By-Tor

First: I completely missed the gen bezel construction. Silly me... I only noticed the bezel looks thicker. About the bezel... now that you mention it, the bezel on the MBK version has a bit darker gold tone. I only can see it in the daylight though. The Noob bezel has been plated extremely well and smootly, but it really is more "yellow"... while the MBK version is more "brown yellow". Very small difference though. PS: Thanks all. @dluddy and Ubi: I agree, mixing both watches and adding some gen parts would be the ideal solution. Very expensive route. That's why I'd be very happy with Noob version + gen 18K crown (or even MBK crown)... or alternatively MBK with better datewheel (smaller date mag). But if you're not a Ultimate Geek like us, both watches are fine as they are.

I'm afraid that there's not much we can do. I have sent Pamfried a private message though. Let's hope he replies back and clears up this thing. His profile says: Last Seen: Yesterday, 08:20 PM ...so he has definitely read your pm's (if you have sent any).

@chris: The Noob dial color is pretty much spot on... but the MBK color is even more blue... it's deeper. Here is another photo, taken outside... just in the darker surroundings. The difference isn't big though. Double-click for full size.

I love it. I gotta have one of these.

No, definitely not. The MBK insert is glossy and beautiful. The pearl isn't awesome, but it's not bad, either. I didn't even notice the printing, but you're probably right: The printing might be better on the Noob. Difficult to see, except from those huge pictures.

I don't have very accurate scale, but both weigh about 145 grams, with all links intact. That's 10 grams more than a gen SS 16610 Submariner. The gen might weigh something like 150 (I have no accurate numbers) because the bezel is solid gold. But I doubt there's a significant difference.

The idea for this review came from Eurotimez, who originally sent me the Noobfactory TT Sub for a review a while back. This article is actually a sequel to that one. Read the review HERE. The idea is to compare the two best two-tone Submariners in the market. Actually there's still one top contender, the WM9 version, but that version isn't readily available through our dealers. I won't comment the gold issue (again), but both of these watches are said to have gold that will never wear off. I don't have a problem believing it, as gold looks and feels excellent on both watches. MBK (or MBW) Submariner 16613 is based on a very old replica model, and it has similar characteristics as the classic "TW Best" model. This replica type has very deep rehaut, big date magnification (a bit oversized actually) and very good quality "feel" which compensates the minutia inaccuracies. MBK/TW watches used to have low quality dials, but it has been improved greatly for this new two-tone version. This "2008 model" also has subtle ROLEXROLEXROLEX engraved on the rehaut. The crown guards are ok but not perfect. They seem to be extremely easy to modify though (just remove a little bit from the front insides). The "Noobfactory" Submariner 16613 is basically a Noobmariner with gold parts. It has shorter rehaut, but excellent date magnification. Some people claim it's a bit too small. I still think the Noob date is much better, because the double digits correctly will not fill the entire date window. The most impressive detail on the Noob is the dial print, which is virtually perfect. The Noob has better crown guards as well. I wouldn't even bother touching them. One thing that surprised me with the MBK is the amazing depth of the blue dial. Not that there's anything wrong with Noob version, but the MBK dial really screams quality. The bezel insert is much glossier and shinier on the MBK as well. The print isn't quite as good and sharp, but M and m align nicely and I don't find anything to complain, really. The rehaut engraving is a bit too tall, but it's perfecly symmetric (unlike the GMT IIc engraving). I'm not a huge fan of the engraving, and I'd choose my watch without it. But it's bothering me much less than I thought, it's not very noticeable in real life. We all know how good the "Noobfactory" GMT 16710 and 16610 Submariner dials are. They're probably the best rep dials ever produced. 16613 print is on the same level, but the color depth on the tt version isn't quite as deep as the MBK. Still, a superb dial. I think the dial competition is a tie. Here's an outside comparison of the watches. MBK on the right. Notice the stronger blue color. Also notice the thicker white crystal "seal ring" on the Noob version, which makes the area just below the crystal look "matte". This makes the rehaut look lower than it actually is. The gen Rolexes have similar "ring" but it's glossier and shinier. We geeks call this effect "rehaut thickness". The MBK has decent rehaut thickness as well. From this angle the MBK looks more accurate, but from the straight front view the Noob looks superior. Here you can see the difference in the actual rehaut depth. It's not that dramatic at all, but for some people this small difference has become very important. Personally, I consider the thickness effect and correct shape of the rehaut much more important. Noob is a bit too short, but it still wins the rehaut competition overall (just imho). The WM9 version is the only Submariner replica which has nailed this problem area almost perfectly. In the closeup pictures the MBK looks a bit "wokky", but it's not much of an issue in real life. The SELs are a bit nicer on the Noobfactory version, as there's a slight gap between the lugs and SEL on the MBK. However the MBK has nicer, thicker bezel and more accurate crystal height. Both watches have the whole SELs covered with gold. On the MBK (left) there's a gold layer over the SEL, and sides are just plated. On the Noob version the whole end link is "solid", as per gen. Visually, the inaccurate MBK SEL isn't any kind of issue, as it's very difficult to notice. Still, the Noob takes the SEL competition. The clasp on the MBW is way superior. The gold has been applied smoothly and almost perfectly. The picture probably doesn't show the difference, but in r/l the plating on the clasp area leaves a lot to be desired (on the Noob version). The plating on the crown is much better and smoother on the MBK version as well. The plating on the Noob isn't bad or annoying, but it's noticeable in certain lighting (and from certain angles). So which one is better? MBK feels a bit more substantial, it has deeper blue dial, deeper rehaut, and superior plating on the crown & clasp. Noob has better dial, better (smaller) datemag, better date font (double digits not filling the entire cyclops), better SELs, better pearl and better rehaut shape & thickness. The Noob is a bit more accurate of the two. If these were stainless steel versions, I'd choose the Noob without hesitation. But when it's about gold watches, there are some other factors to consider. The problem with Noob is that MBW feels a bit more substantial, and it simply "feels" more expensive watch. This has always been the case with MBK/TW watches, and I understand why so many people are fans of them. I thought long and hard about this. But from these two otb replicas, I would probably choose the MBK version. But then again, if the Noob had MBK's crown and clasp, I would choose it instead. MBK is over $100 more expensive than the solid gold Noob version, so this might be a factor to some buyers as well. The biggest annoyance on the MBW is the date magnification, especially with double digits. Noob crushes its competition in this department. A bit sloppy plating on the crown and clasp area are the "Noob's" only real issues. The Noob is definitely easier to modify to "almost perfect" shape. It only needs new crown, really. After the clasp gets the normal hairline scratches (and believe me, it does), the uneven plating surface will become much less of an issue. I can't really say which one is better, bar none. That'll be interesting to discuss in this open thread. Please post your thoughts and questions and I'll try to answer them as well as I can. Either way, after seeing these two watches I have changed my thinking of the two-tone replicas. Both are good and substantial gold watches. If you're a fan of the two-tone Submariner you can purchase either one of these with a peace of mind. These have come a long way in three years. Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed this article. Thanks also to Eurotimez (again) for borrowing these fine watches. Hopefully there's more where these came from. -------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE: I will not reply to watch/part/mod questions via PM from the members anymore. I'd love to help everyone privately, but my PM box gets flooded/spammed these days with these enquiries and I simply don't have the time. This is a hobby for me, not a job. Please ask your questions in the public forum where you have thousands of potential helpers. It's nothing personal. Thanks for understanding. By-Tor.

That's a beauty! Great pics too! One of the best reps around for sure. It looks like the price has come down too (at least relatively, compared to many new offerings).

Good Wednesday all RWG'ers! I'm starting the MidWeek with this:

Looks great! Hopefully we'll get a full review. It'd be nice to update the TAG Guide.

I wish I had time to set up my studio... but I have some work to do today. Then I have my friend's wedding in the weekend. But I think I can squeeze the review out for the next Monday or Tuesday. This watch has extremely well applied gold, especially on the clasp and crown areas. The blue dial is awesome & glossy. More later...

I just got this in. I'm doing a comparative review between the Noobfactory version and this. This MBK version is expensive, but I can already say that it's highly impressive in the flesh. Everything screams quality. Quick and dirty wrist shot. PS: These are not my watches, they're here just for a review. I will ship both of them to new owners after the review. Contact Eurotimez if you want to "reserve" either of them already.

Good luck man. With FedEX, you're going to need it.

You should say: "Man oh man... why didn't I order my watches from the EU-based dealers and saved myself from a lot of stress."

@dluddy: Bond SMP is of course one of my all-time favorites too. I wish I just could find a gen insert for mine. Actually I consider the chrono version even more impressive. Anyway... both are permanent keepers for me.

@dadog: That's an unusual watch! @chubb: Ditto. Nice Oris! Great to see something different from the usual Rolex-PAM-Omega lineup. I'm boring as usual... wearing the old & faithful: My 3+ year old SMP "Bond" classic!

We can always except only the best frankens from you! This is another winner for sure. I love the Snowflake!!!

I agree... people still call it "a ticking time bomb" and all kinds of other names. But these people forget that there must be thousands of new Asian 7750's out there already. And we rarely hear any problem reports of them, 3 years after they surfaced. It seems that the wandering '6 subdial problem and all the previous stopwatch reset problems are pretty much gone too (both very typical issues with the old movement).

RepAustria wanted to have his account & posts deleted for personal reasons. It wasn't any kind of "protest" against RWG, just personal reasons that he doesn't want to share. He might be back already, with a new screen name.

This is indeed a great post! Thanks Robbie!!! When the thread runs its course, I will pin this.

I agree, the rep is excellent. I'm still not sure whether I like the watch or not. Hopefully Eurotimez sends me one for a review (with an option to buy).

I didn't want to make any kind of statements because I wasn't sure if these old problems still existed. Angus said the movement was going to be new and "better", so I thought they would have addressed these known issues. It seems that this wasn't the case. I posted about my experiences about the old chs movement in the threads though... many times. Getting this watch with wrong hand stack Asian movement seems to be the most reasonable option (if it's a high beat movement).

@Ubi: Don't show those pics to Stephane. He'll lose his mind.

Good to see you back in the wristies thread Ubi... it's like the old days! Nice Snowflake you have there man!

Wearing this today.