By-Tor

As you know I'm not a PAM fan, but that looks impressive. Congrats my friend... and enjoy (of course).

No man... my posts don't need any "bumps". I was speaking generally... it's the general atmosphere which has been getting apathetic (for whatever reason). I was wondering why the interest has been going down... at the same time when the reps are better than ever before. Occasionally we get new enthusiastic members like Vic... but not enough. Maybe the summer really has something to do with it... but I don't recall the forums being this slow in the previous summers.

Nope. It was the same in June and July I'm afraid.

Actually, that would be hilarious.

Well, I've been wondering lately about the lack of response. But it's not only the replies that have decreased, it's also the overall "views". I thought I did good job with the Daytona FAQ, but it got extremely mild response. Stephane sent me his watch for this exact purpose... to review the watch for the membership, and it only got just a few replies. Looks like there's no interest and enthusiasm in these older models at all... Daytona has no double AR or anything... I know it will be useful for years to come (for the new members at least), so I don't really mind. But still, I have to wonder... Ziggy's AWESOME breakdown of Zenith El Primero movement has about 350 views right now (after months of its initial release), which is a disgrace. SeaDweller 4000's review of the Cousteau is one of the best I've ever read... just a few replies. WTF!? This forum has become very, very apathetic lately... and I guess we have to find new ways to "spark" the interest.

Hmm... I have kinda mixed feelings. It would probably look better if the hands and hour markers had some kind of dark surroundings... the all-gold appearance is too blingy and doesn't look that great against the white dial. Not an ugly watch though... just kinda "missed opportunity". imho.

Very sorry to hear that Euno. Please accept my condolences.

How are you... I'm starting the week with my magnificent Steelfish SuperOcean.

Welcome back man! It'll be very interesting to read a review of the seconds at '3 movement.

...before this beautiful watch goes back to Stephane.

My weekend watches:

Thanks for this generous offer my friend, but I will ship it back to you on Monday. No, I don't think so. It's not the movement, it's the 11 extra gears that potentially cause the problems. But Freddy's watch has been working for years... who knows, maybe you're lucky with yours too. I have noticed that your watch has very good power reserve which is always a good sign.

Excellent additions, thanks Freddy. Yeah, I remember that particular replica of yours. All Daytonas actually had this dial, where the 10 and 2 hour markers touched the subdials. But if you look at the genuine black version you'll see the markers actually ARE closer to the subregisters. This is quite weird indeed. They're further apart on the white version. See here: http://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk/images2...aytonaclose.JPG

Ah... there might be more than 1 versions of the "cheapo", because I recall Kanerich said that there was actually one that used the same case as the 7750 versions. This watch was offered by the infamous Watchhonpo... so that rep is probably out there.

Thanks Vic. Glad you liked the review. Resizing the pic didn't take more than 60 seconds though... with Photoshop "distort" option.

First, I want to say that this isn't my watch, it was sent to me for a review by a fellow member ***Stephane***. I always wanted to buy one of these, but because of the infamous movement setup (more about that later) I have always backed down. But I definitely wanted to photograph and review this famous replica for the community. There is no proper "FAQ" of the Daytona 116520, although it's one of the most requested watches among the new members. Let's change that. Stephane was generous enough to borrow his Daytona for this exact purpose. Big thanks! Read Stephane's original pictorial of this watch HERE. That review includes some remarkably good photos. If I ever had a favorite in the Daytona lineup, it was this exact model: White dial with silver/champagne subdial circles and hands. The "2001 model", to be exact. It has very understated and "low key" look. White SS Daytona isn't a flashy watch. It's probably not something that non-watch people would ever notice. But somehow, that's exactly why this particular model is so attractive. Apparently this is the case among the collectors too: white dial stainless version is hands down the most desirable version. If I had to use just one word to describe this Daytona, it would be "classy". A term that watch people have rarely connected to the recent Rolex models and releases. THE FIRST IMPRESSION: Before this I have never seen a Daytona "in the flesh", not genuine or a rep. It has such a legendary status in the watch world, so I was curious to see how it looks and feels. Say what you want about reps, but the high end ones are perfect for that. Anyone who considers to invest $7-10K on a genuine could benefit from reps that way. Wear it for a few months and see if it really is the right watch for you. When I opened the package, I noticed that Stephane had included two extra links for me (in case I wanted to try it on). There was also the Daytona user manual and some other niceties. Certainly something that I could use in my photo setups. The first surprise was the size. Of course I knew the diameter was the standard 40 millimeters, but it was still quite shocking to realize how small the Daytona was. I have been wearing my new Aquaracer Chronograph a lot lately, and compared to that, Daytona looked more like a mid-size watch. I can't help but notice that it also looks a bit "old fashioned", next to Aquaracer. To be honest, I'm not that impressed with the Daytona. It wears considerably smaller than a Sub and GMT Master. Mainly because of the smooth bezel shape, and because the bezel edges just barely exceed the lugs. It's certainly true: When you get used to bigger watches, the small ones start to feel a bit strange. But then again, Daytona is definitely not too small to wear, it's just "compact". Actually the size is perfect for men with smaller wrists. It would probably look cool on ladies as well. On the other hand, back in the seventies and eighties all sports Rolexes were considered bulky and huge. And many older people still consider them "big". Maybe these things go in cycles. THE MOVEMENT: The single most important article about this replica Daytona has been written by Ziggyzumba. His review and breakdown of the exact movement (that's used in this watch) is HERE. (Available for RWG VIPs only). When Rolex replaced the Zenith El Primero motor with an inhouse 4130 chronograph movement in 2000, they moved the running seconds to '6. When the replica factories released this arrangement, it was first considered a small miracle. But soon the members' problems with this movement started to arise. The natural subdial arrangement of ETA/Asian Valjoux is 12-9-6. So making the replica function visually like the Rolex caliber 4130, the 7750 had to be forced to run in an unnatural evinronment. Transforming the seconds from '9 to '6 has been achieved by adding 11 extra gears to the movement. (Read Ziggy's fascinating review for more detailed explanation). This modification is potentially very problematic. Some members have reported that their Daytonas have been working flawlessly for a year or two, but many members have suffered from various problems only after weeks or months (or even days) of use. Stephane's watch seems to be running flawlessly (at least for now). THE ALTERNATIVES: 1. Build a Zenith El Primero Daytona frankenwatch This is very expensive and hardcore option. Except to use 2-3 thousand dollars for a project like this. Ubiquitous have done it (among very few other members). Ubi actually built two amazing El Primero-powered Daytonas. They're very famous watches in the community, and without a doubt the best Daytona "reps" we have ever seen. Read about the work-in-progress project HERE. Read about the finished products HERE. Read Ziggy's excellent and detailed review of the legendary chronograph movement "El Primero" HERE. 2. Buy an older "seconds at '9" Daytona replica This is the cheaper option. There are older replicas of the Daytona, that have running seconds at '9. This arrangement tries to copy the older Zenith El Primero-powered Daytona (the model that Ubiquitous built). "Tricompax" layout (subdials at 9-6-3) is not a natural 7750 evinronment either, but this setup has been achieved by using only a few extra gears. The movements in these older reps are low beat 21.600 bph Asians, or Swiss ETA. These replicas are visually inferior to the seconds at '6 replicas, because the subdial spacing (and various other details) are way off. 3. Send it to Ziggy and kill the running seconds at '6 According to Ziggy, the only way to make this movement reliable is to completely kill the running seconds, and remove all the extra gears. Not very attractive option, imho. 4. Pressure the dealers to build a "faux" chronograph "seconds at '6" Daytona again There have been cheap, but visually excellent Daytona replicas that had completely frozen and non-functional stopwatches. This weird but interesting watch was produced with the same high quality and accurate body of the 7750 version, but it had a standard Asian 21J movement. The seconds were running correctly at '6. Lately, the interest in this particular watch has been increasing again. Realistically, it should cost something between $90 and $120 to be attractive at all. NOTE: Don't confuse this version to cheap-o Asian 21J versions with faux chronos! The version I'm talking about had completely frozen stopwatch hand + subdials at '9 and '3. These are the alternatives. Besides buying a genuine, of course. ACCURACY: The Daytona "seconds at '6" replica is fairly accurate, and the build and quality are excellent. The biggest flaws are the crown guards (which are only a bit off), pushers not visually 1:1, too deep rehaut and the fonts and text on the bezel. "UNITS PER HOUR" bezel text is probably the easiest to detect, at least from the big, zoomed pictures. Other than that, the rep is excellent. The dial and hands have wonderful details and finish. It would be very difficult to tell between genuine and replica, at least for me. The screw-down pushers and crown operate smoothly. Actually, the dial is nothing short of amazing. This is very apparent when we put rep and genuine side-by-side in a detailed comparison. The rep is on the left, gen on the right (gen picture taken from John Holmbrook's Rolex Reference Page). Some fonts are a bit off, and the coronet on the rep is a bit thicker and shorter. Other than that, fantastic. The concentric subdial circles might be more "matte" on the genuine, but I guess the difference is just due to different photograph lighting conditions. And it'd be certainly impossible to tell any difference without a loupe. Detecting a rep from someone's wrist: Nearly impossible. But if you feel that your default Daytona replica isn't accurate enough, and have a bit of talent, you might try improving the accuracy a little bit more. Freddy333 is a Daytona fanatic, and he has figured out very clever way to build a "nearly perfect" 116520 Daytona. What's interesting about Freddy's method is that the watch gets entirely built from replica parts, which keeps the costs very low. Read his great article HERE. CONCLUSION: When people talk about Daytona, somehow the discussions always move towards the "time bomb" movement. Daytona seconds at '6 (at least the stainless steel version) is very good and accurate replica. This fact has often been forgotten. Does it make any sense to buy one? Well, for people who are huge fans of Daytona... yes (maybe). You have to decide whether the benefits are bigger than risks. But then again, it's just $300... big money for some, pocket money for others. Personally, I would definitely buy one of the "faux chronograph" seconds at '6 models, if they ever become available again. I'll send this watch back to my friend Stephane now. We had a good 3 days together. Personally, I don't even like the Daytona (as a watch) very much. But boy do I respect it. Thanks again for letting me see and review this beautiful rep for the community. -------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE: I will not reply to watch/part/mod questions via PM from the members anymore. I'd love to help everyone privately, but my PM box gets flooded/spammed these days with these enquiries and I simply don't have the time. This is a hobby for me, not a job. Please ask your questions in the public forum where you have thousands of potential helpers. It's nothing personal. Thanks for understanding. By-Tor.

Thanks all.

First Clown Master II is already for sale on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-18K-YG-Yachtmast...1QQcmdZViewItem

The gen is ugly, and the rep is bad. Don't bother.

That's not "UPO".

Yeah, she's a pretty little girl, and will become a real heartbreaker when she grows up. Not sure about her taste in watches though...

Great watch. I have owned both white and black version. Although my watches were "hour hand settable" versions. See the reviews here: White version Black version

Really weird. Mine is fine too. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered. But that's just me.