freddy333

As Ubi said, technically speaking, it really doesn't matter which direction the crown faces relative to the crystal (the gen watches left the factory with no particular crown orientation). The crown is similar to a screw that screws into a threaded hole (i.e., the crown tube [a "nut"]). Depending on a number of factors (e.g., the number and condition of the threads in both the crown and crown tube, the depth (into the case) of the crown tube, the crown tube's orientation as it was screwed into the case, the tightness of the crown, etc.), the coronet relief on the face of the crown can end up facing virtually any direction. I suppose if you're really critical like avitt (and others), you could spend the time (and money) to locate the best crown/crown tube combo and then use epoxy or some other type of permanent cement to locate the crown tube into the case so that the crown, when screwed-down, points in a particular direction. Though, as the inner seals and crown/crown tube threads seat and wear, the orientation is likely to change over time. And this would necessitate that you begin the entire reorientation process all over again. The problem I've found (when retrofitting a used gen crown to a new or used crown tube) is getting a crown that screws-down evenly. Not too long ago, I purchased a baker's dozen used (excellent-to-near-mint condition) gen triplock crowns and, of the lot, there were only three that appeared (by eye) to screw evenly down onto the stem. Most of the bunch appeared to "wobble" a bit as you spun the stem/crown combo and watched the assembly's orientation from the side. Having that kind of inaccuracy does bother me and was worth the extra time (and expense) to correct for.

The font may have something to do with it too. But if you compare the height of the date window to the minute markers adjacent to the date window the gens look taller. There also seems to be more white space above and below the date on the gens.

Sherrington: If someone could figure out how to enlarge the date window (I've yet to see any rep with a correctly-sized date window), it would be a perfect match. Great work!

Well done. If I were wearing a hat, it would be tipped in your direction.

Wonders never cease... This afternoon, while I was dining out with friends, a gentleman, who identified himself as a watch collector, offered to buy my (still uncompleted) Newman Daytona project watch: Knowing it's a rep, I obviously couldn't sell (or allow him to give it a proper appraisal), but it did the heart good to know I'm on the right track.

I'm still working to perfect a dial luming technique (using the point of a pin), but I've found that a toothpick works great for luming hands. Remove ALL of the existing lume by gently scraping the rear of the hand with a toothpick or soft wood stick. Just to be sure, I also soak the (unpainted) hands in pure ammonia for 15 minutes to get them absolutely clean. Then reapply the lume (to the back of the hand) in multiple thin coats (3 or 4) using the side of the toothpick. With a thin coat of lume on the toothpick, I lay the toothpick, sideways, across the back of the hand so the toothpick bridges the two edges/sides of the hand and then slowly drag the toothpick from one end of the hand to the other (e.g., top-to-bottom). Do this a few times, slowly, until the paint forms a "skin" that fills the empty void in the center. Let it dry for several minutes and apply the next coat in the same manner. Once you're happy with the result, you may need to clean the edge(s) of the hand with a clean toothpick (if some of the lume paint migrated around the side). But, from the front, the hand should appear perfect. It's amazingly easy and I've done this on 6 or 7 sets of hands so far, including one very tiny set from a quartz watch and all came out perfect after only a few minutes of work (most of the time was spent waiting for each coat to dry). It just occurred to me to add that you shouldn't be tempted to overapply the lume (in an attempt to try to make it glow brighter) as this could cause the hand to come into contact with the dial or another hand.

lionsandtigers: Not "crummy" at all. At least I don't think so. Excepting the datewheel font (which will only be an issue for a handful of hard-core Rolex fans), I think the project looks spectacular! The CGs, especially, are dead-on, which, even from across a room, is one of the two obvious give-aways (the other being a flat crystal) on most replicas. The only other thing you might consider is slightly beveling (filing) the squarish edges of the case as alot of older SDs seem to be more rounded (due to repeated Rolex servicings?). Otherwise, once you get the crown/tube reinstalled (and swap datewheels), I think most people would think it's gen.

There may be some models or model variations that have a different HE valve fitted (like your MBW DRSD). (I just received a WM DRSD, which I have not opened yet -- I will update if the HE in this one is not removable.) But I have so far completed this mod on two watches -- a Trusty DRSD and a 5512 COMEX Sub similar to the one that is currently offered by Trusty. As for the gen HE -- As is typical for Rolex, there certainly may be variations in the construction of the valves they employed, especially in the early versions made specially for COMEX. I generally use Antiquorum as a guide since all of the watches are thoroughly authenticated prior to being listed for auction. When I checked Antiquorum to research this prior to beginning the first mod, both the COMEX Sub and DRSD listed displayed the dark, flat matte valve (which is what I used as a guide for the mod). Also, around that time, there was a thread on TZ discussing whether or not it is safe to have Rolex overhaul vintage watches and one of the more seasoned regulars warned that it was routine, at least in the case of the London RSC, for Rolex to polish parts that may have originally had a matte finish. He did not specifically cite the HE valve, but considering its location and the time and difficulty required to properly mask it off, it seemed to me that Rolex probably buffs these to a shine when a watch is overhauled. On the other hand, just now I found another COMEX 5513 that does appear to have a shiny valve (though it still looks flat as opposed to the convex shape on most rep valves). So there may very well be some variance in the valves (or this is proof that RSC polishes them!).

Brilliant! I'll give that a try. Just in case, do you have an opinion on whether Super-Luminova "green" would be a good backup option (as oppsed to "white" or standard luminova)?

Sorry, by "original" do you mean it's a genuine Rolex, or do you mean as originally fitted on a rep? As far as the "horrible" lume job goes, that's actually what made me think it was a genuine vintage Sub. I've seen a couple of water-damaged gen Subs that looked very similar (thick, crusty lume peeling away from the dial). It may look very different in person, but, based on the way the watch looks in the photo, I don't know that I'd be so quick to have it "fixed" (unless, of course, "original" meant gen, then ignore this paragraph).

James, This sounds like the same problem many (myself included) run into when enlarging the lug holes on rep watches to fit the larger original springbars. After the holes are enlarged, the springbars often don't line up with the holes in the case because the top portion of the end piece hits the side of the case before the springbar can reach and line-up with the holes in the lugs. One or the other of the two ends of the springbar is usually off by just a "smidge", but that's all it seems to take to keep it from fitting. The only fix I'm aware of in this case is to file/grind/shave the circular portion of the end piece (where it fits against the watch case) down in small increments (testing frequently so you don't remove too much, which will leave you with an unsightly gap!) until the holes properly align. It's actually a quick job for a jeweler or watchmaker and a fairly simple one for you if you've got a good, round jeweler's file handy.

Nanuq, Did the hands (or anything else besides the bezel) on your watch come from classicwatchparts?

My apologies if I misunderstood your original post. But if you already have these watches then just do the dial swap "upgrade"; if you don't already have the watches (and want to find or create them), then see the links I provided.

rag9fx, I would definitely second the others suggestions re the crystal press. They're not that expensive and it WILL pay for itself the first time you use it and see how easy (and safe) it makes the job. As an alternative for those without an extra Omega case lying around, you might try a metric socket from a socket wrench set. In some cases, with some [watch] cases, you may find a good fit. Having something that applies the force equally around the circumference of the part goes a long way to reducing the likelihood of collateral damage (to use the parlance of our times'--"The Dude").

klingsor, Why don't you just get one of these: http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=656 And one of these: http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=568 And play musical dials (or cases).

Hmmm... Yes, that would be a problem. I read something on TZ a few years ago where the poster, who identified himself as being a Rolex-trained watchmaker, said that Rolex occasionally used different parts depending on the size of the case (e.g., 20mm lugs vs 19mm lugs, etc.). And this often occurred without any notation or change in the official specs. And from what I've read by others on TZ over the years re variations in Rolex designs and parts specifications, that would certainly fit within the bounds of reasonable expectation. Of course, that won't fix the problem you're having, but it might help to explain what's going on with the different thread pitches.

Avitt, Are you sure the gen pushers are correct (gen)? It is very odd that the Rolex tap wouldn't match the Rolex pusher that the tap was made to create threads for. I'm just musing here, but could there be two (or more) different versions of taps, similar to the case with crown tubes and the two separate types of tools required to install them? And great tutorial.

I need to relume a rep 5512, 6263 and a 1665 DRSD. Is Bergeon Luminous (white) paste or standard Luminova better (more accurate) or should I use Super-Luminova? And which colour--white or green? My initial thought was to use the Bergeon paste because I have used this on a couple of other watches and its naturally weak and quick-fading glow might(?) look better on an old watch. But the lume that was originally on these watches was so weak (barely any glow) that I couldn't tell for sure whether it was white or green. I'm hoping that some of you who have more experience may be able to shed some light (no pun intended) on this.

I'm surprised either watch made it through that torture course. Either way, brilliant post, TTK!

Not to sound flippant, but that's where experience comes in.

Just fyi: Here's the same set for a few dollars less: http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/Case-Tube-Tap-Set-Rolex.html

As stated in the TZ class outline, the classes aren't really sufficient (or designed) to teach real-world diagnostics & repair skills. The classes provide you with a basic understanding of the components and workings of a watch (the Level 2 course adds a few complications and adds basic lubrication to the mix).

Thanks and the photos really don't do it justice. This really outta be done routinely whenever CGs and lugs are modded. Not sure why it hasn't been?

It is said that God is in the details. And nowhere is that truer than when comparing a rep watch to its genuine counterpart. A quick perusal of vintage gen Sea Dwellers and COMEXs and you will see that the early HE valves that were fitted into these rare watches differ in appearance from the round, shiny button things rep makers generally use to mimic them. Specifically, the face of the gen valve, where it sits adjacent to the highly polished casing material that surrounds it, is flat-faced (as opposed to slightly convex on reps), a bit darker and definitely not polished. If, like me, your ultimate goal is to wind up with a watch whose appearance is a near-perfect analogue of the genuine article, then you will need to mod the HE valve to more accurately mirror the appearance of the original. Fortunately, not only is this one of the simplest mods to execute (as long as you have mastered the art of movement extraction), but, amazingly (as I found out after completing the first one), it also results in a rep that is orders of magnitude closer to looking like 'the real thing'. Anyway, enough with the blabbering and on to the mod. Here is the step-by-step procedure (note: it is alot easier to do than to write): 1. Open the case and remove the movement (as Ziggy and others have already penned wonderfully comprehensive tutorials on this process, I will take that as read). 2. Using a small flathead screwdriver, slide the backing plate over the 'valve' plug until the large circular cut-out in the plate is located directly over the head of the valve. The backing plate should then slide off (if it has not already fallen off by itself). The valve, which is just a small blocking pin with a 'T' head, can be removed with tweezers (it may just fall out, but in each of the two watches I have modded so far, the pins were held in (gently) by all the muck that had collected around the head on the outside of the case -- the pin required only gentle prodding with tweezers to remove). 3. Beginning with 100 grit sandpaper, hold the valve pin between thumb and forefinger, perpendicular to the surface, and grind the rounded head flat. Once flat, use 200 and then (only briefly) 400 grit to smooth out the surface to a roughly brushed appearance. I purposely left it a bit rougher than the other brushed surfaces on the case. 4. Clean the pin and hole thoroughly and slide the pin back into the hole in the case. 5. Reinstall the backing plate over the end of the pin, clean the case and reassemble. Here are before and after shots (the valve looks a bit lighter in color here because the light source was directly on top of it; the valve appears slightly darker under normal room lighting): When viewed on ones arm (unfortunately, my camera is on the fritz, so I do not have an arm shot), the entire watch just looks - well, more right. More authentic. More like a gen SD or COMEX, at least from that side. The 'valve' draws the eye directly to it and the eye does not leave disappointed. I am still not quite sure why this small part (and simple mod) produces such a dramatic change in the overall appearance of a watch thus modded, but it does. And for the better. Much better. Promise. So do it. _________________ Update 6/07 -- My camera was out of service when I originally posted this tutorial so I was unable to include a wrist shot. But here it is now I have also since continued research into gen vintage Comex Subs and there appear to be both shiny, domed He valves and non-shiny, flat valves. So either one is correct. But I think the non-shiny, flat version makes a rep look more authentic because I have never seen this form on any other rep watches (only gens).

Yeah, what longshot said....ah, WOW! I don't know which is more impressive--the quality of that rep or the artistry of the relume! Again, Wow (and I don't (didn't?) even like B&R watches)!