panerai153

Incredible!!!

thanks guys, I have been thinking about a Blue dial /Insert for a long long time. I almost got one about 4 years ago, but the watch sold about 10 minutes before I could get to my computer to email the seller. I would like to use genuine hands if possible, but I would consider really good aftermarket. Probably are going to need to have the hands relumed to match the dial. I really think this one with the correct hands and a correct bracelet will be a real keeper. And a special big thanks to Lani. If he hadn't put up this thread, I would never have ever known about this watch.I seldom go over to TZ much anymore. I hate to window shop!! Arthur

Well guys this one is on the way to me. I made a deal with the seller for a trade plus a little cash for a watch that was sitting in my watchbox gathering dust. Here is the story as he told me. He traded a genuine Daytona w/ boxes papers, erc. to a collector in the SF bay area, the collector traded this Tudor and another Omega Chronograph plus a pile of cash. He told the buyer the watch was recently serviced at Rolex SF (And affiliate Service center not owned by Rolex) and what TeeJay said was exactly right. No genuine Snowflake hands were available, so they put Mercedes hands on the watch. Tritium to match the dial. So the plus is the watch has a recent complete service, the minus is I have to source a set of hands to make it correct. So guys, does anyone have a source for Snowflake hands? I would really prefer to use the real thing rather than aftermarket, even though I know they are much more expensive. All help advice would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks Arthur

Heed well the advice of the Wombat. Remember first of all, you are dealing with REPLICAS! Also you are dealing with products that are considered to be contraband and subject to seizure by customs authorities at any countries POE. An importantly, you are dealing with dealers who may or may not tout their Quality Control,buit essentially there isn

@jojo, Glad to know that. I was just using the photos, not their historical info. What would you recommend as good reference books on vintage Rolex sports models? Thanks Arthur

they still haven't corrected the slanting dial print or the crooked baton marker @6. If they could do that, they would have the best one out there. Unfortunately, so much has been said about those defects. everyone is zoned in on them.I do think that they are working to solve those problems, and I'm sure it's frustrating to them as well as us. The factory probably produced fifty gagillion of those incorrect dials, and wants them all used up before they corerect the mistake. Arthur

If this were my watch, this is what i would do. Email a copy of the WU statement to Eurotimez and ask them to open a claim with the post office, if you can't make any headway at the local level. If it was sent EMS, it requires a signature and a delivery scan. If it wasn't scanned at point of delivery and a signature recorded, technically it is still in the posession of the post office, even though they may have misdelivered it or lost it. I would tend to think that either it was pilfered inside the Post Office or it's still under a pile of undelivered parcels. If the post office scanned it "out for delivery" then the responsibility rests on the postman who was responsible for delivering the package to your address and having someone at your address sign for it.Generally that isn't the case, as the package had been scanned and the postman is putting his job and pension on the line for a package that he doesn't even have a clue about the contents.And honestly, you are blaming the Mailman, but there is a good chance he never got the package. Right before Christmas the post offices are flooded with packages. i have a running battle with my post office, between the main post office ,the closest branch and my mail carrier. I NEVER get packages on time. Even express mail which is supposed to be overnight almost always takesand extra day. The postman deliveres a notice but I never know where the psackage is, with the mailman, at the main post office or the branch office, and almost everyone I talk to tells me a different story. I agree with lani, you need to make sure you tell the post office it's watch parts and not a watch. It isn't going to do any good to go to your local post office and rant and rave about your package being lost. I would however make a copy of all the EMS tracking information and take that to the PO. Talk to the postmaster, not one of the counter clerks.Show him the documents that show the package arrived at the post office, but was never delivered.You might mention to him that the shipper is planning to file a claim if the package isn't found. I have found in most cases, if you aren't confrontational (hard for me!!)but are firm, most folks will be happy to try to help.

Is this a yuki type case, or MBW ? I'm looking at a photo and drawings in "Vintage Rolex Sports Models", and the case back looks different. Also in profile it looks like the genuine Crown placement is higher, almost in a line with the widest edge of the bezel. In this watch, there is a noticable space between the edge of the bezel and the top of the crown. It's very hard for me to tell from photos that may be off center, canted and not top quality. Here is the real dilemma as far asI'm concerned, How difficult is it going to be to fool 99% of the buying public, when the 1% who are fairly knowledgable about watches have a difficult time telling the fakes from the genuine. Ebay hasn't made it any easier either, and the scammers know it. Thye know that unless Ebay takes their auction down, it's gonna get sold! Ther is no way to warn bidders that the watch is a fake or is really questionable.Ebay in their misplaced desire to "protect" bidders, has played right into the hands of the scammers and crooks, with their coded bidder system. Another reason to "buy the seller first then the watch" Here is another thing that is odd. To me odd= Red Flag= caution. This seller sold another Red Sub a few weeks back for over 9k. He is also buying a lot of Rolex stuff, Genuine bracelets guarantee papers, boxes, Etc. So what do you think this cat is doing? Maybe buying genuine movements, or buying watches from pawn shops, etc. gutting them, for the movement, putting the movement in a replacement case i.e. yuki, aftermarket dial,hands,maybe a genuine crown/tube. bezel insert, bracelet. Scanning and printing the papers on similar stock, punching the serial number into the top of the replacement paper. packing it all in a vintage box with all the other stuff,anchor, booklet, red seal, swimpruf and selling it on Ebay for at least twice what he has in the watch. I've seen folks here talking about putting one together for around 3k, so add a genuine bracelet, box and all the paperwork, you still haven't got 4k invested. Sell it for 8-9 k and you double your money. Another big scam, and the buyer thinks he has the real thing until he sends it to Rolex in a couple of years for service and they tell him the sad news. By that time it's waaaaaaay to late to do anything. He's got a nice franken at twice the price!these are despicable scammers at their worst. Just my Dos centavos Arthur

jojo, How about giving some of us neophytes a quick tutorial on the differences? I saved the two photos, put them side by side, and I can't see anything outside of the patina. I would really like to know, and I'm sure there are lots of others who, like me, just can't pick up the subtle differences. Thanks Arthur

When you made the WU payment to Eurotimez, you should have received a statement with the amount, the payee (Eurotimez) and a control number. The control number is the only way they can receive the money from their local bank or Western Union office. You had to email or PM that number to them. If you have the document, all you need to do is send them (Eurotimez) a copy of that document with the control number. That is proof that you paid them. In fact the act of issuing you a tracking number and documentation that your watch # XXX was shipped is proof that they received your payment. They would never ship a watch unless it is paid for. You do need a copy of the Western Union statement with the control number. If you made the payment online you should have printed and saved a copy of the document. Who have you spoken too at Eurotimez? I would PM Helina, as she has been very cooperative in trying to sort out problems. I don

I agree with trailboss, something is weird about the cyclops. the longer you look at it, the worse it appears. IS the watch tilted forward a little? The cyclops looks like it isn't centered over the date window, and the numbers look fuzzy, like ink bleed? Just went back and looked at a photo of a 1680 in Skeet & Urul.It looks like the cyclops on this watch is too big. the genuine size is 2 ticks above the 3 and 2 ticks below. this one is 2 1/2 above and below. Not much, but when you make the photo 5X lifesize it really shows. Arthur

It's pretty clever how these sellers position the watches so you really can't get a good look at the dial, for a noob, it wouldn't matter because it looks pretty good, and all the paperwork would make it a lot more credible. IS this a genuine movement? Or a super clone? I would like to see the date wheel that might tell some tales. From what I can see, the insert appears to be incorrect. The bezel pearl is too large. Also the certificate is not the correct one for the early 1970

I believe that you are on the right track. Keep up the good work Arthur

That looks like a really good price, but I would like have to have some of the real Vintage Rolex guys weigh in on whether or not these have the correct shape and contours as the genuine. Arthur

Wow !! Man that is a great lume job. I've got flashlights that don't put out as much light as that one. You must have to lock it in a drawer at night to keep you from thinking the sun's coming up. NICE Arthur

Merry Christmas Rocky Topper!! All that info was from just looking at a photo on my Iphone. I have to say, the "100 Years Of Rolex' app is right handy, especially if you need to compare genuines to some that are trying to pass as genuine. Cheers Arthur

looking at a photo of and original, I see the following Dial: Rolex only on top, no Coronet, Antimagnetic is on lower side of dial not below Rolex. That's all the writing on the dial face except for the tracks Both tachemeter track and telemeter track are incorrect, no red lettering Swiss Made is like this "Swiss 6 made" Only numbers on dial are 12 and 6 Dial color on the original is more tan, this one looks white. Crown: Totally incorrect, much too long, original is much thiner and larger in diameter Hands: Incorrect color Genuine are blued steel and are shorter and thinner and are not sword hands Second hand has a round end, not the spear point like the Ebay watch. These are the things I could tell from a small photo of the watch in my Iphone "100 Years of Rolex" app. This one is pretty easy if you have access to a photo of the genuine. Another thing, these watches are selling for 20K for a "fair" condition one to well over 100K for a watch in excellent condition. So the first big tip off to me would be the small fuzzy photo and only one view. No one in their right mind is going to buy a watch in that price range based on what this seller is showing. Also no one selling a genuine is ever going to start a watch like that at 1.00 USD with no reserve. Another tip off is the seller has 34 total sales, with 2 Negatives and one neutral and both of those were related to watches he was selling. All his positives are for fake handbags and wallets, etc. This is the antithesis of "buy the seller first" He is Run like hell from this seller! Arthur

I think Therein lies the dilemma of the "super frankens". Just like building a house, your estimate is always going to be way less than what the final cost is. I believe that you should have two essential ingredients to get involved at this level. 1) You must be very knowledgeable about the particular subject that you are involved with. 2) You should have some skills to do a lot of the work yourself, possibly not tearing down and repairing cleaning and lubricating the movement, but you should be able to get the movement out, change dials, hands, Crown and tube bezel inserts, etc. All of this is going to require a lot of time and some expenditures for the proper tools to do the work. These requirements are certainly not inclusive. It certainly helps if you have established a good network of fellow members, dealers and parts suppliers, who can help you find those elusive, hard to find bits and pieces that you need to finish a project. As much as I hate to be discouraging, you probably picked one of the most expensive and scarce watches to duplicate. There are very few genuine parts floating around for these vintages, consequently parts are terribly expensive. For example, I saw a genuine 8mm Brevet crown on Ebay last week,

I agree with vlaletom, The crown should be 5.3mm. Really small. The problem here is if you try to go to the correct crown size, the space between the crown guards is going to be too big, and will really look odd. One of the problems with trying to mod replica watches. It

@ cyborg Have you ever felt or worn a genuine Rolex bracelet? All of the older models feel "tinny". My genuine GMT master bracelet feels like it ought to come with a 50 $ Timex!! I haven't handled any of the real recent Solid mid link and solid End link bracelets, so they may be much better. This V3 is a really, really nice watch. I believe that most folks would have to crack open the back to tell it's a rep. Arthur

@ Vly and Freddy. Both of your SD's are beautiful, I really like both of them. I particularly like the lume on both dials. They look like they aren't brand new 2009 models, but they aren't that overdone "burnt toast" color or yellow color that a lot of the re-lumes end up looking like. To me they look like 40 year old watches that have been well maintained and not been out in the sunshine every day for 40 years. I realize that lots of folks like that "aged" look, but sometimes I think it's overdone. Just my Dos Centavos Arthur

Merry christmas to all from the wet and stormy South Arthur

I believe that it was Ansel Adams who said, a B&W Photo forces the viewer to concentrate on the content, not so with Color photos that have the colors vieing for the attention of the viewer. Beautiful photography by a super nice guy. Have a wonderful Christmas season, and a safe and prosperous New Year. Cheers Arthur

Search the cRolex Forum, there was a thread about this a few weeks ago. I don't think from what I remember is the MBW/MBK case won't work with a genuine movement. you would need a yuki or similar case, but i'm not sure. i sort of flirted with the idea, but it's too expensive for me if you do it right. I do remember that the movement is a very old obsolete movement. Arthur

this issue seems to be coming up more and more these days, possibly it's bacause more and more reps are expensive, up in the 400+ dollar range as opposed to the 100-200 dollar range a few years back, the other thing may be some of the dealers touting their QC, their "ultimate, Best, Copied from a genuine, 1:1, etc.obviously lead to higher expectations of quality by the buyer.Years ago, the dealers were pretty up front that things may not be "perfect". I remember years ago Eddie Lee's waterproof warranty "Waterproof to run through a rain shower". In reality, QC with most is a myth. there are some dealers who inspect every watch, tweak them, and reject the ones that have problems. i would guess that this is the exception rather than the rule.Watches in China are assembled by "on the job" trained people, probably working on a "Piece Rate" basis, which rewards speed over quality. These aren't trained Swiss watchmakers who will not let a watch leave their bench until it's perfect. We expect a 300 dollar copy of a 7000 dollar watch to be exactly like the real deal, and unfortunately, it isn't going to happen.Sometimes you are fortunate to receive a watch that is as good as they can make it, sometimes the watch Gods are frowning and you get one that has a lot of problems, as you said it's a crap shoot. Arthur