freddy333

Unless the US economy does a very quick and decided turn-around, which appears unlikely in the near term, I believe the bottom is about to fall out of the collectible watch market. A similar thing happened just after the stock market crash of October 1987.

The watch is 100% gen. As for judging the perceived value of a gen over a rep, I can only say that is was worth the price in time, effort and money to me. But keep in mind that I built this franken myself. If you factor in the cost of paying someone else to construct it for you, you might as well consider buying a used gen. That way, you can take it to your local AD or RSC for servicing without worry (since the watch will have the correct serial numbers it will not set off any red flags at Rolex). In addition to not having to worry about the accuracy of datewheel fonts or beats or lug hole locations, etc., no steel rep bezel can or will ever sparkle like the white gold on a gen. Of course, some rep cases may accept a gen bezel, but I cannot verify this.

To match the manual And I will be wearing the 6263.

Nice Daytona collection, UB7, and I agree that Daytonas are 1 of the coolest things you can strap around your wrist.

You can pick up a mint condition 16014 like mine in the neighborhood of $2,200 or so.

Would this help? When viewed in the wild or in a less analytical context, I think people would be hard-pressed to identify this watch as anything other than a mint gen 6263. And let us keep in mind that the point here is not to fool people who carry loupes (ADs and TZ cognoscenti), but, instead, to be able to wear your rep out in the real world among the general population without fear of being outted. And I think this watch fits that requirement handily.

At least not before spending an untold fortune on the cheap ones & ultimately coming to the inevitable conclusion that, in the end, you get what you pay for.....

The case used on this watch appears to be the same one DW used for my V72 DWs, so all of the options for retro-fitting gen parts should apply. The only difference between the DW and this watch is the dial & movement. But I remain unconvinced that the downsides of the dial, such as they are, would present any serious shortcomings in the context of the numerous upsides presented by the case and asymmetrical pusher layout. Replace the rep crown/tube, crystal, bracelet/end links with gen parts & the caseback with a DW and I would wager that such a watch would successfully (and easily) pass for a gen almost anywhere short of TZ or an (experienced) AD -- the same as with a DW. In fact, I think I may take this 6263 out for its first test drive this evening (and the watch is still fitted with the original cheap-o domed crystal (not bad, but no where near as striking as the beveled gen T21)).

I agree that the dial has issues, but I still think the asymmetrical pushers trump the dial issues making them almost non-issues. Sure, it would be nice to have the ability to swap the dial for a (better) v72 dial, but, again, that is the difference between a factory-made $800 watch and a home-brewed $2,000+ one..... Keep in mind, also, that no one has a perfect V72 dial either. And I and others here have been searching for years. And since the case appears to be the same one that DW uses in his kits (at least the dimensions appear to be the same), I guess an owner could swap out the 7760 & dial for a V72 & dial if he locates one in the future. Maybe knowing there is that option would make the watch more palatable to more people.

Euno - Thanks for your learned input. Always good to see those works of art (I mean the pictures, not the watches....but the watches are ok I guess ).

I just wanted to say

The only real problems with this watch are related to the dial -- crown is positioned slightly too high (I remember we had conversations about crown placement when you were comparing 62xx dials several months ago & I have been sensitized to this issue ever since) & the index markers around the circumference of the dial are a bit too far inward so they are coming into contact with the edge of the subdials around 3 & 9. I think the subdials themselves are correctly sized & placed on the dial, but the location of the index markers makes the subdials appear a bit 'off'. If you look at the subdial positions compared with the hour index markers on either side of the subdial you will see that they are about the same size & in the same location on the dial as on the gen. At least, that is the way it looks to me.

Diesel, you are like me (before I bit the bullet and went the DW V72-kit route) and we are exactly the type of buyers I am thinking of for such a watch. I can tell you that after getting my hands on this 7750-powered watch, the outside/visible differences between it and my DWs are minimal, at best (obviously, these are different models, but I think you know what I mean). And like I said before, those asymmetrical pushers trump all the little inaccuracies in my book. If I were to see one of these in the wild, even up close, I would have to assume it was just one of those gens that came out of Rolex with an odd (rare) dial. And I should know better. Having asymmetrical pushers gives a watch alot of credibility that it would not otherwise have, since just about everyone knows that the main thing to look for when spotting a vintage Daytona is whether it has UNevenly-spaced pushers or not (which denotes a rep or fake). p.s. The chrono hand on alot of gen Daytonas is slightly off. There have been many posts on TZ from owners asking if they are being neurotic because the slight misalignment of the hand bothers them (the answer is usually 'Yes, you are being neurotic. The watch is a beautiful antique.......live with it'). And the slight misalignment of the hour totalizer hand in the photo of my 6263 above has been fixed. It was due to the DW caseback's thicker sidewalls pressing on the pusher lever. I thinned/dremeled about 1/4 of the sidewall & the hand is back at its proper null point (12). This theoretically should not be a problem with the thinner 7760 movement. Remember, the watch in the photo has a 7750. I removed the rotor to make it function as a pseudo manual-wind watch and so the DW caseback would fit it. With the DW caseback installed on the 7750, the overall case dimensions & side profiles of all 3 watches in the photo are the same (excepting the differences for the different bezels).

Gen on left, rep on right Certainly, not an exact match (no rep ever is), but do you see any 'huge' flaws?

I would love to see a DW-quality 7760-powered Daytona for $600, or even $500, but I think the higher cost of the 7760 would make it unprofitable for the seller. And while I do think $800 is a stretch, when you consider that the only other game in town (DW) starts at about $2,000 (if you are lucky enough to catch him when he has an assembled watch for sale.....and I have only seen him sell 2 of those) and would differ only in the type of movement that lurks inside a closed case, $800 starts to look like a bargain to me. I just want to know if there are enough other people who feel the same. Josh's Lemania/Venus-powered Daytona has symmetrical pushers. I believe it is the same watch that I got several years ago These are outstanding watches and other than the usual problems with the rep crown tubes stripping, it has been an excellent watch. Trouble is that it is a bi-compax movement (with the bottom subdial 'frozen' by me), the lug width is larger at 20mm (and the rest of the case dimensions are larger as well) & the pusher arrangement is wrong (symmetrical), which easily marks it as a rep.

The $800 price tag would include an Asian 7760 (manual-wind version of the ubiquitous and reliable (when properly serviced) 7750). Such a watch would be essentially a factory-assembled DW-style Daytona using similar quality parts, but powered by the Asian 7760 instead of the Valjoux. That is, a very accurate rep (containing no gen Rolex parts) that is functionally the same as the Valjoux-powered DW or gen (a tri-compax chronograph with all working subdials), but which can be fitted with many gen parts (crown, tube, pushers, etc.). Again, it would look similar to this (The watch in the picture has been fitted with a gen Triplock crown/tube, which is slightly narrower than the rep Triplock crown that the watch would normally come with from the factory) It seems to me that for ever one of us who has the time, money & skills to gather the parts to construct a home-brewed V72 DW, there are probably 100 times as many people who would be willing to pay a premium for a functionally similar & already assembled watch. But I would like to find out if I am right about the number of potential (real) buyers.

Good luck with the surgery. One way or the other, you can be sure your surgeon will know when it is time to break for tea.

Always nice to see a steel Datejust. Very odd that the stem should break like that from just finger pressure. Here is my mid-80's 100% gen (including the 3035) home-brewed Frankenjust with linen dial (left front)

I mostly agree with Avitt and tmg. Constructing one of these watches is nerve-wracking, at best, and the road to nirvana is filled with numerous potholes. But I know how you feel because an accurate vintage Daytona has been my grail watch for decades, and the appeal of this particular siren can be all-consuming at times. Unfortunately, your only alternative with that case is a Valjoux movement and these are both rare & expensive birds. I will tell you the same thing Avitt once told me -- Stick with it & you will eventually find one. But it takes time, patience & commitment and the pricing on these things seems to go up faster than the cost of oil on the open commodities market.

The watches at the ends are V72-powered DWs. The watch in the middle is the watch under consideration -- essentially a DW, but powered by an Asian 7760 (manual-wind version of the Asian 7750 chronograph movement) instead of a Valjoux 72. For reference, DW recently sold a pair of fully-assembled V72-powered watches for a bit less than $2k each (if your membership level permits access, you can still find the post in the Supporter For Sale section). So my question is -- Is there a market for a less expensive DW-style Daytona rep? The Daytona equivalent to an MBW SeaDweller - a very accurate rep that will accept many gen parts.

Obviously someone's idea of a parody. All of the links on that page are either dead-ends or forward to ofrei.com. I doubt Bob Frei would find it very funny though.

Manual-wind Asian 7760 movement with asymmetrical pushers and a fully-functional tri-compax chronograph. Case dimensions similar to DW & gen Daytona 62xx series, so it will accept many gen parts. Note that the watch in the picture has been fitted with a DW caseback (which is shallower (similar to the gen 62xx caseback) than the caseback that would come with the watch) & a gen Triplock crown/tube, but these parts would NOT come standard on the rep watch you purchase - I installed them just to demonstrate that the case will accept some gen parts - you would need to purchase/install these yourself or have your modder perform the work for you.

Yes, tell me about it...... On second thought, keep it to yourself. I think I have had enough casebacks for one night. But I am curious about your comments above......Although the watch in the middle in this picture is not for sale, are you saying you would be willing to pay $800 for one of these 7750-powered Daytonas if it was already assembled?

That has been my experience too and I am in the same area.

I am chuckling to myself as I write this and the reason for the giggles is because I feel very stupid. After the watch came through the last round of testing with flying colors and I was about to put this baby to sleep, I tightened the caseback (not overtight, just snug) and the hand started to crawl again (like my skin). The problem is due to the DW caseback pressing on the lever once the caseback is screwed down all the way. I did not realize it when I swapped the DW caseback for the original (the original caseback is too tall), but the side wall of the DW caseback is almost 3 times as thick as the original caseback and so it is coming into contact with the lever somewhere along its path. I am confident this is the problem because I have spent the past 2 hours loosening, testing, tightening, testing, loosening, testing, tightening, testing, etc. and the hand only does its crawl when the caseback is tightened. It stays perfectly still when either the original caseback is installed or the DW caseback is only loosely fit. So I have been going at the inside wall of the DW caseback with my Dremel, trying to reduce the sidewall thickness to the point where it will clear the lever. After seeing how much more accurate the watch looks with the lower profile DW caseback, there is no way I could ever go back to the too high original. Here is a comparison of the 2 casebacks (the accurate DW is on the right, original (too tall) caseback on the left) (You can see where I have started to Dremel (thin) the sidewall of the lower profile DW caseback (on right) near the CRS inscription) _________ FINAL UPDATE — After reassembling the watch with the dremeled-out DW caseback, the watch has been running flawlessly for more than an hour & the hour totalizer hand has not budged from its proper null (OFF) position once. Problem solved (for real this time). Thanks to all who provided help.