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You simply won't let go of that, even though you've failed to spot the irony that it was you who hijacked a thread which until that point had nothing to do with the poll - a thread about Oris watches, which seem to have a following - a sleeping popularity not unlike the TAG watches that were pilloried in here regularly until just before the summer when the Link Chrono appeared. Take a look around - you are too busy pontificating to realise that is you who brought your argument here!! I'll admit, I'm arguing for the hell of it now, but I think you need brought down a peg or two (but I'll refrain from the ad hominem, which you seem incapable of doing). For the last time - I don't care what watch was picked. I care even less that it wasn't my submission. Here's my beef - I don't believe the stated altruistic motives of the poll, I don't believe it will be as important to the development of a new rep as you are making out. I think it is simple flag waving by some people who believe they 'have the ear' of a dealer with links to a factory and want to make it look like they have influence, and when the master plan wasn't taken as seriously as they expected, said person started throwing the toys out the pram. If a couple of IWCs do appear then (as I said elsewhere) woohoo - well done for getting the Gst retooled and a new dial printed. Dose of reality required here! If you really want to gain some respect go petition to become a moderator or something......

You reckon?! As I said, i didn't expect you to be able to divorce my wishes from the argument. The closing 'ad hominem' attack is a cheap shot, and doesn't address the issue - which is that imposing your opinion of what a rep watch should be on the selection process, opinions that don't actually match reality, should not have happened. That's the point that is being argued around here. Incidentally, my choice was made first and foremost because it fitted the criteria with respect to authenticity and availability of movement. I chose it secondly because it conformed to the fashion of the day of large size and sporting looks, plus versatility of strap option. I chose it thirdly because Jay already carried some Oris designs in the past so would clearly be open to the brand and its popularity. I hope you can recall that is how I presented its case, before my thread was deleted. I don't really care anymore about what watch gets made from the poll, and I reckon a whole lot of people feel the same way because the process turned and twisted like a chip poke in a hurricane. Then when you moaned that it didn't work the way you planned it to - well, go and look why instead of blaming everyone else. My biggest fear is what happens if whatever does get made now isn't quite up to scratch and people either feel compelled out of loyalty to buy a watch they wouldn't otherwise have bought or, worse, don't buy it - leaving our friendly watch dealer very [censored] at us?! Because of this I think it is YOU who took a risk with the goodwill of this community, motivated by your own desires to be the godfather of a new rep (ideally one that fell in line with your criteria).

...and the patronising tone is getting boring (the thread chastising the community at large for not falling into line kicked it off for me...) Forget my personal desires (although I doubt you will be able to divorce them from the argument), but I ask - is this project really about just selling to us or about producing a watch that our community simply introduced to the rep world? I do not believe that the former will be viable for any rep maker, so if it is the latter then it has to have appeal beyond what we perceive to be the 'right' aspects of a rep watch and have a market outwith RWG. For example, ORIS is a brand with huge recogntion thanks to its association with Formula 1 motor racing and its sponsorship of the Williams team and previous affiliation with BMW. It sells extremely well in Australia, Germany and Japan, largely thanks to this (outselling eg. Panerai by miles in these markets). Formula 1, however, is largely ignored in the USA. TAG is a brand that suffers huge prejudice in the US because they dare to sell them in department stores as well as so called 'authorised dealers' and are relatively inexpensive, yet because of their strong association with motorsport and golf they sell exceptionally well outside the US market and are one of the biggest recognised brands after Rolex.

tvt about covers it, although I'm not as critical of the Seagull movements - I've owned two and one Asian 7750 and these three movements have been the most accurate mechanical timekeepers I have. The 7750 developed a problem with the chrono, but it took a proper watchmaker (not a parts swapper or mere dismantler) an hour and $30 to repair. There's also the issue of the ST Venus copy which most dealers still refer to as Lemania - a now defunct Swiss brand. As I said, it doesn't really matter what these movements are represented as, and I find it ironic that someone is making issue with possible misrepresentation of the contents of a watch carrying fake logos. Use your own eyes, your own judgement, and the advice and reviews of the many contributors here to come to an educated conclusion.

Firstly, let us kick that 40-70% nonsense out of the way. Unless an Oris TT1 chrono rep became the first Asian 7750 based rep to sell for $600 those figure are [censored]. Get real!* I disagree. If anything, a lower differential between the cost of the rep and the cost of the gen puts greater pressure on the rep manufacturer to get it spot on as otherwise the incentive to 'settle for' the rep is less. (Incidentally, I find expressions of 'rep snobbery' by members of this board the ultimate irony. If someone wants to buy two - or more likely three or four* - reps for the cost of one gen then who is anyone in here to criticise?) Some of our most accurate reps illustrate this point very wel..... TAG Link 2824, TAG Link Chrono A7750, Omega AT 2892/ST-18, 'closed factory' SMP 2892/ST-18. All top reps and all available in genuine for less than $1800 (heck, with the SMP you don't even need to go grey market or second-hand if you don't mind foregoing the co-axial movement and latest dial design, and I just googled for a TAG and found one new for $1200). Shall I go on?!

I hold that, unless you trust the word of marketing people and folks with a vested interest in maintaining the value of premium branding over your own judgement and the observations of people who work on these movements, who understand the engineering of them and can see beyond the nameplate, then it doesn't matter.

That movement is a Seagull ST-18. It is a copy of the ETA 2892, and is (unofficially) reported as being the result of a terminated agreement to build the 2892 in China under license.

Felt like the gen, looked like the gen, takes parts designed to fit the gen. The new bracelet is OK but a travesty compared to what this watch was selling with a year ago, and the deletion of the hour marker at three takes us back to the bad old days of this rep when this flaw was commonplace. The good pearl is poor compensation. @crystalcranium - the 'bay strap looks like a dodgy purchase. The first picture shows the same bracelet that Silix supply on their non-prime Seamasters (not too clever - a friend of mine bought one and the deployment completely fell apart) and the last two pictures shows the acid etched clasp typical of the latest generation of Asian 21J powered SMP reps. The ones in between look genuine or similar quality to the rep band of a year ago, but clearly they are not all the same band (look at the engraving and the rivet holding the mushroom!)

I could understand the requirement for an objective ceiling price for the project watch as the genuine was to be purchsed by Jay, but I always thought the floor price (especially when so many top selling replicas currently available have genuine retail prices that fall below that floor) was a superfluous condition simply to impose some peoples' idea of what a rep watch should be. The fact that the rule was enforced 'liberally' made that even more apparent. If this sounds like sour grapes because my choice didn't make the cut, then let it sound that way, but it doesn't change the fact that the whole process was maybe a victim of its own lack of credibility rather than anything to do with the people who did or didn't vote in the end.

There are plenty of people who will trot out the same old line that it isn't worth rep'ing a watch that can be had genuinely for less than $2k. To them I say it is worth repping ANY watch that can be put together to the same standard as the genuine (Oris use 7750 and 2824 movements) and sold to us for a fraction of the genuine cost (doesn't matter if that fraction is 1/10 or 1/50 IMHO). Genuine PAMs really aren't worth $10k plus, you know.....

So, why did the Tag Aquaracer survive the deletion process while the Oris Titan didn't? The objective standpoint is invalid here. Subjectivity on the part of certain people was always going to affect the outcome. As it is, the IWC is probably an ideal choice from the risk and hassle POV of Jay as 'our' chosen model is little more than a variation on the Gst, and that is exactly what we will get (ie. a re-tooling of the Gst rep and a new dial.... woohoo)

DAMN! They still got that bit wrong. The griding isn't THAT much though, but the lughole positions - now that is a pain....

Ah yes, the 'bacon' thread. I remember it well..... Can we close this one now?!

The simple majority has spoken, and as often happens with simple majority voting over a number of candidates a minority opinion prevails.... I'm just dying to see what is going to happen when the first generation of the watch appears with flaws and all its supporters are torn between buying it out of loyalty and waiting for the 'second generation'. The only person who will see the result of that particular vote will be Jay - measured by the numbers of custom built watches still sitting in a cardboard box gathering dust......

Are you still here?!

I think it is called 'giving someone enough rope...'

There are occasional examples of threads that make me wonder why The Loony Bin was dissolved. This is one of them. I could go into a long and considered debate as to why AMK appears to be talking out his [censored], but I won't bother. Instead I'll say this to him..

What he said! Smaller date window and slightly proud pearl are what give it away in the pics. I've always said the bracelet on these are 100% and your pics prove it. (PS. The CG's on your rep look correct.... for a GMT model )

That is exactly what they are for. It would probably do no harm to shorten them slightly if you don't have the locating holes in the watch case. @Doc - looking forward to the review (with pics )

Another James Bond fan (JTB will be pleased) Welcome, Dr Julius No.

Errr. The crown tube on the 'ultimate' Planet Ocean is internally thread, as per the genuine article. That catches a few people out. No need to replace, just put some light force against the crown in the direction of the watch body as you turn it and it will catch the thread. If there isn't enough to catch it may just be that the tube needs pushed out of the case slightly. Ironic that one of the most exceptional aspects of this watch that make it so accurate gets mistaken as damage!!

Nice use of the BB code there JTB. I'm not taken by the blatant use of the logo either... @Doc - gonna take LOTS and LOTS of detailed pictures of that strap, next to measuring tapes and stuff and send them to a certain dealer who has links with a strap factory please

You have to have a second set of lugholes drilled closer to the watch body, plus a large locating hole drilled into the watch body itself.

He doesn't have one. Simple as that. TTK is not a volume dealer in the way some others are. He trades in individual handpicked pieces rather than acting as the middle man for massive orders and drop shippers.

I've committed to an 'ultimate' PO on the basis that I know the genuine band will fit (thanks, doc!!). I now hope I can pick one up for something less than silly money or it gets repped. The production of this strap is a no-brainer now, even as an option for owners of the genuine article. The market is potentially enormous.