we just have to get lucky & find a source for those flat Daytona casebacks......and I am sure they are out there somewhere.

That would probably work since the engraving on rep casebacks is not very deep (which is 1 of the ways to identify them as reps vs the rare gen 'WINNER' watches, which have much deeper (hand) engravings). Do you know of a source for these casebacks with the engraving? All the 'WINNER' casebacks I have seen were the same beveled style that comes on these reps anyway.

Probably a good place for it.

And your pair of franken lovelies just reminded me of something that I forgot to mention in the original post -- I would also recommend polishing the polished parts (not the brushed sections) of the bracelets on these 116520 reps with a dremel & some green & red rouge. This will help to smooth out most of the 'grainy' appearance of the bracelets that come with all these reps. I can usually tell a gen 1165xx from a rep by the way the light reflects off the polished parts of the bracelet. After modding it, the difference is much less noticeable.

Just to be clear, the total cost is closer to $650 or $700 than it is to $500 (unless we can get either or both of the sellers to give us a more reasonable rate for a group buy (I would buy another of the watch-ebay watches if it could be had at around $200)) & I agree that it is alot of hassle. But I think the results speak for themselves for those of us with more money than sense.

NOTE - YOU will need to research current site locations as they have changed since this article was written. STEP 1 Get 1 of these (this watch has a nearly perfect dial & rotor, but its case is too thick or high-profile) and remove the movement from the case (release the stem (gently press the button in blue) & remove the 2 case straps/screws (marked in red)) STEP 2 Get 1 of these (this watch has a (more correct) low profile case & potentially heartier, 1st-generation secs at 6 7750 (note that the evidence for this is purely anecdotal & is NOT scientific), but the dial is a bit 'off) (Note the additional metal below the crown & shape of the CGs - the low-profile cases all look like this) and remove the movement from the case (release the stem & remove the two case straps/screws) (There may be exceptions to this rule, but all of the movements in the low-profile Daytonas I have seen (several) had this same rotor. So if you see a Daytona rep with this movement, it is likely the 1st generation secs @ 6 A7750) STEP 3 Remove the hands, dial & rotor (held on by 1 screw) from both movements, but keep track of which parts came from which watch (very important). Onto the 2nd (Idolreplicas') movement, install the dial & rotor from the 1st (Perfect-Clones) movement & reuse the same hands (essentially, you are just swapping the dial & rotor from the 1st watch onto the movement from the 2nd watch. You should now have a heartier movement with a very accurate dial & rotor. STEP 4 Modify the CGs of the 2nd watch's case to match this gen (file or grind down the extra metal below the base of the crown & reshape the CGs) STEP 5 Reassemble the watch & you should now have a watch that looks like this (and a spare that contains most of the flaws that were previously spread out between the original 2) (Hands, shirt, jeans & boots sold separately) (Note the correctly shaped CGs & the (correct) shallow rehaut, which are due to the case's lower profile & placement of the movement) Now, if someone knows of a source for a correct (flat, brushed) caseback (and, possibly, a slightly lower-profile (gen) bezel as the final icing on the cake)........ __________ Alternatively, to save a bit of work playing musical hands & dials, you can just swap the movement from the 1st watch into the 2nd watch's case & leave it at that. I think the hands on the 2nd watch are a bit more accurate than the 1st watch, but we are talking minute differences here. And, like I said, there is no factual evidence that the earlier generation of secs at 6 7750s (in the 2nd watch) were any more reliable than the current versions. This opinion is based entirely on my observation that many more of the old style secs at 6 7750s seem to still be running years after they were purchased vs the recent versions which seem to die within a few months. This is just a gut feeling on my part, so do not flame me if your watch is an exception to the rule. But I would like to know your experience if you have 1 of these early versions that may be identified by the unique rotor design. While the movements are removed, you might also consider applying some powered graphite as explained here (the watch described in that thread has now been running (to within COSC standards) for about 2 weeks)