freddy333

I just received a set of new gen Daytona 1165xx hands today (these are the later, wider version, so the comparison will not be a perfect one) I thought everyone would like to see how they differ. Of course, the most obvious difference between the 2 sets is that the gens are wider & the reps, which came from my 3.5 year old 116520, are narrower (the first batches of gen 1165xx Daytonas came with these narrower hands & I believe all rep Daytonas to date come with these also). Aside from the dust on the rep, there is not much visible difference between the 2 based on the appearance of the metal. However, the thing that literally jumps out at you is the difference & quality of the paint applied to the top of the hands. The rep paint is thin, matte & somewhat unevenly applied (the edges appear jagged at close magnification), it looks almost like it was applied with a magic marker. The gen paint, by contrast, is thick (almost like nail polish), gloss & as you would expect from Rolex, applied with near-perfection The small sub dial hands are another story As you can see, the gen hand has a much higher grade of finish compared to the rep hand. Also, the crimp at the end of the tube where it is bent over onto the hand to hold the tube in place is much cleaner and, I assume, heartier, so there will be less chance of the hand coming loose and swinging freely about the tube's axis (a common problem with Daytonas & some other chronograph models). None of the 6 gen hands (3 small subdial hands, 2 minute/hour hands & 1 large chrono seconds hand) fit the 7750's pinions out-of-the-box. The minute & hour hands are both too small, and all 4 of the other hands are too large. However, through a process of trial-and-error (squeezing the tube with a pair of jewelers' pliers to reduce the tube's inner diameter & then broaching the tube to enlarge it to the correct size), I was able to fit all 3 of the subdial hands as well as the large chrono seconds hand to the 7750 (Ignore the appearance of the hands in this picture - They were just broached (by hand) & are covered with fingerprints, which will be removed before final reassembly) Unfortunately, the tube diameter of the gen minute & hour hands is just too small & broaching them would be out of the question. So unless someone (Ziggy) knows of a trick here, I think I will probably have to refit the original rep hands. But the only visible difference I can see between the gen & rep minute and hour hands has to do with the quality & application of paint. So if I can figure out a way to mask off the unpainted areas, I should be able to reproduce the thick gloss black paint of the gen hands with either black nail polish or model paint. Stay tuned as I will be adding some additional pics & info over the next hour or two......

As long as the major luxury brands see current year sales exceeding the previous year's sales, I think they would rather spend their time & resources on shoveling money into the bank than battling the industrial rep machine. But just wait and see what happens when gen watch sales start to taper off (or nosedive) & the profit train starts running out of coal........Then, the legal [censored] will hit the replica fan & every 4th post here will be something like 'Do you think they will try to shut us down or go after us?' And with the word 'Recession' looming on the horizon..............

It is someone who is singled-minded in his pursuit of watches & watch collecting. So much so, that he is able to answer questions about watches without having to refer to a reference book. I believe the term was coined by members of TZ (timezone.com). SEARCH TZ's archives for 'Watch Idiot Savant' to get the story.

Diesel - I am surprised a professional watchmaker is unable to locate an exact match. Based on your description, it does not sound like such an odd shape. In fact, it sounds rather generic. Have a look here or here.

You are right about the growing prevalence of quality reps & their growing encroachment on the gen market. But I think you are wrong about what it is leading to. The gen makers are wise to the 'problem' and, eventually, I think they will be forced to start taking a more active role in pursuing rep makers and distributors. It would also not surprise me to see Rolex, Panerai, Patek and a few others banding together into a consortium of sorts & following the RIAA's lead in taking legal action against a few end-users (rep buyers) so they can draw alot of media attention to the issue. Remember how the RIAA suddenly started grabbing headlines (and quickly dampened the mp3 downloading craze of a few years ago) by suing a handful of children, grandparents, single moms, even deceased great grandmothers for downloading free mp3s from 2 or 3 popular P2P sites. This is a good reason to keep RWG & similar/related sites well under the radar.

Are these the 12/9/3 or 3/6/9 (with running secs at 9) subdial layout? If the latter (for use in a vintage Daytona), count me in for at least 1 (and do not tell Ken's wife).

The one I saw was threaded, but the factory had coated the tube with epoxy or some other permanent glue to lock it in (it is a good idea to seal the tube, but I use a semi-permanent cement like GC so you can still easily remove the tube when you need to). You might be able to remove the tube without damage by heating the case more, but I think it would probably be a hit-or-miss affair.

Try thewatchprince.com. Depending on the bracelet size (specifically, lug width), prices range from about $20 (for ladies' steel) to about $225 (for men's steel Oysters) for the Italian-made Milano bracelets that are similar to Rolex quality but without the Rolex markings, which you said are not a requirement. I would avoid wholesaleoutlet at all costs. Rip-off, thief, charlatan, lier.....you get the idea.

Neither the insert nor the pearl are very good, so I just assumed that these would be replaced either way, which leaves the core parts for comparison. Yes, I do see the a lug hole, but I think there is some cross-over of holes vs non-holes in some of these later models (I think I have seen these with lug holes on TZ, but, again, I am not an expert on these modern models, so take my comments with a grain of salt). The overall dial printing & date font looks better on the right, as do the CGs and crown. So that one, even though far from perfect, got my vote.

I do not believe the crown etching should be visible from that distance (it is generally difficult to see without magnification and/or a nearby & direct light source). A visible etching is usually one of the indicators of a fake Rolex and one of the reasons I recommended the watch on the right.

Diesel -- They also sell very good quality 19mm (men's size) jubilee bracelets (as well as Oyster, etc.). But in the larger sizes, you can go up a notch to the Italian-made Milano bracelets (similar quality to Rolex OEM) that, as I recall, sell for just a couple hundred dollars. Of course, the clasp will not contain the crown, but you could always swap that part over from a rep bracelet of similar style/size. But most women do not care whether the clasp has the crown or not--as long as the overall quality and feel is 'luxurious', which is the case with the Milano bracelets. I do not think a glass (mineral glass) crystal would be correct for that watch. Are you unable to locate the proper plastic crystal or do you just prefer the look of glass (which has a slightly green (think Anniversary Milgauss) appearance when viewed from the side)?

No rain here, but I hope you will post some pics. In the meantime, bon a-p-p-

Diesel -- Beautiful watch & nice gift. You should be expecting a new car for your next birthday. Are you going to replace the old strap? Or maybe give her a nice aftermarket steel Jubilee bracelet as an option like this one (I am assuming it is a ladies Oyster-Perp) Here is the link You might even consider overhauling the case & crystal (I think most women prefer new/sparkle over old/patina (especially, when it is someone else's patina) on their jewelry).

Important lunch date tomorrow (still Wednesday night here) & I will need to pack some genuine muscle (with a hint of understated bling)

I am not an expert on modern Seadwellers, but of the 2, and based on fit & finish of each watch in your pictures, the 1 on the right appears to have the least objectionable sins to me. Both would probably pass for gens on the street unless they were inspected by someone who knows what to look for (and I do not mean the average gen owner, who usually knows little beyond the name on the dial).

This question has been answered many times. No one here can tell you what the best watch is for you. My advice is to go to your local Rolex authorized dealer (AD) and learn about the genuine watches. Try them on and study the differences between them. Then, after you decide which model you want, check the 'Collectors' forum for the rep you think is best.

Delta -- Can you itemize what mods you (or the previous owner) have been done to the watch? It looks like it has a gen T21 and Triplock. Anything else?

Nice collection/selection you have there TT. I like the case too.

Same old beater

If I follow this, I think Chevall is just asking, albeit in a round about way, the old 'Where can I get the best rep?' And I think he is saying that he is willing to pay for gen parts. Am I understanding you, Chevall? If not, you might seek the assistance of a friend who can translate your Italian into English, since I think that is where most of the confusion lies here.

(I see the text formatting functions have returned to the edit screen today) Welcome Craig. If you want a good (looks like the real thing for a reasonable cost) out-of-the-box Sub, get the Noob. If you have some watchmakers tools, time, experience (or are willing to pay someone else who has these things) & plan to modify the watch beyond its original state, then I would get the MBW. The Noob looks more like the real thing, but does not easily accept genuine Rolex parts, so what you see (when it arrives) is mostly what you will remain with. The MBW has a technically more reliable movement (the ETA) and will accept many genuine Rolex parts (crystal, crown, crown tube), so you can improve many of its shortcomings and, having done all of this, you can end up with an even more accurate watch than the Noob. But, depending on who does the work & how much work you have done, you could end up spending double or triple the original cost of the watch. The choice is yours.

Thanks Avitt. I used Devcon 2-part 'Plastic Steel' epoxy with a similar procedure on this But I got glue in the tube hole and had to broach it out (not an easy task broaching through epoxy). I was hoping there might be another (easier to apply) glue out there. I guess I will just have to improve my gluing methods.

Funny, because all of the stats I have seen seem to suggest just the opposite -- that relatively few professional divers, these days, wear a Rolex (or other luxury diving watch) when diving. Most wear a cheap digital because they offer more features & functions, are able to work under similar pressures, are more accurate & cheap/easy to replace when they get scratched/dented/damaged during work. It is different today than it was back in the 1960's or 1970's, when Subs & Seadwellers were about the only option for reliable time keeping under extreme conditions.

I must not have fully acclimated to it yet, because I find it hard to ignore. It is like the advertisements that broadcasters put in the corners of our tv screens during all programming (except for the commercials, which remain 100% clutter free). They do not seem to bother some people, but they drive me nuts.