TeeJay

Out of curiosity, is the GMT hand running on a 24 hr sweep with the main hands? If it's not adjustable at all, that might well be all it will do. If that is the case, and it's not even synched to the correct time zone, I'd suggest stripping the watch, re-setting the hands to 12, pulling them off, putting the GMT hand on set to 12, and then reassembling. Sorry to hear you might've got a lemon...

Not sure if it's intentional, but in GTA:San Andreas, a watch very similar to the Chanel J12 Superleggera is available to CJ at the begining of his exploits...

My fiance quite liked her J12 (which was put on a white faux-leather bund strap when the coated links got beaten up) but she immediately ditched it in favor of the Hublot Big Bang Aspen (and the J12 was lost for several months in a bag, but when it was found, the quartz movement had kept perfect time )

M - stainless doesn't seem to bother me. I'm wearing my Rolexes alot now because they don't cause the inflamation, nor does my Ti Breitling (wearing today)... I think it's the leather. But it is very strange that it is the underside of the wrist only.

It could only be affecting the underside of the wrist as the skin there is much more sensitive and delicate than the skin on the other side and sides of the wrist. It is also an area with typically thinner hair coverage, so it would also be (slightly) more in contact with the strap than the other parts of the wrist...

And I know it, too, TeeJay! It's awful really. Sometimes I feel the circulation being cut off, so I have to loosen it.

Today I wore the Fiddy very loosely, and I didn't scratch or feel chafed at all...

...just like you as a child.

If I recall, the operating manual which came with my Casios advised wearing a watch with enough slack to insert a finger between the wrist and the strap/bracelet. That's certainly always been the rule I've tried to stick to. If I really wanted to, I could just about force my Planet Ocean (on rubber) to twist round my wrist, but it would be a push. There's just over a finger's worth of slack on the strap, and personally, I find that the perfect size for a watch as it lets the watch move about on the arm as needbe, without slopping about.

For the record, I never have problems with thinner leathers, but the Pacis and Zeugmas etc are about 5.5mm thick, yikes!

Thanks, TeeJay!

Interesting. Stupid as it might sound, the thicker leathers might be 'more warming', and 'heat things up' more than the thinner leathers... Might just be fractions of a degree, but, in microbiology and chemistry, those minute variances can make all the difference.

I have heard of people being electromagnetically repellant to watches, so I guess I personally lucked out.

It's certainly a real phenomenon. I have a cousin who can't wear a mechanical watch for more than a few hours without it stopping, so she's always been forced to wear digital

I think that the white dial certainly looks more 'dress' than the black dial (and even then, the watch is very versatile) I really liked the color of the white VCO, as it's a really nice off-white, that said, I just didn't like wearing it, and seem to subconsciously prefer dark dials. If you have a white dial which you like, then you might well like the white dial VCO. Best of luck with your purchase

Gorgeous watch I only wore my 127 for about 12 hours before deciding to ship it back (and I'd still like to get another) but it made quite an impression. Too big for daily wear, but certainly nice to swap into every now and again I'm sure you'll be wearing the 127 way more than your Rollies, which might now feel a little small, and, dare I say 'feminine' in comparison to such a large watch

Oh, and I take back what I said about the strap, it looks great on the watch

Wear it well, amigo

Thanks, Tootall!

In my case, since I recently came from a battery of allergy exams, having gone through my "infamous" lotion rash over a fortnight ago, I was tested for allergies to nickle, etc. (having mentioned my watch hobby to my dermatologist/immunologist) and it came up negative.

I also have irritation on the upper side of the wrist, which suggests to me I wear my watches too tight as it's chafing there too.

However, good advice overall from all who replied.

I remember from one of your 'wrist checks' (without a watch) that the imprint of the watch and strap was still visible on your wrist. To me, that says you're wearing the watch too tight. I used to do the same thing when I was about 10, and would buckle my Casios as tight as they'd go without cutting off the circulation. Not so long after that, I developed a rash on my wrist, which, when I temporarily transfered my watch to my left wrist ( which felt ) cleared up pretty fast. Since then, I've never worn a watch as tight, and can always get a finger between my wrist and bracelet/strap. [Edit to add] And never had such a rash develop under a watch again...

On topic, my initial thoughts were that it might have been a reaction to the chemicals in the tanning/manufacturing process. I'm intrigued that people think it might be a nickel reaction to the buckle. Not so much that it's not a possibility, but I just would have thought that the buckle wouldn't have come into close enough contact to the skin to cause a reaction, which was why my first thoughts ran to chemical reactions...

Hope it gets worked out

Sad

And you reckon people knowingly live like this?

.

I've no idea, but that's what I read

Congrats for the new job!!!

I really do not understand this post...

why anybody should be concerned which whatch to wear the 1st day on his new job?!!!

what difference does it make...can somebody explain that to me?

From what I've read, it's just a case of ettiquete and common sense. Someone in a board meeting wearing a watch vastly more expensive than their pay grade would allow is going to either raise suspiciouns, or be a sure sign of a fake. I've read that the best choice for a corporate environment, is a watch within, or slightly above the pay grade for the position, as that way it is a believable purchase (maybe a treat to self with a bonus, for example)

I would wear the Omega Planet Ocean. It is not to expensive and look ok in that environment. The bigger question I would want to know is what do you drive. That to me would be more important. As an employer I like to look out over the lot and see nice cars new cars. If I was to hire a guy for any type of mid level mgmt type position I just wouldn't want him drive something too low profile. It upsets the clients I notice.

My senior It guy drives one of those new lotus Exige and has an older Boxster. I also like the fact he isnt married. That just means I have some one to hangout with sometimes after work.

By the way he wears a gen solid gold sub!!

GO BIG OR STAY HOME AND SUCK ON YOUR THUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thumb-sucking is a cheaper and healthier habit than smoking Doesn't make one's clothes stink either

You've not worked in many European cities then. Practically no-one drives.

I don't even have a driver's license; I've never needed one. The closest I get to driving a car is ... um, I ride a Ducati 748 and there's no way I'd ride it to work.

I don't drive either. I simply never had the need to learn as everywhere I needed to get to was either within walking distance, or I could get on a train. I'll get round to learning eventually, but it's not the top of my list of priorities.

Nice choice with the IWC, I hope the first day goes well And remember, no matter how cute the girls in the typing pool are, it doesn't do to dip your nib in the office ink

TEEJAY........no. Ignore. Don't wish someone death using alcohol which could take out even more innocent lives. ((

This is a rep watch forum people, come on, there's no room for hatred here. Just dissent...

Sorry, but there's only so much ignorance from a jackass that I'm prepared to take. Ham's the kind of person that has no business being behind the wheel of a car and frankly, comes across as a disgusting example of a human being, and I'm sick of playing 'Mr Nice Guy' and tollerating people's insults towards me.

I figure with enough practice and my steady hand I should have some decent results after a few "debacles"

Found it on the greatest fencing operation in the world:

Nocti-lume

Can't wait to see the results, best of luck with the projects

I am so glad that I have TeeJay on "ignore", his pointless whining posts are a waste of time. I only responded because another member told me what you said, and I see you have several follow up retorts which are no doubt really intelligent and illuminating to others who are craving to be annoyed, but I have long ago stopped reading your tripe.

Don't you have a wrist check to take on the freeway? Down a bottle of jack before you start out, you'll be doing the world a favor

Darn tootin'.....when George and Maria were charging $430 for MBW's.....I brought them down to $350.....with EMS included.....!

And a damn fine move that was Nothing like a little healthy competition to bring about market changes Out of curiosity, how does one aquire a pet wombat? Was it a rescue/adoption?

I don't think so. I think the majority of people in the West are well aware of the political limitations of the Middle East, and have done so for centuries. This is precisely why when the Ottoman Empire collapsed, having backed the wrong horse in WWI, Western countries intervened, leading us to the path we are in now.

There is no ignorance here, politically. Religiously, yes. But it goes both ways, I might add. How much of our ways are truly understood by those in the Middle East, without conspiracy theories?

I can also make the point that political oppression, divisive religious leaders and grinding poverty for centuries have never made South Americans drive jet planes into US buildings.

There is something going on, and people are looking for that variable which makes it different. I don't think I need go on.

Anyway, as Pugwash said, this is the internet. People will take an innocuous thread about the Middle East, and someone will bulldoze their views onto it. It's something we have to live with, but since we can choose to make a point and walk away, that's what I am choosing now.

Hope my intent has been understood.

That's absolutely fair enough. Maybe I am somewhat biased in my view of American educational standards due to anecdotes from a cousin who lived in Houston, but from what I have read on other forums, there is a lot of unintentional ignorance about Islam. I myself was once of the opinion that it was an utterly vile religion, but a recent experience made me reconsider my opinion, research Islam more fully and with a totally open mind, and now I am proud to call myself a Muslim and live by the guidlines laid down in the Holy Qur'an

And indeed, your intent was totally understood Sometimes, one must play devil's advocate for a subject to be properly discussed

Unfortunately, there is such a thing as jihad in Islam, and it is invoked in the name of Allah, Mohammed (PBUH) and Muslims.

If the Pope himself, whom I revere, were to tell me that as a Roman Catholic it is now my duty to kill Muslims/infidels/unbelievers, I would spit in his eye, and ask for his immediate resignation. As would millions of other Roman Catholics.

The few who would take up his call to arms based on religious invocations only, would be ostracised in society as lunatics, and tried in their criminal courts of laws rightfully as murderers.

That simply doesn't happen in Islam, and that, to take the Devil's Advocacy point in Hambone's stupid remark, was his point.

As I said, lads, this topic can be discussed ad nauseum. No, it's not really about politics. It's about behaviour. So let's worship when we have to, and keep our counsel when we must.

Absolutely so, however, the Holy Qur'an itself specifically forbids 'throwing yourself into destruction' (aka suicide bombing) and states that when fighting against disbelievers, a jihadist must first give the infidel the option to accept Islam, failing that, the option to pay a 'tax' and live as a dhimi*, or as a last resort, smite off their head and finger-tips. The Holy Qur'an also states, that when fighting in Allah's name, one should not exceed the bounds, as Allah does not love those who exceed the bounds (which a suicide bomber most certainly would)

As previously mentioned, not all Muslim Communities have that freedom of speech, and, a major contributing factor to Bin Laden's 'jihad' is economical and political, not religious, he just uses religion to manipulate weak-minded and impressionable people into following him. Of course, I wouldn't expect people unfamiliar with Islam to appreciate that.

Absolutely so. To quote from the Holy Qur'an:

SAY: O ye UNBELIEVERS!

I worship not that which ye worship,

And ye do not worship that which I worship;

I shall never worship that which ye worship,

Neither will ye worship that which I worship.

To you be your religion; to me my religion.

(emphasis and punctuation as written in the Holy Qur'an)

*a non-Muslim who is allowed to live within a Muslim community and retain religious autonomy, but is considered a 2nd Class Citizen

Anyone seen/used a Motorola F3?

Basic, simple, minimalist, but damn it's nice

Sure, my long-term plan is to replace my V5 Razr with the latest gen Razr in the new year, and, having a camera function, calculator, datebook, and text messages which can have upper and lower case letters is nice, but, for going on vacation, an F3 is plenty good enough to risk immersion in water/getting scuffed up/stolen by local pick-pockets

You know what I find offensive Teejay? I find it offensive that not one, not two, but three of my closest friends were murdered in the World Trade Center towers by Musilm fanatic bastards on September 11, 2001. Murdering bastards is what they were and always will be. I am also offended that people of the Muslim faith do not speak up more and do more, and they could if they wished to,do a hell of a lot more to stop the cruelty and murder carried on in the name of thier "Allah" It is beyond despicable the atrocities these murderers carry out daily and the rest of the Muslim world sits by and does nothing. So if someone is offended that I might joke and say that "Allah blows goats" is something to avoid saying in the mideast, let me add that they should also include that they should not say "Allah blows cows, dogs, pigs, rabbits and werewolves". If that is offensive,then TFB. The murder of my friends is more offensive, and this is how I deal with it.

Sorry for the delay...

I also had a friend killed in the WTC, I have a cousin who would have been killed had his business meeting not been called off, and I have a friend whos aunt was on one of the planes, so don't think you have a monopoly on grief on that issue, and don't inflict the bigotry of your 'coping strategies' on others.

If you seriously think that the fanatic scum who carried out those attacks represent the vast majority of Muslims, or are acting in a way consistent with Islam, then frankly, you are an ignorant, bigoted fool.

There are plenty of members of the Muslim Community who speak up against terrorist attrocities. What you must remember is that in some countries, like Iraq, the people there do not have the freedom of speech to speak up, for fear of reprisals. Also, the reason behind the attacks has virtually nothing to do with an 'Islamic Crusade' against the West, but people in a region of the world getting [censored] off by a bunch of Western Politicos telling them how to run things.

I was not so much offended by the comment you made about Allah, but your insinuation that all Muslims are extremist fanatics. Try reading the Qur'an, you might learn something.

Out of curiousity, are you a religious man? I recall you are married, was that a civil or religious ceremony? I'm asking purely out of idle curiousity.

[Edit for SPAG]

Wow, I can feel the love all the way from here.

For T- Obviously you are talking to someone who is in it to make $$$$ as well as a hobby. and there is nothjing wrong with that.

As for TTK- You take care and pride in your business, althought it is illicit, do not ever complain to customers and justify the gouging ( o yes it does happen here) for the "risk"

If I did not like the risk asssociated with my "job" than I would surely change my career path.

Now shake hands and have a Guinness

Absolutely, and I have no issue with that or TTK at all. Infact, he's one of the few forum dealers I would consider buying from if I was having difficulty sourcing a piece. Sure, he can be abrasive and has no tollerance for a55holes, but that's the way I like people. I have no respect for two-faced people who say one thing and mean something else. We may be disagreeing on this issue, but he calls a spade a spade, and I respect him for that. I also respect that people don't accuse him of being a scammer.

Indeed, Guinness's on me

I thought this topic was about pricing, not about your rant concerning A&J? We all see your signature. We get it, TJ.

Boo Hoo. Off-topic it might have been, but it was IN CONTEXT as a reply of my conversation with TTK.

@WB....you won't hear me complain about the risk...I'm a big hairy arsed boy who knows the risk....Isimply EXPLAIN to all those whiny whingy arsed moaners like TJ....that you have to take EVERYTHING into account ....these guys think that because they see or read about someone picking up items in Guangzhou at low low prices....that every dealer should be selling at those prices......lemons....!

Whiny? I'm not one of the people whining about prices being too high, infact, I've said several times that my opinion is it costs what it costs and either pay the price, save for the price, or look for cheaper alternatives. I've never actually said anything about getting prices lowered. If I have, please quote where I did so.

As for a career path....that ended when I retired....I leave that to the young Turks like Josty and Thrushy......I pick and choosemy customers....if I don't wanna deal with someone...I don't...I pick my watch....then choose my customer....!

I'd love to see how well that attitude serves you on an auction site where you don't have a forum full of willing buyers to choose from

On RWG you don't choose Dealer, Dealer chooses you!

TJ's just a ranter who feels he got turned over.....

Feels?

You think I'm imagining not receiving goods for nearly 12 weeks? You think I imagined making the paypal payment to Silix? You think I imagined the email telling me that the goods would be shipped out? Silix is nothing more than a drop-shipping liar. Oh, but I forgot, 'recommended' dealers here don't rip off people do they.....That only happens on CQout....

best advice....get a life....

Got a good one, thanks, that's why, as I said above, I'm not chasing down the parts I'm owed. That's not going to stop me from pointing out the lies in the Forum Propoganda.

in his tiny mind he thinks I'm expressing sour grapes...'cos he won't buy from me...

You're not?? Now that is funny

On RWG, you don't choose Dealer, Dealer chooses you

[Edit to add]

Yes, I know it was a joke

Opinions are like arseholes....everybody has one....in my case....I could care less about your opinion.....it matters not a jot to me..it won't affect members who do business with me...and with new members who come along and read the 'bad' review....when that 'bad' review is countered by 'good' reviews....your opinion will carry no weight at all.....same as your 'mission statement' contained in your siggy...the problem is that you think your opinion matters...and that it will influence people.......it may ...but not to any significant degree......ask most members...who is TeeJay....and a significant numeber won't know you...but ask them who is Josty or Thrushy ..or Angus or Ruby...even TTK..and they'll know immediatley.....

Oh dear, talk about sour grapes because I'm not grovelling to do business with you

I don't think my opinion is worth more or less than anyone else's opinion. As you say, opinions are like arseholes and everyone has one. As I said before, and which clearly went over your head, I was not talking about MY OPINION, I was talking about an opinion which permeates forums. So people don't know who I am. I couldn't care less. I wouldn't expect people to know me, and don't desire the attention, once more, you are using totally false choices to try and deflect the discussion from the actual issue:

Forum Propoganda = Only 'recommended collectors' are honest. All auction site sellers are scammers.

That is what I object to, and what does nothing to help people who are afraid to think outside the box. As Ken mentioned with the shooting fish in a barrel scenario. Dealers who pay to sell here are effectively having the customers funnelled to them. I wonder how well those same dealers would fare if they had to rely on auction sites, where all transactions are visible and no negative rep goes unread or unregistered, and having to directly compete with other sellers. Sure, there's competition here, but not like there would be on an auction site. It's easy to act like a big fish when you're in a small pond.

posting your opinion in the forlorn hope that people will listen to you....is a lot like pissing in the wind....

Boo Hoo. So it's my time to waste. If people don't want to read what I write, they can put me on ignore. Funny how the dissenting voices are always ridiculed and marginalized. Sounds somewhat fascistic to me... On RWG, you don't choose Dealer, Dealer chooses you

the LWL thread proved that,.....DESPITE the establishment of truth that J&A were lying.....it didn't drive the customers away...J&A are still doing business....

Sure they're still doing business, but as Pug pointed out above, their business practices have changed. They knew they'd pushed their luck as far as it would go, people called them on it, and they've made changes. Obviously, not as futile an effort as your pissing in the wind comment would encourage someone to think...

and NO...I don't believe that Admin should have banned them....as much as you would have liked him to....they have an extensive catalogue of items available to members here......generally give good service....and the LWL thread served it's purpose...it brought them into line...about lying...

Out of curiousity, why would you not want them banned? It would potentially increase business for you, but also, allowing them to remain sets the rather dangerous precedent for dealers caught lying, being allowed to retain their 'recommended' status. On a forum established to protect buyers from unscrupulous dealers, that comes across as a somewhat hypocritical stance to have been taken by the powers that be.

it would never bring them into line with YOUR chosen pricing policy....!

MY chosen price policy?? Think back there, I'm not the one complaining that something I want costs X and I only want to pay Y for it. I clearly said, and another member quoted me on it, that my opinion has always been "It costs what it costs." If I don't like the price, I go elsewhere for something, I don't try and get the price reduced.

It's the same as Bearcats call to organise a 'boycott'......the truth is the members want the flash but don't wannna pay the cash...so they turn to the next best alternative...a facsimile of their heart's desire.....politicking about prices and standards....consumerism issues...etc etc...amount to nothing more than a hill of beans....and will NEVER sway the majority away from their objective....!

Absolutely so. Personally, I've nearly reached the limit of what watches I actually want. Sure, there are a few projects I'd like to do (like a vintagized Planet Ocean) and I'll probably continue to order watches for folks as gifts, but, once I've got the watches I want for my collection, I just won't need to buy anymore. That's not a case of going along with an organized boycott (which I agree, is not going to happen) it's just a case of once I have what I want, I won't be wanting anything else.

The truth of the matter is that 1x photograph from me.....or any of the dealers ....that hits somebody's hot button...will [censored] all over any expressed opinion..by you or any other member......

Depends on if that person is someone who buys watches for their collection wants to have a load they never wear, but aren't specific about what they want. As mentioned elsewhere, I collect to a pattern: Movie memorabelia. Once I have the 'movie watches' (and the few projects) I want, I highly doubt I'd buy anything else. Of course, that's not to say that there won't be some super nice watch that I decide I really want, but, if I did make that choice, it would be one I would wear, rather than one that would be a 'box filler', and it would have to be something pretty special to capture my attention enough to want it, AND fit the criteria I have for wearing a watch (primarily ease of visibility).

unless of course it's from a dealer such as Luucky who is a known scammer....!

Although as you pointed out above, people know that A&J are liars, yet still choose to take the risk of buying from them. I think that that at the core, freedom of choice, rather than enforced opinion, is the key issue I was refering to.

As for me or any other deaaler 'knowing' about the risk....I think you'll find that there are very few 'stoopid' dealers around these parts....they know the risk.....but there's a lot of 'stoopid' members who forget there's a risk.....hence the need to remind them of one of the principles reasons for high pricing....!

And as I said above, sure, there are a few who forget the risk, but they are not ones who become repeat clients. They are the 'who has the best Sub??' crowd who convince themselves that they are buying dirt-cheap discounted gens rather than copies. As I said, no-one begrudges dealers reasonable expenses which come with the nature of this illegal business. What people object to, is people who, when called out on an issue, cry "But it's an illegal business, I don't want my front door kicked in and get black-bagged* by the federales for selling illegal goods which I made an informed choice to sell" That kind of crybaby bullock faeces just pisses people off. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Applys to any job whatever it might be, from stacking supermarket shelves, selling videos, selling cars, selling insurance, rocket scientist, brain surgeon, or even designing tattoos ( ) whatever line of business someone may be in, if you don't want to do it, don't do it, do something else, just don't [censored] and moan about it when called out. (For the record, I am not saying that this is something that you personally do, just illustrating the behaviour which others have exhibited)

BTW...please don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out to CQout...it would be much better if it hit you on the head....for obvious reasons....

You make it sound like I don't have a choice, and that I am being 'punished'/missing out on something by using CQout... As I said previously, I've never had a problem with those sites which wasn't immediately and satisfactorily resolved. Shame I can't say the same about my transactions with 'recommended' dealers. Funny how even now, I still get PMs asking for the source of my watches. If they were as bad as some would make out (sure, I know they're not perfect, but they're certainly good enough for my purposes) people wouldn't be asking me about them.

I'll let you have the last word...as you no doubt will.....I've said my piece...my stance is well known......so please excuse me....

Likewise, I've said what I need to say and made the points as clear as possible. If people have a question about that, they can feel free to ask me for clarification.

I have some customers I need to go and rip off....>!

I've never accused you of ripping anyone off, so unless that is an admission of guilt, I will take it as amusing sarcasm

* Reference to how political dissidents and other undesireables were arrested in the movie V For Vendetta

I do believe that they would not have become more honest without the thread. Like I said, the thread served its purpose. The cartel realised honesty was an overlooked part of business and they shifted to market pressure.

Indeed. Time will tell if things remain thus, or if there will indeed be reports in the future of 'serviced/waterproofed' watches leaking or running dryer than what goes on after Choir Practice with Father Chester

I have also discovered that dishwashing gloves does a great job. It might seem silly but I was washing dishes and I thought to myself that man, these are damn grippy. Whalla!! I tried it, and it worked!!! Just put on the glove, and using your palm, apply light pressure and just unscrew. Once a little loosened, use your index and middle finger to unscrew completely.

And if palm pressure isn't enough, both thumbs forcing in oposite directions should be enough to open it

I've come to believe that the white lies thread served its purpose. At first I was shocked by the lack of response it got, but looking back, the dealers know we're watching and have changed their practices a little. The Cartel saw the line they shouldn't cross and, surprisingly, they haven't crossed it. Sure, they charge more (for reasons that we've been into a thousand times) but they're a lot more honest in their descriptions.

The $64,000 Question though, is would The Cartel have become more honest in their descriptions and practices had those threads not been posted...

@TJ....there's no point in continuing to debate this.....you have your POV..and I have mine....but regardless of what you say....the facts speak for themselves.....whilst you may get a good deal outside of these boards.....the consensus is that members get a better deal in here....if that weren't the case more members would be buying off board.....!

But that is entirely the point I have been trying to illustrate! It is an opinion which has evolved on the forums, and is perpetuated by them. It might well be the mass consensus, but that does not make it a fact, because the FACT is that there ARE other dealers elsewhere who are capable of providing a good product and service, rather than the impression given that ALL dealers apart from the ones 'recommended', are scammers, and that is just not true. Also, this is not a case of our opinions being different, I can totally respect that. The point I am illustrating, as above, is not a case of your opinion or my opinion, just that the 'overall forum opinion' about 'off-site' dealers, is simply misleading.

I speak from experience of trading in both arenas.....for every little white lie thread....( and I believe that A&J definitely 'lied"......but I don't believe of them that there was a malicious intent to rip-off members....their actions and history prove otherwise....there are many members here who will in fact testify to their generosity of spirit ).....

Again, I totally agree with you there. That said, on a personal level, I don't feel that such acts of generousity should be used to overlook/justify/cover up the lies that were made. As I've said before, it doesn't matter if someone lies a little, or lies a lot. A liar is a liar, and can only be trusted to lie. But that's not really the issue of this topic.

there are dozens of posts that appear on here and the other forums.... "look at this on Ebay /CQout "....posts which highlight the scams that DO take place off these boards....ignorant browsers of the auction sites fall prey to these scammers who EXIST on all these auction sites....and those sellers do scam the buyers there....for prices waay in excess of anything you'll ever see here......with little or no interaction from other auction browsers....in fact most of the alarm bells regarding these OFF FORUM scams are rung by vigilant members here who report these scams.....!

Again, no argument, of course there are going to be a few 'bad apples', but, as I mentioned previously, on those sites, if a dealer is complained about by buyers, they are removed from the site. I've seen it happen on LoudFrog (which also, as point of note, does have a community forum) and I have no doubt that it would also happen on eBay and CQout.

I do NOT see auction site buyers posting in here that such and such a seller on this board is SCAMMING the members here.....that doesn't happen..... !

I've said several times about how disatisfied I am with the service I got from Silix. I think it would be fair to say that they scammed me as I am still waiting for goods paid for nearly three months ago...

I've also pointed out the lies of A&J, as have others. And, I primarily, buy from auction sites, because in matters like this, I prefer to trust my own instincts rather than follow the flock, and, as mentioned before, my only serious issues have been when dealing with a 'recommended dealer', where any minor glitches with auction sellers, have been immediately and satisfactorily remedied. Again, only my experience, but it does rather support the opinion that the opinion "Only forum dealers are honest, off-site dealers are all scammers!" is nothing more than propoganda and rhetoric for the masses.

We have our share of scammers....the Luuckys of our world.....it's inevitable that situations such as that will happen from time to time.....but it happens less and less often nowadays...with the extra security features that Admin has put in place....and a greater degree of vigilant members...!

Absolutely, and in most cases, those scammers are immediately banned. Why Admin has not banned A&J, I will never understand, as I feel the evidence there would be more than enough to get any other newcoming dealer barred, and the way that they have lied and manipulated people, should be enough to make folks realize "Sure, they were okay in the past, but aren't as trustworthy now, and something should be done to protect forum buyers from them" Afterall, that is why forums like this exist: To protect buyers.

I'm happy that you've had a positive experience buying off board...but your positive buying experience is someone else's unhappy experience....it happens off board and on board.....difference is....when it happens onboard you're more likely to have a positive outcome.....!

As I mentioned above, nearly a 3 month wait on a jubilee bracelet and new watch dial from Silix. No communication, no parcels in the mail, nothing. If I was to email, I'm sure something would arrive within a few weeks, but I'm not prepared to chase such trivial items, and it's not my job as a buyer, to make sure that he, as a dealer, makes good on his promises. If he tells me a dial will be shipped, then I expect it shipped. If it gets confiscated by customs, (which has never happened with any of my purchases) then I would at the very least, expect an email informing me of this, and an option of either another delivery, or a refund. Now, I've had no positive outcome on that issue. What will me complaining about it on the board achieve? In terms of getting the goods sent, absolutely nothing. In terms of maybe informing people that Silix is a lying drop-shipper, it might be of use... As for unhappy experiences off-board, then it's just a case of common sense and the usual rules apply. Read the feedback, both positive and negative, evaluate the product, ask questions, and if happy, go for it. If not, look elsewhere. As long as people use those simple guidelines, they should have no reason to fall victims to the more obvious scammers who have not already been removed from the sites.

As for pricing.....that's up to the dealers and buyers......when they become too expensive..buyers won't buy....when buyers become too demanding sellers will find other outlets.....

Absolutely so. That said, if buyers demands are reasonable, and a seller is simply not prepared to be reasonable, then their moving on is no big loss.

my last word on the matter is simple......this is an illegal business....with consequences for the seller and NOT the buyer.....so if you or anyone else thinks that I'm going to reduce my prices .....minimise my profit to keep a few cheapskates happy....bringing better quality reps....with better service all round...... whilst carrying ALL of the the risk.....think again....if I'm going to jail ......I'm gonna be sitting in there saying ...'well at least I made a few bob".....not...."well I was aways fair in my pricing to board members....even tho I didn't make much money"......whilst you're gazing longingly at your Sub which you bought on Ioffer.....what VALUE do YOU place on YOUR liberty......I know what I placeon mine.....

That's absolutely fair enough, but at the end of the day, yes, this is an illegal business, but at the end of the day, that is a fact which all dealers were aware of when getting into the business, and a choice they made to accept themselves, and while there are certain aspects of it which translate into costs, that does not mean that dealers have the right to keep turning round and saying "This is an illegal business, I don't want to go to jail shipping this or that..." If that's really the opinion someone has, then don't be a dealer anymore. If someone isn't happy in their job (and this is an opinion which I apply to any job) then they should quit and get a new one. I know a few people might forget that the rep-trade is illegal, but the vast majority know and accept that, know that certain factors involve certain costs, and don't begrudge dealers those costs. What they DO begrudge, is ludicrously priced watches like the HBB, which, at the end of the day, is just a watch with a notoriously unreliable movement inside, and when this fact is mentioned, dealers turn round and say "Oh but I have all these risks to deal with!" as if that in itself is justification for the price. Sorry, but that's just a deflection tactic by triggering guilt and sympathy. Yes, there are risks, some create legitimate costs, others, ie the mechanics of the watch itself, do not, and those are the costs which people are objecting to, but getting fobbed off with a guilt-trip from someone who, at the end of the day, feels the risks are too great, could simply cut their losses and retire.

and it doesn;t even come close to..."I want the best rep with the best service....and I want it for 2 and theepence ha'penny"...........so you have 3x choices.....like it......lump it.......or p i ss of to CQout........capice......nuff sed......!

As I said above, my opinion has always been "It costs what it costs", so that's not something I object to. As for 'pi55ing off to QCout', I'd much rather do that and stick with the dealer I know I can trust, from MY OWN personal experience. Infact, the only times I do use a different dealer, is if there is a watch which my own dealer cannot acquire for me (as I did with the VCO I reviewed) If that means using a forum dealer, then that doesn't bother me, as I've been trying to say, the only thing that bothers me, is that there are a load of dealers who choose not pay to sell here, are still perfectly trustworthy and capable of delivering a product as promised, but being tarnished by the rhetoric and propoganda that any dealer other than a 'recommended dealer' is a scammer.