TeeJay

A perfectly tight movement holder would keep the movement and dial in place, but how would you get it in and out of the case- you have to have a little play for removing everything.

Hold down tabs help, but when the dial fits the case, everything works just that much better.

Have you uncased your Silix sub yet?

The dial which is fitted at the moment, is 28mm, so a 27mm dial would fit in without problem, there wouldn't be any clearance issue at all from that regard, my only concern, is if the rehaut would definitely cover the edges of the 27mm dial... I have uncased the watch in the past, but I don't have digital calipers, so I had to use an old fashioned tape measure to measure the dimensions

Found this on t'interwebz, guess its personal preference but I'm not really a Rolex lover but it would look similar to a PO or UPO on rubber in my unprofessionalised opinion

That looks pretty good The strap looks like an Omega strap, unless it's an aftermarket strap patterned after the Omega strap

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I hope it's of help

Well TJ, I appreciate you think "I" work on my watches.

It's not the case at all. I have not an once of talent in that field.

I'll try to isolate myself from work and put a review toghether asap.

But, in short, this is a TooMuchGear/Vlydog/MysteryModder collaboration...and at no stage I did something to the watch myself.

Oh...yeah, I will probably scratch it even more ...that is my very own talent

Well, regardless of who did the work, it's a very nice watch, I'll be keen to read the review when you have time

I don't see how sticky dots will help. You take your AK dial and yes you will have to attach it to the movement (which is 25.6mm in all likelihood- 2836-2, 2824-2, DG2813, etc.) with sticky dots or glue. But when you put the assembly in the case, if the dial is the same size as the inside rehaut, or just slightly larger, it's going to be very hard to position the dial exactly in the center and hold it and the movement in place without it getting kattywombus. If your Silix case has a 27mm rehaut opening and a 28mm dial- that leaves .5mm on either side of the opening. And the case is made for the dial, or vice versa. What you really need to do is remove the dial and movt from the Silix case and measure the inside rehaut with a set of calipers. Also, movement rings enter in to the equation, but the gist of the deal is, the dial has to be bigger than the inside diameter of the rehaut ring, and I would think by at least .5mm.

Ahh, I see what you mean... The combined dial/movement assembly could still have a little 'wobble' in it... Would the movement holder not prevent that happening, or does it really rely on the dial for that ultimate stability?

Thanks TJ...It was a long long term project ....and I'm still missing a correct Orange hand

It's awesome How long have you been working on it? I guess painting the Orange hand would be out of the question

I didn't have the opportunity to take photos yet...

But this is what I am wearing today

Very nice, my friend. Very nice indeed

Are they true?

(the obvious point of the question)

All just 'anti-counterfeit' propoganda.

Or is that just a sick no no and not done in polite society?

Welcome to the party, bro

I doubt it will work- a 27mm dial needs a 26mm showing (rehaut) inside measurement- your tolerances are just too tight- 27mm dial in a 27mm (inside measurement) case will slide one way or the other and not work.

How about if it's mounted with sticky dots? To be honest, I quite like how that particular Air-King looks anyway, so if it doesn't fit, the worst case scenario is I put the dial back in the original case Thanks for the feedback though, it's much appreciated

...and another thing? I know you all. The first sexy bird that's cited, you won't be able to resist your trigger happy thoughts......."Gee, I'd give her a Big Bang"

JTB

In that case, I'll have to mention:

CJ Parker... Lifeguard and somewhat New Age spiritualist...

I'll throw a new character into the mix

Captain Jack Harkness: Developed a strange fixation with the wardrobes of WWII, despite actually being from the 51st Century

Only seen wearing a Rolex Air-King date in Torchwood to date (although in a recent publicity shot for Season 3, he could be wearing a Tudor Chronograph)

No Rolexes or Tudors, as the actor who portrays the character frequently wears Rolexes in his daily life (and has been spotted wearing an Ebel Discovery Chronograph)

Has also been known to dress thusly:

So don't fall for the Forties obsession...

ok not freaks, but i have tried hard to understand my good friends on the board that obsess over the Sub's have 20 subs, vintages new ones, CG's its an ok watch, but, especially in the world of super reps, why go spend crazy money on a sub, there are tons of better "out of the box" watches out there - cheaper and arguably better.

now i'm not talking about the people who are looking for a fake rolex to impress the ladies at 2 for 1` drink night, i'm talking about the serious collectors on the board.

However, i have had a hard on for Ulysse Nardin for a few years, ever since i discovered "the freak" and, although having tried it on, i wouldn't actually want to wear it (i didn't say own, i said wear) i'm nuts for the brand.

I, in fact, tried on the Maxi Diver that we all know just came out, 4 days before it hit perfect clones - i tried on the Gen, i hated it, hoped they wouldn't rep it and concentrated on other models at the dealer.

i bought the watch, because it was the first UN super rep. And i'm in love. Real love this time, not like before, not like my fling with the 177h, my 1 night stand with a great white sub with clark crystal. this is long term, this is meaningful,

i can't help myself. I will be buying all kinds of various versions of these watches coming out, I'm totally all over the gold one when CNY is over - (CNY is good cause i don't have any $$ anyway

but, anyway, i know intellectually that my love is based in emotion in the brand. but i can't stop. I haven't had this long term obsessive compulsion since newbie-ness (ok well i have, but because it was a distraction to pain and not a real obsession)

so, for whatever i have thought of you submariner people in the past (its not all that bad, i'm just saying) i apologize

me too

Damn, exposed at last

Nothing to apologize for, dive watches aren't to everyone's taste, but, there's definitely a particular magic to them

Looking good Out of curiousity, what's the surface they're on? It's not a draining board is it?

Awesome watches, muchachos

Nothing particularly different from me today, but, I haven't worn this shirt in a wristie before, and it's been a while since I rolled my sleeves down, but today, I am absolutely

Wow! what a thread! Great read and a lot to take in.

Robbie: You and TJ share a birth DATE but from memory you're justa few years older my friend.

BT: Those pushers! OMG, there a whole half mm too long!

Col.

It's the same day, just different birth years To mangle a quote from the Highlander TV Series: Same model, different vintage

Correction: Sloppiness in construction is sometimes an issue. I mean, if you're referring to mechanical problems. Of course, reps have occasional visual issues as well... like crooked markers. Amazingly, I've never gotten a rep like that... maybe the dealers double check before they send a copy to me.

The only mechanical issues I've had... yes, they have been "complications". Correct hand stack GMT build is just terrible, and the Day-Date that I reviewed has a daywheel issue. And we all know the track record of A7750 seconds at '6. But with basic ETA/Asian 21J/A7750... I've never had even one mechanical problem... out of those 45-50 reps I've owned.

Yes, that's precisely what I was meaning. It will somtimes be an issue from the construction end. That's why I was meaning that any stock which makes its way to a dealers warehouse (or however they keep it) which is of 'factory seconds' quality, that stuff gets put in the 'bargain' section, and priced accordingly. I think the dealers would get much less complaints about things like that, (such as the member with the DSSD with the wonky 12 marker) if they were to sell them at a reduced price, on the understanding that they're being sold 'as is', with the aim of someone buying it as a mod project, rather than selling a perfect item. That way, they'd only be dealing with returns on serious issues (failures of crowns etc) rather than the more 'nit picking' stuff. I think folks would also then be less upset with their purchase, as they'd know that paying top dollar means getting the good watch, paying less, would mean getting something they know will be imperfect, but which they can then mod as a project To be honest, the only mechanical issue I've experienced out of all my watch purchases, was my very first PAM, which had no power reserve, and would stop after a few hours, and an FM Crazy Hours I bought for my wife, which did not 'jump' fully in the one go, although the replacement worked fine...

You are going to crack up, but I just did this. I'm not a bug the AD type at all but my UN MMD which I have had for maybe 6 months now had the slightest issue with the bezel just a hair off center and the datewheel just a hair off on two of the numbers and I brought it in yesterday for a quick fix. Goes to show the level of detail I'm into, hence my opinions in this thread.

But the AD was happy to do it for free of course, and even a bit embarrassed stating that he was surprised that the brand would ever have an alignment issue. "Those Swiss...Too much brandy in his cocoa that morning maybe.." was his statement when he looked at it. But the point being that I would bet 9 out of 10 people here wouldn't even notice it if I handed you the watch and asked you to find something wrong with it...

That's fair enough though, that's more along the lines of taking a car in for getting a quick tune up and oil change, what I was meaning, was someone who buys a gen, expecting a level of perfection beyond human capacity, because they've spent the dollars, it means a zillion % perfection, because it's a real, not fake R0lex!!!1, and keeps taking it back, several times, within a few days/weeks of purchase, having found a new issue each time it was returned to them. As someone pointed out on TZ once, the person who does that, has probably never bought anything expensive before. Of course, in the rep world, such a person would be told to just buy a gen... In the gen world, I guess the AD flips the sign on the door to 'Closed' when they see them walking down the street

I just saw this bro - yeah - exactly. Instead I go to China, try on the rep and if I like it I buy the gen.

Isn't it great that two guys with the same birthday can live out the exact same process in reverse? We should do a movie together - like Arnold and Devito in Twins or something...

Sounds like a plan, bro

i agree but when we go on the other scale of complicated watches the China reps are crap, i woud NEVER buy a 7750 or lets say base pam gen for more then 2k$ and we all now most cost much more.

but when you see have much a breitling emergency is and have complicated and its history its worth it.

same whit my EWA it has a damn alarm in the watch have crazy is that and more like date,second timezone.

so for my wis'nes those watches was worth the $$

Look above in my answer to T.

I myself is wearing a pam rep right now becasue yes i would not shell out 20k on a gen whit a ETA movment,

when i have 99% right now, did cost alot but again it was more fun then just buying a watch in a box.

but if you like watches its not always satisfaction to own reps when we go in higher "wis" scale then a steelfish.

Cheers

I think you're right there, bro, the higher up the ladder you go with the real world watches, the harder it is for the reps to keep up, and then the lesser quality becomes apparent. Not so much because the rep is a crap watch, if it was being viewed as a watch by itself, but just by comparison to the gen, which likely includes a few complications, and precious metals

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't say they are crap at all - nor are they inferior in any way. Dani and I most certainly don't agree on that. To me reps are not crap, they are just different. But I wasn't speaking about accuracy. They are very accurate. I wasn't speaking of "flaws" but rather manufacturing sloppyness that not everyone can even see or be bothered by. But to me, that Swiss precision - and NOT the accuracy of the replication is my hot button. Sloppyness drives me insane! I want to be able to gaze with a loupe for hours and revel in the fact that everything is perfectly aligned and clean and precise. And movements and complications are a whole other thing, but that is another thread...

So I haven't "lost my perspective". That IS my perspective. I'm just a guy that never really judged a rep on the merits of its accuracy to the gen in terms of visual flaws or even its materials (rep materials are more than fine), but rather the tiny differences, which to me make all the difference in the world, and which separate the amateurs from the pros so to speak in the watchmaking world.

But I definitely concede that what we are talking about is splitting hairs. But splitting hairs in the micro world is for some the whole point. That said, many of the errors on reps can be fixed too - or modded. In my case, I also used to enjoy that process. Now I don't. To each his own right. I just don't like getting a rep I'm excited about, finding out that the bezel doesn't center, the lume on the 5 is to the left by a 16th, the glass is dirty and the threads are stripped. Sure I could send it off to someone and fix much of it maybe, but I just say f*ck it and get the gen which I know won't ever disappoint me.

But I still love the 1:1 reps from a standpoint of being able to make collection choices without spending an arm and a leg for what amounts to a mistake. So now I buy reps and if they are screwed up I don't even notice it because I know I'll never keep it. There is a purpose. If I fall in love, I'll sell it and get the gen - if I don't I'll sell it and not get the gen, and then on to the next one. But given that my love of watches in in the precision of the details, I had no choice. I just couldn't stand being bummed any more since I don't have the inclination or time to "fix" and "mod". Trust me, I have done my fair share of that. You could ask quite a few watchsmiths on this and other boards who are holding thousands and thousands of my money for such work. Now I just give that and more to Switzerland instead, PLUS to China because I still buy reps too. I just don't keep them for as long as some...

I quite agree with you, bro, as I just posted to By-Tor, it's not flaws in replication which are a problem, but sloppiness in construction which is the issue. Okay, I appreciate where these watches are coming from, I understand who's making them, and I accept all that. I accept that human error means that even the most dilligent builder will eventually make a mistake while building their quota. It might be something small, it might be something glaringly obvious, but those're the watches which as above, dealers should not be sending out to people who have paid top dollar for them. Bargain bin specials, sure, but not full priced watches, as people's expectations are for a quality watch

I seriously wonder people who say that "reps are crap compared to gens". That might be true when we're talking about high horology pieces like Breguet and Vacheron, but Rolex, TAG, Ebel, Omega, Breitling, etc. are all mass produced watches, and the reps are actually damn good and accurate. Especially those that have ETA & Valjoux 7750 gen counterparts. At least Rolex only uses the inhouse movements, and I can see why that's important for some... but most gen Breits, Omegas, TAGs... very good and solid automatic watches, but if we're honest they're nothing that special mechanically.

If someone says the reps of these watches are crap and "full of flaws", I think the person has lost his perspective. They're amazingly accurate and close to the gen "feel" in every possible way. Look at reps like Ebel Discovery for Christ's sakes... what "flaws" you're talking about? Or the new BCE... those possible flaws are so ridiculously small... and they're still rather obscure models... I mean, who could possibly be geek enough to give a crap?

Maybe I'm just not WIS enough... but it doesn't really make a lot of difference to me whether I'm wearing my gen or rep Rolex. They feel and look 99% the same. GMT Master II is a bit different for me, because I like the mechanics of 3185. It's a great movement that reps can never duplicate properly. But modern Subs, Sea Dwellers, etc. I'd never invest $5k on one.

I have to agree with you there. It's like I said to Robbie yesterday, the only rep I've bought which has the kind of unacceptable flaws mentioned (all in one watch) is the Canal St PAM I picked up in Spain. Even then, the dial is clean, that's why I was considering making it a project watch Okay, I might not be buying Super Reps, but when the dial on a $100 GMT Master II can have totally even dial print, each indice properly aligned, and with lume which lasts all night, it does make me wonder just what garbage is being sent out, and what makes dealers think people will accept such substandard stock. I know, people will always say "Well it's only a rep, what do you expect..." Well, if the factories can make most watches at a reasonable standard, they can make all watches at that standard. I know, there'll always be 'factory seconds', but they shouldn't be getting shipped out by dealers as the quality items listed for sale. Offered as 'discounted seconds', or 'good for a project beginner', perhaps, but not as a full price watch. It's like when I said to someone last week 'Buy a gen' because they were concerned about the color of the GMT hand on their asian GMTIIC (which actually matched the dealer's photo of the asian watch) Okay, it might not be the right shade of green, but boo hoo, it's still green, it's not as if it's blue Those're the kind of folks who will only be satisfied by a gen (and would then likely take the gen back to the AD five times, because the bracelet links seize together, or the date wheel doesn't flip at precicely12:00:00 hours, or because the dial is shifted .1mm to the left... People like that will never be satisfied with anything less than 100% unadulterated perfection, which sadly, does not exist even in watches of Rolex prices )

What of the rumors that rep watch sales fuel/finance the Taliban and their murderous, religious supremacist operations?

What of them?

Ah thanks, TeeJay, so it's Robert (PWC).

So, what do you guys think of the one Piratedzeus posted?

Also, what do you think of Watcheden's version?

I've only dealt with Robert the once, but found him pleasant to do business with. To be honest, I would have said that the version Piratedzeus posted is the same as the one on Tony's site, but the quality of photography on the first one is different, making the dial and insert look a bit darker, and less garish, so I would say that the difference is just an optical illusion created by different lighting conditions at the time of photography