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The point of my post recounting my experiences with one of our conspicuous dealers is that this is not a new phenomenon. Leopards and spots come to mind.

Little white lies.......

Don't expect it to change any time soon. We are a [censored] in the ocean for these guys' sales.

For what it's worth.... My first experience of Trustywatchguy was about 18 months ago when he was a 'photobucket' seller on "Photogallery 2" back on old RWG. He posted a face-on picture of a Breitling Chrono Avenger Ti with 7750 subdial spacing, advertised with 'Swiss movement'. The watch looked top class. It carried a pricetag of $150 - 'one only left'. I couldn't believe the deal, made contact and PayPal'd. Then something niggled at me and I asked what movement was in the watch and could he confirm the subdial spacing was 'as genuine' as one would expect with a 7750. Andrew replied it was a 'Swiss quartz' and sent back a picture of a completely different watch (one that looked not unlike Silix BRE102), and apologised that he'd originally posted the wrong picture. I asked if I could cancel the purchase, and I received a PayPal refund. It was not long after that when the 'Asian Unitas' appeared. Guess who advertised it as 'Swiss'?! Then I made the mistake of buying from Andrew (my rusty PO with the non-fitting strap). When the ultimate PO came out, of course - I wanted one - BADLY. I didn't buy it from the 'exclusive' holders - partly because of my experiences, and partly because the 'exclusive' hook (ie. the idea that I wouldn't get it from anywhere else) smelled of more Trusty [censored]. How many others jumped because of that one word, I wonder, thinking if they didn't then they would miss out ?! How many people paid $90 more than I did for this watch? I think 'white lies' sums up what they are up to perfectly. I do wonder if the irony of 'Trusty' in the name is not lost on the person using it?! Anyway, at Christmas time I wanted to buy my wife a watch that only Trustytime listed in stock. Rather than take the easy option and order from their site I enquired with Jay if he could source the same watch, which he did.

Agreed. I don't see this effect at all on my Breitling Seawolf.

Ahhh. Clearly Mr Cave didn't come far enough out of his after all.....

I got your Corgi's reference that other time, but you've lost me this time.......

Let the honest dealers be praised OK, I'll calm down a bit, but hopefully the "escalating war of attrition between dealers" [censored] will stop here! Those who know Jay will not be in the least surprised by his candid response. Let the others now meet his gold standard.

Hmmm. Interesting..... I'm of the opinion that anti-reflective coating (as the name suggests) should be unobtrusive, but I am seeing a trend that it is becoming something people are expected to notice - like a tint!! Some coatings simply change the colour of the glare. No thanks!

Always the perfectionist, Ubi! We wouldn't have you any other way.

I wasn't going to mention that

I'm liking what I'm seeing. I'm liking even more that this is a 'rep' with a history of its own. So much cooler than a vintage Sub.

Breaking news - there's a package waiting for me at home

All the ones I have in my possession are just dandy!

That looks complete [censored]! What exactly makes that a '2892' copy?! It doesn't have the larger rotor bearing that distinguishes the 2892/ST-18. It doesn't even have the microregulator that the ST-18 (Seagull) carries. Is it the same thickness as a proper 2892? I've had two reps with Seagull movements in them (an ST-18 2892 copy, and an ST-25 which is 2892 derived with PR function). Both looked infinitely better finished than this and proved ultra reliable and accurate. Even the corroded 21J Miyota copies I got in my Asian POs (from Trusty) looked better than that!! When the ST-25 based power reserve PAM reps first appeared no-one ever misrepresented them as 'ETA' even though the movement design is closer to ETA than this POS. Looks like someone just decided to start taking the [censored] one day....

There you have it, folks. The first authenticated example of a Swinese (or is it Chiss?!) movement

I was going to suggest PAM is like Range Rover - a utilitarian device that has taken on fashion status and grown into a parody of what it was for people who completely missed the point. But it isn't even like that, it's more like the Hummer pastiches built on humble road car chassis ie. no real pedigree at all....

It's nice, but will never make my shortlist because of the flaws. I don't have enough money to spend on all the watches I like that ARE spot on, never mind the ones that are slightly off, but when the cash appears it'll be the more accurate rep that wins the spend.......

Now I'm excited :D

PAM fever - relatively recent phenomenon. Riding the crest of a fashion wave. NOT classic. I'd agree about Submariner and Datejust. Like or loathe, they are instantly recognisable by the majority of people.

The witchhunt is unnecessary. This thread alone is enough to make sure any alleged offendors and purchasers take a bit more care in future when interpreting descriptions. It required vigilance on both sides!

I've not even touched the rest of this thread yet, but thanks for doing the call-out Pug!! Brave man! It was a year ago that the same Trusty watch person advertised the first of the Asian 'Unitas' 6497 copies as Swiss and priced his Pam sporting it accordingly. Caveat Emptor still stands, but as a community we stand not to be taken advantage of! And if someone notices the water tastes a bit pishy, the pisser shouldn't think they weren't spotted at the rim with their flies down....

But it beats faster?! Who'd have thought it - a franken that improves on the gen....

Yup! Having seen it in the metal a few times now I have to agree that the dial pattern isn't nearly as glaring as the intial publicity shots made it look. From even a short distance all you notice is the slightly paler appearence of the dial because the normal wave pattern is missing, and the '007' on the second hand isn't immediately apparent either (unlike the CR SE PO which screams it at you in day-glo orange).

If they do differ it will more likely be because of a change between production runs. I've seen more up-close pictures of ultimate POs from Josh, Trusty, EL, PT, River etc. etc. in the past few weeks to last me a lifetime, and every watch looks exactly the same as the one I have....