freddy333

Sounds like the beginning of the long-feared ETA retrenchment into the bowels of the Swatch Group. But it is curious that only quartz models are (so far) effected. Like Ziggy, I have had suppliers tell me there should not be a problem getting ETA parts for the foreseeable future, but this news does make one wonder. On the other hand, could it be that mechanical movements are beginning to do to quartz movements what quartz did to mechanicals back in the 70's (outsell them)?

UPDATE 48 HOURS LATER - I fixed the stuck top pusher problem & half-solved The Mystery of the 'Creeping' Hour Totalizer (the spring comes unhinged if/when you press the lower (reset) chrono button hard. Now, the reason one has to press the chrono reset button hard is because pressing it normally will only reset the chrono seconds and minutes hands......the chrono hour hand (the one that 'creeps') either does not move or it will only move part of the way back to its null position. You have to keep pressing the chrono reset button harder & harder to get the hand to budge its way back to its proper null position. The Catch-22 here is that pressing the lower chrono (reset) button this hard is what causes the spring to pop out of position, which then allows the hour totalizer hand to start 'creeping'. None of the 3 chrono reset parts appear to be worn, bent or broken (Note that this picture was taken with the hour totalizer gear removed & the spring has since been reset to its correct position) So does Ziggy or anyone else familiar with 7750s know what is causing the lower chrono (reset) button to have to be pressed so hard to fully reset the hour totalizer hand?

Nice work. See also The Twilight Zone

Looks like it may be a good buy, but for any vintage Daytona hopefuls who may be getting ready to pounce on this hoping to complete a DW kit, you should know that this is not the right Valjoux. For a DW Daytona, you need a Valjoux 72 (or 23, which is a 72 minus the hour totalizer/counter).

Still Sunday night in my time zone & I am wearing this Tomorrow? No idea until I get there.

It would help to know the specific movement, but it sounds like the stem is not seating fully each time you insert it.

Thank you. This info helped. When I removed the bridge, I found the hour hammer spring had slipped off the hour hammer operating lever, which released the hour hammer and allowed the white plastic hour counter lock (the component that 'brakes' & stabilizes the hour totalizer hand) to swing away from the hour totalizer gear (I have removed the hour totalizer gear in this picture) I am assuming the spring had somehow become dislodged while the movement was out of the case (I had removed it to install a gen crown/tube). However, it may also have been dislodged when I first removed the bridge. Because the only other thing that looked different based on ETA's picture of the assembled braking mechanism was the way the k-n-o-b of the plastic hour counter lock did not quite fit all the way into the cut out of the hour hammer operating lever (though everything seemed to function properly when I moved them manually). So I just re-engaged the spring around both the hour hammer operating lever & the hour hammer (in its correct position, according to the ETA drawing) And then I reassembled everything up to the dial (I only attached the hand for the hour totalizer so I could test it thoroughly before completing the reassembly). _________ UPDATE - Same problem & now there is a new problem - I cannot operate (push) the top pusher lever at all. It will not budge. So I disassembled the watch back to where I had reset the spring to see if the spring or one of the other components had come lose and worked itself into the top pusher mechanism. But the spring was still in the correct location and nothing else looked out of place. But even with the bridge and the 8 extra gears removed, I still cannot operate the top pusher (and the hour totalizer is still creeping). Ignoring the top pusher issue for the moment and concentrating on the hour totalizer issue, the only thing I can see that strikes me as possibly odd is that the hour totalizer gear looks a bit lop-sided when viewed from the side. Because of this, the plastic hour counter lock (which I assume is what keeps the hour totalizer gear from turning when it is not in use) is not making firm contact with the gear's teeth and it is unable to 'brake' the gear's movements (note the gear's lop-sided stance and the way the plastic lock comes into contact with it just under the edge of the gear's teeth) Does it look like this could be the cause of the hour totalizer creeping? And do you see anything that might account for why the top pusher will not operate (I cannot press the lever in to start the chrono)?

Thank you. This info helped. When I removed the bridge, I found the hour hammer spring had slipped off the hour hammer operating lever, which released the hour hammer and allowed the white plastic hour counter lock (the component that 'brakes' & stabilizes the hour totalizer hand) to swing away from the hour totalizer gear (I have removed the hour totalizer gear in this picture) I am assuming the spring had somehow become dislodged while the movement was out of the case (I had removed the movement while I was installing a crown/tube). However, it could have been dislodged during removal of the bridge, but I am hoping it was the former & not the latter case. The only other thing that looked different than the layout in the ETA diagram of the braking assembly was the way the k-n-o-b end of the plastic hour counter lock (the white 'L' shaped piece in the 1st picture) did not quite fit all the way into the cut-out of the hour hammer operating lever as it does in the diagram above (the round bit just sat in the cut-out and pivoted as the parts moved). But everything seemed to function properly when I moved them manually, so I just re-engaged the spring around both the hour hammer operating lever & the hour hammer (it actually was not difficult once I figured out how to hold the metal bits with my finger while expanding & slipping the leg of the spring around the lever). And then I reassembled everything up to the dial (I only attached the hand for the hour totalizer so I could test it thoroughly before completing the reassembly).

THE LEGEND THE PROBLEM I am trying to repair yet another secs at 6 Asian 7750 that has the same problem my secs at 9 7750 had -- the hour totalizer (subdial at 9) continues to move when the chronograph is off. In this case, the problem continues when the movement is out of the case, so I know I am dealing with one of the components Ziggy mentioned above. THE STORY SO FAR I removed the top plate of the movement (note the 3 jewels in the plate where the pins of the 3 subdial gears fit through) I stopped here to take a picture of the bridge and extra gearing the factory added to relocate the running seconds hand from the stock 7750's usual location (9 o'clock subdial) to the proper location of the running seconds on a modern 1165xx Daytona (6 o'clock subdial) THE PLOT THICKENS I then lifted-off all of the gears except for the top one (the top gear seems to be press-fit onto its pinion) I stopped there and wanted to ask Ziggy or anyone who has worked on these movements a few questions before I proceed. THE 3 QUESTIONS 1 - How do I remove this 1 remaining gear (it does not simply lift-off like the other 7 gears did)? 2- Are there any gotchas that relate to either removing or reinstalling the bridge & remaining gear (are there any special tools required for setting clearances, etc.)? That is, once I figure out how to remove the remaining gear, can I just remove the 3 screws & lift off the bridge -- is reassembly just a reversal of the removal procedure? 3- Am I correct that none of the gears or jewels either on this bridge or in the top plate gets oiled during reassembly? ______________ FOOD FOR THOUGHT As an aside (regarding the oil, or lack of it in these secs at 6 7750s) - I have found that every one of these secs at 6 7750s have very 'twitchy' seconds hands. That is, instead of a 'sweeping' motion as the hand moves around the seconds subdial, the movement is quite erratic & stuttery. As this erratic behavior does not seem to effect any of the secs at 9 7750s, I think it is safe to say that the problem is related to the additional gearing used to relocate the running seconds hand. Looking at the design of the additional bridge and gearing, this could be due either to the 'play' between the final 2 gears or it could be due to the lack of precise fit of the gears onto their pinions (there is clearly a bit of slop in there) or it could be due to the lack of lubrication (or any mixture of the above). I know that using oil to lubricate the additional gearing for these relocated running seconds hands adds additional drag and friction to the already overloaded movement. But I am wondering if Ziggy or anyone else has ever considered (or tried) using powdered graphite to lubricate the extra gearing since, being a dry (very fine powder) lubricant, it should not add much (if any) additional drag & might be just the thing to resurrect some of the prematurely dead Daytonas.....at least as a stop-gap measure until the factories build a better mouse trap. Anyone try this stuff yet (I am hesitant to test the theory on my watch since it is one of the few that are still running.....if it ain't broke, don't fix it)?

Franken. Definitely. And based on this clown's selling history, I would be pretty surprised if the watch the 'winner' receives would contain any of the gen parts in the (purposely blurry - to disguise the details) pictures.

Beautiful work, Zig. Kevin300z - the 1570 Rolex movement comes with (or accepts) a gen datewheel. One of the reasons for using a gen movement is that you do not have to screw around with aftermarket datewheels and all of their associated problems.

3.5 years old & keeps nearly COSC time. Almost a year old & keeps nearly COSC time. 2 V72-powered DWs (left & right) & an Asian 7750-powered DW with asymmetrical pushers (center). And a few friends

Ziggy - I am trying to repair another secs at 6 Asian 7750 that has the same problem my secs at 9 7750 had (the hour totalizer continues to move when the chronograph is off). In this case, the problem continues when the movement is out of the case, so I know I am dealing with one of the components you mentioned above. I have removed the top plate of the movement & stopped here I know I need to remove the next plate/bridge as well as all of the gears here, but I wanted to check to see if there are any gotchas before I proceed? That is, can I just lift off each of the 8 gears and then remove the 3 screws & lift off the plate? And is reassembly just a reversal of the removal procedure? And just to be sure, am I correct that with these movements none of these gears or jewels gets any oil? ______________ As an aside - I have found that every one of these secs at 6 7750s have very 'twitchy' seconds hands. That is, instead of a 'sweeping' motion as the hand moves around the seconds subdial, the movement is quite erratic & stuttery. I know that using oil to lubricate the additional gearing for these relocated running seconds hands adds additional drag and friction, adding to the already overloaded movement. But I am wondering if you ever considered (or tried) using powdered graphite to lubricate the extra gearing since, being a dry (very fine powder) lubricant, it should not add as much (if any) additional drag as a liquid oil & might be useful in resurrecting some of the prematurely dead Daytonas?

I could have sworn I left that in my other watch.......

Wearing this today (One of the few that are still keeping near perfect time after nearly 3.5 years of strictly occasional use) But after seeing Narikaa's star-studded contribution, I think I may follow a similar suit (hold the jewels) for this evening's festivities

Nice work repaustria. Is that an ND dial? Great crown, but I am not so sure about their fonts. Some of the serifs in the small text look a little too blocky, like an American Old West font (think Bonanza) instead of what Rolex used. Sorry you need to sell the watch, Mickey. Tritium has been illegal to possess (with the exception of a limited number of highly regulated industrial applications) for years, so I would doubt there is any of it on your dial.

I started there too.

Welcome and sorry to hear things did not work out better. Like they say, so close yet so far........ What I think people forget is how civilians see watches. To the average person, a Sub is a Sub is a Sub is a Sub. Most of us, if our memories are good & we are willing to be honest, would not have been able to tell the difference between the watch your friend got and the real thing back when we started out. So the odds of your friend coming back with anything even approaching a quality Sub rep are about as remote as the odds of a non wine connoisseur picking out a rare wine from hundreds of table quality strains while blindfolded (and being pitched at constantly by people who are trying to get her to buy their particular brand of bottled sludge). Not likely. You might have improved your chances for success (a bit) if you had taken the time to educate your friend on the specific details to look for that separate the cream of the crop from the kind of thing she ended up with. Of course, that assumes that your friend would be willing to learn and remember what you tell her.

Not sure of the model, but it's a Patek.

Unusual for a workday - wearing one of the Newmans (got suckered in by my own advertising)

I think that makes more sense. But I will have to do some testing with the GC to see if it damages the paint. If not, gluing the hand directly to the dial would be alot easier.

Yes, the 'A's match, but the 'O' in ROLEX is wrong (the line should be thicker on the sides than the top/bottom), which, in my book, trumps the As. The 'O' is wrong on almost every non-gen Daytona dial I have seen (the 1 or 2 that got it close, screwed the rest of the text up even worse). Also, the part of the 'X' in ROLEX that begins at top left and draws down to bottom right should be much bolder (thicker) than the other side and most of the rep dials get this wrong as well. And here is the deal-breaker for every Newman - the bottom leg of the '3' in the minute totalizer (subdial at 3) on every gen Newman extends a bit beyond the top part. None of the rep dials get this right. Remember the rep rule - Always get at least 1 detail wrong.

Looks good, Avitt. I may end up likewise gluing the hand, but I worry that the GS might fade or damage the Fly's delicate black paint, which is already weaked with age. Of course, it will only be an issue if the hand falls off and takes some of the underlying paint on the dial with it. For that reason, I was trying to figure out a way to mount the hand to a small piece of pinion or tubing that I could then glue to the movement's pillar plate.

Do you know if he glued the hand directly to the dial face or did he fit the hand to a short piece of tube or pinion and then glue the tube/pinion to the movement below the dial? I have a V23 that I want to use to relaunch the Flytimer dial (which came with a V72 that now resides in one of the Daytonas) & I am looking at options for fitting the dummy hour totalizer hand.

Nice tmg. I never get tired of seeing these DWs, no matter what is ticking inside. Did the watch come with the hour totalizer frozen or did you have to do that? And if you did, what did you use?