RobbieG

Well said. I hate it when gen watch forum go'ers do the snobbery thing. That was kind of the slant to my last post. They think they represent the gen watch community but they really don't in the way that we represent watch lovers in general. I'd bet money that some of the people/clients of mine I mentioned that own Lange's. Pateks, VC's, etc. would buy some of our nice reps if they knew they existed. In fact, I'm sure most of them would. One friend of mine that has his own jet would crap himself if I handed him a new rep Skyland and told him it cost under three hundred bucks. He would tell me to buy a dozen of them to give as Christmas gifts. No joke. Like I always say, any TRUE watch lover loves a nice watch no matter what its origin or brand or price point. A nice watch is a nice watch.

I rub my PO on my b*lls while singing old REO Speedwagon songs wearing a corset...

Nice, Boolie. Bruddah Lani get one vintage Rollie, hah? Why?

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. I own almost a dozen gens myself and visit those forums, but my behavior is nothing like this. I just love watches, but I am the exception rather than the rule. Of course, I'm not rich on the level which you speak of though. But I do hang with a lot of them. People who hand on watch forums - gen or rep - do not represent the respective owners of each group of watch buyers as a whole. We are all the exception. When I meet friends and clients at golf clubs and on yachts and private jets there has never been one time that any of them noticed or commented on my watch, nor did I on theirs. Many of these guys wear Day-Dates and with them a lack of watch saavy is to be expected, but many also wear VC, AP, Patek, Lange, etc. In other words, most high end watch owners actually don't buy watches for status symbols, they buy them because they happen to be sold where they shop for jewelry in most cases. I know a guy who owns a VC Malte Chrono in Platinum and not only can he not pronounce the name, he refers to the hands as "arms". He also just got a new Ferrari 430 and when I asked him how many horses it had he couldn't tell me. I think you see my point. People who buy expensive gens are WAY past the point financially of seeing a watch as a way to impress friends. These guys need to own their own Gulfstream 5 or a 148ft Fedship to do that. Oh, and they have never even heard of TZ or WYS either... From my experience, most wealthy people come across watches while shopping for diamonds for thier wife. Seriously. They are on Rodeo window shopping and after buying a 100K necklace, they mosey over to the watch counter. They don't know much about the watch brands other than "Yeah, Patek is supposed to be good", or whatever and then the salesmen proceeds to sell them the watch. This is how all the major brands sell the majority of thier watches. They count on it. Most watch companies would tell you they don't even like the big watch stores as they can't ove the high end stock as fast a as jewelry store (Rolex may be the exception here though). Stores that really DO sell 100K necklaces are the best place to sell a 30K watch to the husband - not Tourneau. Plus, he has and excuse to buy somethinng expensive, but justified since it costs way less than what the wife got. LOL. They try them on while the wife is getting fitted. Just another Sunday shopping experience. So over the years they accumulate several nice pieces this way, but unlike us here, they don't seek out watches. The watches find them.

Posts like this is what makes RWG the best watch forum on the web - gens included. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it! Yes, mods when this thread has run its course and has been seen by all please move it to our knowledge base.

Thanks J. Appreciate it...

Personally, I have owned both gens and still have the PO. Superior in every way for my money gen wise. I have also owned the rep UPO in the big size. I agree that the 45.5MM looks best on rubber as opposed to steel - and the rubber is great on both sizes, but if you do go with the PO give some thought to the original design and versatility of the 42MM version. The 42MM is IMO plenty large enough to be sporty and substantial, but can double as a watch you can wear with a suit on a bracelet. I feel the large size on a bracelet is more than a bit unbalanced. It has always seemed to me by the dial that the watch was designed as a 42MM and then they just made a big size. Anyway, like I said, nothing wrong with the 45.5MM on rubber, but just know it is huge and purely burley and sporty. If that is what you want, fine, but if you want more versatility and elegance along with the sporty vibe you may want to lean towrds the 42MM. It is an entirely different watch in every way. If you do end up leaning towards the smaller PO, I would recommend getting in on bracelet and purchasing the rubber as well. Two watches in one for all occasions. Note the wrist shots below. My wrist is 7 1/2"

I honestly can't even believe I'm reading this. John, the guy started a thread asking each of us what we think and what we think he should do about it. I could care less what he or you or anyone does or doesn't do about it as it is none of my business nor is it yours. But alas, this is a discussion forum and aksing and answering questions and offering opinions is what we do around here. So that is what he asked, here is what he didn't: He didn't ask us to challenge each others opinions. Let him do that if he wants, OK? I offered my opinion. You offered yours. Does everything around here have to be an endless debate over nothing? Christ. You don't see me challenging any one else's view do you? So let's just cut it out shall we? Adrenaline has now seen a cross section of views and will make his desicion how to handle it. No matter how many times I swear to stay away from threads like this I never learn my lesson. The joke is on me for even thinking that I could ever once offer an opinion that wouldn't be vigorously and pointlessly challenged but at least one person. LOL...

Man I love that 196. I had an opportunity to buy a lumed ETA version at one time and I passed on it. Maybe that would be a good candidate for my 7750 transplant but I don't know if you can even buy these any more? So many PAM's are unavailable now even though shown on the sites...

I'm not advocating filing a PP claim, but I also don't think the guy needs to wait 45 days for a resolution. So you guys tell me - how much is enough time then in exact days? I'm curious. IMO, 5 days is more than enough time for anyone in any situation to respond. This issue is about common courtesy, not scamming. When I think of every tragedy in my life there has never been a time where I couldn't notify someone what was happening. If something "happened to my kids" or whatever it was, I would have at least told some key people who were waiting on me (like my employer for instance) within 5 days. If I didn't do that how could I expect my boss not to fire me. I had a right to be away, but he had a right to know why and for about how long. This is what Adrenalin is saying and is what he asks for. I don't care if the sellers Mother got run over by a truck (actually I hope she didn't in all seriousness). But, I GUARANTEE you his boss got a call if she did as did his friends who emailed him since by now. I'm also sure that he would surface if the power company threatened to turn off his lights. Get my point? He can also answer an email from a guy on a watch forum if he is holding his money which is to be distinguished from any other PM or email from people he didn't sell a watch to. If it was just a PM one could justify that he forgot because he didn't log on or something, but email too? Nah. Ah well, my advice, along with all the rest who posted here should be taken with a grain of salt Mr. Adrenalin. After all this is an opinion forum right? You do what you think is right. It's your money.

I think it is silly that you would ever have to give someone this wide a berth, but if you are looking for a number I would say 5 working days. No matter what the excuse - death, long weekend, personal emergency, etc. if he doesn'y at least respond to both a PM and an email by then you have to do what you have to do. I am aware that a PP dispute can have negative connotations in this hobby but the guy has got to do what he's got to do to protect his money. So 5 days from the time you first realize you have a problem - and make sure to tell the seller EXACTLY what you intend to do and when if he doesn't respond in both the PM and email. That way there will be no misunderstandings and you will have a paper trail to post in case he does a mind scramble on you and try and make you out the bad guy on the forum. Our reputations are all we have around here. Trust me I should know. If not for mine I would have been banned a long time ago...

...on this strap...

The VC Malte Chrono rep isn't bad...

I my experience Prestigetime is the best of the lot. I always get true AD quality service from them. Serials are always in tact and all original boxes, paper and stickers are there. he watches have never been in a sales counter. I once ordered something from Authentic and the piece came VERY shop worn. I went through hell talking with people who were unknowledgeable just to swap it out. Ben at Prestige will source whatever you want even if not on the site and the owner is always in the store. Ben knows watches as well as anyone on the planet and his prices are great. If you see a lower price on the net he will match it in most cases no questions asked.

Nice choice Dave. Kinda the best of all worlds. Congrats.

UN today for me...

I always wanted to love the Zenith El Primero's but the one thing that keeps me away is the double bezel. I just don't care for doubles for some reason. Otherwise I would be all over one of these. I think the smaller 40MM size wears plenty big enough BTW in part because of the bezel. The 45MM IMO loses the elegance of the original design. Phoband is right. This is amazing watch for the dough if you can live with the bezel design. Funny how we all have such specific design elements that we like and don't like...

I had a Panomatic Reserve at one time. Really nice watch. I felt that it had the most uncluttered dial of the series. The Panograph has the coolest movement though I think it is out of the price range. Pano's are very dressy though and I wouldn't think of them as versatile. One thing though - and the reason I got rid of mine - for some reason I just find that watches like this need to be gold or platinum to feel substantial. They just feel cheap in steel at 38-39MM on a strap. It isn't a snobby statement I swear but I think you know what I mean. I sold it because I realized that and then I realized that if I was going to spring for gold or platinum I would rather just wait and save until I could afford a Lange. I mean the Panos are nearly 10K retail for a steel watch, then you jump to 18K for gold and 28K for 950. For a little more you can have an L1 in gold or PT which is twice the watch IMO. GO dress watches are nice, and it is cool that they can be had in steel for a low price, but for some reason I just think that cheapens the brand somehow. I wish they just made watches in precious metals and sold them for a price much lower than Lange, VC, Patek, etc. Plus, paying close to 10K for a steel watch on a strap is a little crazy IMO. If I were to own another GO it would be either one of their sporty offerings or a Senator.

This varies quite a bit from year to year and model to model in my experience. I recently saw a PAM (I want to say it was an 89, but it may have been a 36 as I looked at both that day) and the AR was a real light powdery blue kind of like on my IWC AT Chrono. I had never seen that on a PAM as I remember it being more purple. Speaking of which, I am getting close to pulling the trigger on the new Jubilee vintage AT and that AR is totally different that the regular AT as I just mentioned is sort of a light, soft blue. Anyway the Jubliee AR is much more powerful and more purple and yet from the same line. I wonder why a watch company would vary from piece to piece like that? Makes no sense to me. BTW, my UN diver has AR which is dead clear. Totally colorless but really powerful. Never seen that before either. Anyway, the moral of the story is that I have never seen one manufactory that had consistent AR across all models and years. I wonder if any of our AR experts have any ideas as to why that might be?

A dealer would be taking a huge risk doing this, plus to have a parts account they have to account for what they do with replacement dials and the serials of the watches they go in I believe. Rolex is stone brutal. AD's are not even supposed to work on any gens with aftermarket bezels. And regarding the glacier dial in WG watches, Rolex is keenly aware that people will request this of their AD's to avoid paying for the exclusivity of that dial color in platinum so it is a hot topic. A dealer might do it if they sourced a dial for you outside the Rolex chain but I doubt they would order a glacier dial new from Rolex parts to retrofit in a new watch for you. I'm sure there is some dealer that would of course, but that would be an exception and they would have to know you pretty well IMO.

Don't forget the original UN Marine Diver which is 40MM if you prefer that size Dave. Essentially the same watch and same movement - just without crown guards. Wears much smaller and much dressier - although the Big Date may be a more suitable hybrid as you always have the option of bracelet or leather there as it was meant to be...

Another UN option for you Dave. I haven't shot it yet but I also have a UN Big Date GMT. If you are a movement freak this is a contender. The very first GMT with a patented forward and backward jumping hour that also moves the date front AND backward. Coolest GMT around. Looks great too with the option of a strap or bracelet. A perfect 42MM that goes with anything. Retail is $6500, but it can be had for less than your $5K budget. A LOT of watch for the money with an in house complication which is equally sporty and dressy. I have this version...

...or my personal favorite saying along the same lines: "I need another watch like I need a second a*s..."

Yes you are right the gen DD's and DJ's do always look bigger regardless of the case type. I think it may be a combination of three things and their interaction with each other. The first is the fonts on the gens are thinner and more elegant. The thinner font makes the dial look larger. The second is the smooth bezel. The rep bezel is too fat and doesn't have the sloped shoulders like the gens. So what that does is shrink the dial as it draws attention away from it. The sloped bezel of the gen "extends" the entire top of the watch effectively. Finally, the anemic indices of the reps shrinks the dials making it look less substantial. But all in all, BT is dead right. There are just so many variations of these watches over the years - bezels, dials, fonts, spacing, indices, etc. that one could even have a marginal rep of one of these pieces and it would be hard to call out because of all of this. At this point if you compared a DJ or DD from the 90's with a new model the older one would look fake if you were comparing it to a newer one to someone who didn't know both were correct.

That's the way you do it right there folks. Small, focused and yet versatile in a variety of dial colors and case sizes. Not easy to do considering they are all sports watches on SS bracelets. Good show BT.