TeeJay

First off - as the owner of a GEN 127 - let me say: HURRAAAHHHHH!!!!

Ok - IF the 127 was actually selling for $20K - I would be very happy - even if I never plan to sell mine. But the $20K advertised price is just that - an ADVERTISED price.

These watches are realistically selling in the $14K-$16K range at this time. That's still a lot of money for a watch that has less than $300 worth of materials in it - right?

But that's the nature of luxury goods. They are NEVER worth the sum of their parts. Do you think if you buy a car that costs over $100,000 that the materials used in it are any better than a car costing $10,000? To a certain degree - YES. But not 10 times as much.

You are paying for the NAME and that's about it.

Still - $20,000 for a watch which there are less than 2,000 in the WORLD to me is a pretty good deal.

And for anyone that thinks a rep is just as good as the real thing - all I can say is - a fake is a fake is a fake. Those that can afford it understand what it's all about. Those that don't - buy copies.

I agree with everything you wrote apart from the boldened part. As you say, it's the nature of luxury goods. They are never worth the sum of their parts, but to be honest, someone doesn't need to have the budget to afford them to understand that fundemental fact. Infact, I'd go so far as to say the complete reverse, and it's the people who can afford to spank their cash on those purchases who are less likely to understand, and are simply slaves to consumerism and brand-name worship, rather than seeing the artificial inflation of those items.

Other than that difference of opinion, top post

The PAM 127, the so-called Fiddy, has apparently reached the USD 20,000 level in gen forum sales areas.

The Fidestro (as some people cheekily call the PAM 217, its lefty brother) is still around 11-12k. What a difference a crown guard side makes, eh?

There is something almost religious about that picture... Fantastic artwork

TeeJay: You got that right about Transformers and Megan Fox. Just got the DVD last night and rewatched the movie.

Well, I have to admit, shamefull as it is, I do rather enjoy Michael Bay's movies... (Especially the Bad Boys movies and The Rock) I wasn't so much impressed with the technical aspects of the film (ie the shifting angles) but as something I could just sit down, take with a pinch of salt and enjoy, I'd say it ticked all the boxes. Interesting fact, when Bumblebee 're-formats' into the new Camaro, that wasn't actually a production car, but essentially a 'kit car' (with parts provided by the parent company) and those nice rims... Not actually allow wheels, but cunningly engineered 'hub caps'. The thing that gives it away, (pause the DVD when he first pulls up and the wheel is right near the lens) is that the 'brake rotors' don't have brake calipers

I haven't really sat down and watched a movie in a while. Certainly nothing 'new'. I think the last 'new' film I watched was Transformers, and that was okay. I liked Shia Shia LeBoeuf and Megan Fox (who didn't like Megan Fox??!! ) but for me, the star of the show had to be Bumblebee. Made me want to track down an old Camaro and customize it to look like the production car (which was sold on eBay for a fortune ) The thing that bugged me most about the movie, was the rapid angle/camera shifts during the fight scenes... Almost as if they didn't want to have to focus too closely on the robots themselves... The last film I last watched which actually interested me, was Fast Food Nation. Awesome movie, and damn Avril Lavign has straight hair The last movie I actually watched, was L4yer Cake on DVD

OH! Hang on, this reminds me. The other day I was in a seedy part of Miami, waiting for my mum to come out of this shop, when I notice this Rico Suave Hispanic guy kept giving me the eye. And in fact, licking his lips at me.

All he needed was a crotch-grab.

I was reminded of John Leguizamo's standup routine in drag, where he shouted, "Take a pic-tcha! It'll last you longa!".

So I did.

You make me hot, papi!! Especially the lycra Kelly green shorts.

Ahh, gotcha. I searched all over for that thread, and couldn't find it, so thanks for remembering.

One of my guinea pigs is called Rico He's a self brown Rex, and, like the majority of Rex guineas, is a true gentle giant, and without a doubt the most loving of all my guineas

Here's a pic of him that's about a year old...

PS He was named after the Miami Vice character

No pics as yet, I've been so busy catching up on projects that my wrist aches and I'm half-baked on marker pen fumes

As for what I'm wearing though, I've got on the PVD PAM, which is best described as a 111g, on my (current) favorite strap, the honey/tan strap which came from the factory, and was most recently photographed on my 029a. Time to get some fresh air before I pass out from 'huffing solvents'

Whatever the method, PVD is durable. Your enemy are scratches, not the coating rubbing off over time.

This was what I wondered. Thanks for the clarification

I had said that I doubted I would read any of your replies but I have because, despite what some of you still seem to think (and what I

said in my initial response), I actually do care very much and I do feel very guilty. I'm human and I do have feelings and some of the

comments made were deeply hurtful even if I fully deserved them.

I have done my best to give as honest and as full an explanation of my situation and as best an apology as I could possibly give in the

circumstances. I hoped I'd made it very clear that I was not making excuses and made a point of saying that I'm not expecting any

sympathy or apologies, all I had wished for was a little more understanding and perhaps a little more acknowledgement of the

positive contribution I made here, and at the old RWG, which I'm sure that most, if not all, of you benefited from at some time. Some of

the earlier projects I was involved with were very successful and I did countless re-lumes and other small mods that were equally

successful - many more successes than failures overall and I'm still saddened that some of you still seem to completely overlook that.

That said there are several of you who have offered me some support and I'm deeply grateful to you.

However I realise that an apology alone is not enough, deeds not words, and I have replied to all the emails I have received so far

(actually surprisingly few) and have offered to make the appropriate amends to those individuals.

Some of you have asked some questions or made further comments that I would like to reply to.

I love watches and always have since my early 20's. As I already mentioned I signed up to Risti at about the same time I

joined the old RWG and have always answered the odd post here or there and bought and sold the odd strap from time to time as well,

although always with a little caution because of owning reps, so I wasn't doing anything that I had not already been doing and

really didn't think anything of it. I suppose all that changed more recently was that I didn't feel quite the same need to be as cautious

as before. It really didn't occur to me that I risked being "outed" because I was completely oblivious to the level of ill feelings

mounting up against me here since my absence. If I had been worried or really wanted to re-invent myself (as some have suggested) then surely I would have re-registered with a completely new identity.

Yes I did go to a GTG (if it could be called that). In response to the post about the fake market an Aussie risti emailed me to ask something. In the subsequent exchange of emails that afternoon he told me that he was actually in London on business and was going to

a meet that same evening (I had no prior knowledge of this) although it was short notice would I like to come. Normally I would have declined because of my being a rep owner (I didn't have the gen at that time) and told him so but he said that did not matter to him and not to worry about it. Because I rarely go out these days other than the very occasional drink with colleagues, and because actually I'm very bloody lonely here by myself and because it was only a 10 minute journey from my work I decided to go. There were 4 present inc me, 2 were from Aus (one is actually a mate of DW) and 1 from UK. None were at all judgemental about the rep I had with me - in fact they were very impressed by it. They were extremely nice people and it was a pleasure to meet them. I don't have the slightest regret about going.

There is one thing though that I want to make expressly clear as there still seems to be doubts about it. I have given up watch work

specifically because my eyesight has recently deteriorated quite significantly because of wearing loupes in my day job. Loupes do this

because they weaken the already weak muscles that cause my close vision to be affected. This does not mean I'm going blind but it does

mean I cannot focus on anything close up (I'm actually long sighted) and the nature of my work means I have to be able to do this. It's

a catch 22 situation - the more I wear the loupes the more my eyes will suffer - but the catch is that I can't do my job without them.

My day job is my living and my eyes/hands are my job. When you get to my age things start to go downhill more rapidly and I need to retain my eyesight for as long as possible so that I can still hopefully have a job until I reach retirement. So stopping the watch work was the only answer.

There is one other reason which relates directly to the question about my doing work for Risti's instead of sending it to an AD. One of

the major risks with doing work on someone else's watch is what if something goes wrong (part of the reason we are here). It's very very easy to scratch something or cause some minor damage no matter how careful you are. Sometimes it's possible to get a spare part from Angus or someone and make good the damage to a rep but imagine this happens to a genuine watch worth several $$$$ - I can't call Panerai and ask for a new dial or new set of hands. I'm not a professional watchsmith and have never professed to being one and don't have any insurance against such an event either. If Panerai damage something in service (as they certainly have done) they can just go to a drawer and get a new one.

So no, I have absolutely no intention, and have never even contemplated it, of ever doing any work on any genuine watch ever and the very suggestion of it is frankly preposterous. I have given it up for good (and that goes for reps too).

Finally - just for your amusement and something of an irony - in Sept 2006, on the recommendation of a dual member RWG'er, I paid $1800 to a well known, but then unbeknown to me, Risti who is supposed to be making a few 1:1 "homage" pieces. I still have nothing to show for it and no progress reports unless I pester him. Make of that what you will.

As I said before in my previous response to you, my opinion came from information others had presented (which did include mention of your deterioration in vision (but which, under such circumstances, can sound like a way of gaining sympathy to deflect criticism rather than a genuine affliction. I am not saying that you are lying about the condition, merely pointing out how it can be perceived by those of less than generous natures) ) and if that opinion is incorrect, then I again apologize for that misconception. The is, however, one question I would like to ask:

If you realized that you were unable to complete 'the projects' as asked, (whatever they may have been) why did you not immediately return people's money or parts, rather than leave things for months?

Can you see how people could get the impression that it was their 'missing money' which paid for your gen PAM rather than the money from your own private sales? This is not intended as a criticism, just an attempt to illustrate the sentiments behind the message to hopefully facilitate a better mediation of issues, rather than focussing on the message itself. Best regards.

Completely understandable. As you have stated, both here and on the other topic people have had bad dealings, and therefore it would affect the community as a whole, therefore they don't deserve to be part of it (in a nutshell) One point I would like to put across here (and in fact I agree with most of your points on the other topic, which we shall not delve into, blimey that would be a can of worms haha) is that I feel that in this case there are genuine mitigating factors that affected the charateristics of Mark. He wasn't thinking straight. Now obviously the acts were done, and therefore the bad circumstances that Mark found himself in are mitigating factors, and it doesn't take away the fact that people lost out, but I would personally draw a clear line between people who have an intent to scam (as there was suggested in the dare I say it 'cartel threads') and the situation here, where things got out of hand, and the wrong action was taken, and a few people lost out. I cannot, and will not speak on the behalf of Mark, but I am certain he will fix things as best he can. This should not be construed as an act to win back any titles, but it should be construed as evidence he is genuine, and he is trying to make amends where appropriate.

I quite agree, there is the difference between someone who intends to mislead and scam, and someone who's circumstances have conspired against them to make it harder for them to keep their word. As I mentioned previously on the issue of subscriptions, had I not been given 'a rubber cheque' by someone I did work for, I would have made the contributions I promised. However, without that sum, I'm in the position of making up the sum and having to meet essential needs first. My holiday, for example, had I waited till the last minute to pay for, I wouldn't've been able to go, but, as it was fortunately pre-paid, I went, didn't have much cash beyond daily food requirements, and made the best of things, but, to get back on track, if someone has someone's money, and access to the net, they can return it almost immediately. If someone has parts for a person, but can't modify them as promised, then for the cost of postage and packing, that also can be returned almost immediately, and in those instances, there really is no excuse for delays, and at the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, I suspect at the heart of the issue, it is the delays which people are most concerned about. Had they received communications, refunds, returns etc, I am sure they would have had the utmost understanding. The other aspect which can chafe, are the comments Mark made like "I was up till 2-3 in the morning and then had to work an 8 hour day..." Those are the kind of things people have little patience for, as, at the end of the day, everyone knows the circumstances/sacrifices/hardships involved 'with what they do', and they still willinging continue to do them regardless of those factors. I once read a book by an artist I greatly admire, who detailed the necessity for professionalism in one's work. He had a deadline on a project the following morning, and had just about completed the piece, when his airbrush 'hiccupped' and spat gobs of paint onto a key area of the piece. His only option was to spend the rest of the night re-working the piece to repair the damage so he could hand it in on the deadline, and of course, it would have been unprofessional to tell the editor it had taken him all night to correct the unavoidable error, and of course, the editor's only comment was an unknowing "Nice airbrush work..." That's the kind of standard which any self-employed person should hold themself to.

I'd best be off as it's been a long day of travelling, and my week ahead promisses little but playing 'catch up' on my projects.... Peace out folks

Dear all. Teejay I am not singling out your post here, just the l;ast one, and a an appropriate one to reply to, as a general one to reply to them all.

Firstly, in September of 2006, I sent a watch to Mark. Communication suffered, I didnt see my watch again for a period of many months. So like many of you, I was suspicious. However, I like to think that I am a good judge of character, and when we did speak during that time period, although few and far between at times, Mark was honest with me, I have no questions about it. He genuinely was going throuigh a bad patch. I am not going to analyse what should have been done, what did happen, we can all draw conclusions, and Mark himself has replied with his reasons. I say, take them or leave them,l I will however say they are genuine reasons (Im not saying it makes everything alright, but they are genuine)

Secondly, I am in no way affiliated with Mark. I am a friend of his, and got to know him through the board, over the phone, and met with him once face to face. I haven't got any monetary interest (meaning that I dont have a reason for putting a good word forward other than what I sincerely feel), I am doing so because I know he is genuine. Some might say a Leopard doesn't change his spots. But what spots are we attributing to Mark. Are we saying because of the past year, some people had bad dealings, and therefore he is an untrustworthy person. Or should we look, in reflection, at the fabulous work he had done over the years previously to this.

Thirdly, risti's are anal (stereotypically) do you think they would even consider cutting costs to send it to a third party, when they can send it to an AD and have the quality Panerai technicians do it? I believe Mark is on that board to help people out. To spot reps. We do it here, in our own scam and auction section. We are speculating too much on things that just won't happen. Fair enough, beware of Mark if you believe he is a scammer, but I want you to know, I dont suffer fools gladly, and Mark is no scammer. If he was he wouldn't be back here today. By his own submission, some mistakes were made. Bad patch in his life = bad dealings which he has shown remorse for. This isn't the attitude of a scammer. Far from it.

Fourthly, I want you to read this as my view and my view only. I cannot delve into Marks mind, because if I could do that, I wouldn't be training to be a lawyer, I would be making millions telling fortunes to people, but I have given an account of how I see things.

Fifthly, please don't dissect my post and repsond to it in this way. It is merely a post that is for you all, and is meant to be used as a piece to put in the jigsaw. For some it will mean nothing at all, you have views set in stone. For others ewho didn't deal with Mark, and are forming judgements based n the 'bad press', here is something for you to consider. It is my account of my dealings with Mark, and my account of how I value him as a friend.

Best Wishes to you all.

b16a2

I totally appreciate that you weren't replying to my post directly, simply using the last available post, and I do appreciate your request not to dissect your post, but there are two points which I feel obliged to point out.

Firstly, no matter how anal a person is about something, if they can something (or something done) as good as 'the real thing' for cheaper (ie non-official technicians) then human nature would be to go with the cheapest option. Why pay a high price to Mr X, when Mr Y can do the exact same job for a fraction of the price? Paying the higher price has nothing but the prestige of spending money, and that was why I pointed out (at Mark's request) what I thought he would possibly do on Risti.

and Secondly, as admirable as it is for you to defend your friend, this is very much the same issue (at it's core) as has been discussed over issues like The Cartel, and one where, in that instance, people were prepared to look beyond their own good dealings with someone, if there was the chance that the person was dealing less honestly with others, as that was something that affected the overall community, not just them, and they disaproved of. So a similar stance would be appropriate here. As I said, I totally appreciate and respect the points you made, but I felt compelled to adress those specific issues as they are very much at the heart of the overall issue. Had Mark not responded to my post, I would not have posted anything further as I was simply pointing out an opinion which had been formed from other's comments, and as I said above to Mark, if I misjudged him, then I have apologized for doing so, and tried to explain why I may have done so.

Indeed, best regards to all.

What exactly are my old games

From the comments others have posted, your 'old games' would appear to consist of offering goods/services for money and then either a ) not providing them, or b ) providing them at either a ludicrously advanced date (ie months later) or goods which have not met the buyer's expectations. As someone else said about you. Have they been ripped off. Technically, no, morally, yes. Don't try and use forum rules intended to prevent flame wars to make yourself look like a victim when one of your former clients loses their patience/temper, and berates you in a less than polite manner. If you've done something wrong, then rather than ignoring the problem or using your personal circumstances as an excuse, just be a man and admit to it. If you had problems 6-9 months ago, then fair enough, we all go through tough times, but, rather than keeping the people's money and goods, you should have returned them to them immediately, not this far down the line.

what do you think I will do "Over there" - do you think Risti's will be sending me their watches

for a re-lume!! Really - be serious.

Oh, so they wouldn't consider sending you a watch to have it serviced for considerably less than an AD would charge? Just because the cosmetic modifications that some engage in to try and pass their reps off as gens would not apply on that forum, there would still be services which you could charge people money for, and simply not provide. Is that serious enough for you?

Far from re-inventing myself I have never made a secret of who I am and my login name is the same here as there.

You may be using the same name, and, as much as I thought your post gave a very valid and fascinating insight into the Rep World, it still came across as "I used to do that, but not anymore..." That comes across as re-invention, plain and simple, and, when it happens at a time when there are people who, shall we say, do not hold you in the highest esteem, it comes across as rather sleazy and self-serving.

We've never had any dealings, so admitedly, I can only go by what others have said about you, so if my assessment of you is inaccurate, then my apologies, however, I do not take kindly to people who abuse the trust of others (in whatever circumstances those abuses may occur in), and do not take kindly to such people affecting a larger community of people. Money doesn't grow on trees, people have to work for it. Some have to work harder than others, some have more than others, but at the end of the day, everyone here who buys something, be it a product or a service, had to earn that money, and no-one deserves to be either intentionally ripped off, or to experience delays in refunds or compensations.

Of course, in England it's considered rude to point out anything personal about a person: watch, haircut, tattoo. Trust me to be rebellious about this...

This is so true. People might make a comment on such things to friends or family (and even then, that's pushing it ) but to do so to a stranger is almost unheard of. Closest I can think of, is when a lady asked my fiance where she'd gotten her glasses from. I've noticed someone eyeballing my 111h on a bus before, and when I adjusted it back to British time on the plane, the guy next to me gave it a sideways glance, but still never said anything. If he had, I'd've explained that it was a replica of a watch worn by Italian frogmen from WWII, but it was a conversation that never came up. Infact, the only time I can think of someone commenting on my watch, was a friend who I showed my Planet Ocean to, explaining that it was a rep, but he actually recognized the brand, which was rather cool. I have to admit, something I do like about the PAMs is how to the uninitiated, they either go under the radar, or are just dismissed as 'large watches', rather than being truly questioned

Hmm hour hand catching on the seconds hand then TJ??

Possibly, but there doesn't appear to be an issue of clearance, so I suspect that the jam is occuring internally in the movement itself rather than the hands clearing... However, now I'm back, I'll be taking the watch for inspection by the proprietor of the store where it was 'repaired', so hopefully either get it taken care of gratis, or the funds for the 'service' refunded, which will then be used to purchase a replacement (which my dealer offered to supply at half price )

Thanks for your (as ever) understanding, TeeJay! I read about the PVD PAM up top, wow! Not too sure brown straps would look best. I'll throw in a nice tan for it, unless you have one already. Would help enormously if you could take a shot of the straps you have now.

As for the underwater shot, I am in awe. Check out the History of Underwater watches (a thread I started after you left) for a personal reason why.

Either way, I can't wait! Be they underwater, or just regular.

P.S.: Hey, anyone have underwater shots of their watches? Maybe one of you can start a thread??

No problem at all

I have to admit, from what I've seen of other's wrist checks, PVDs on browns do definitely seem to be a love it/hate it combination. It came on a rubber strap (with a leather strap keeper ) but that soon came off in favor of a leather strap (The watch actually accepted the SS Bracelet without issue, but didn't look too good on the shiny bracelet ) At present, the only straps I can wear it on (as I need to order some 24mm buckles) are the factory strap you saw the 029 on, and it's black counterpart. My preference, is for the honey/tan factory strap over the black, although Emily said she prefered the black... I have a hunch that Me So Horny will be this watch's regular strap as it'll likely be a shade or two paler than the honey/tan without going into the washed out/bleached spectrum...

Once I get access to a camera, I'll try and get some decent pics, and I hope the underwater shot worked out, as I think it'll look quite good. I did consider taking a wrist-shot in the shower once, but decided against it I'll be sure to check out the thread, I'm sure I'll find it very interesting, as I do have an interest in the kinds of watches Naval divers use/d

Interesting side note, while away, I looked in a few expensive-looking jewellery boutiques, (in Puerto de Mazerron) and one watch which rather took my eye, was a PVD'd Nautica with a black dial with copper-accents, and a cream-colored version of the honey/tan factory strap I wasn't able to go into the boutique, but, I did get the feeling that if the strap had been the right width, I'd've bought the watch just to get the strap for the PVD PAM :

You need to find out what process was used. DLC is the most durable by far, then Ti AlN, then TiN. The agressiveness of the bead blasting also influences durability. The interesting thing I've learned recently is that the type of PVD process used is not nearly as important aesthetically as it once was. These days a specific look can be achieved by a number of different PVD processes, so I guess it's possible to have durability and an accurate color at the same time if you ever decide to refinish the watch.

Ahh, now that's something I didn't know about, thanks for that I'll try asking my dealer if he knows what kind of process was used, but I'm not sure if he'd know... I'm rather liking the different look the PVD gives the watch, and, as it was (albeit delayed) a birthday present from my fiance, it's in my best interests if it gets a lot of wrist time I just wondered what kind of durablity I could maybe expect from other's experiences, or if it's a watch which will soon have some bright 'highlights'

@TEEJAY: WELCOME BACK!! I see you reading the thread. Answer: not yet. Got a cold! More later!

Thanks, Vic I would say it's good to be back (and indeed, it is good to be able to read the forum), but truth be told, I didn't want to leave Spain at all. Never been before in my life, never knew more than a few words of Spanish, but, within two days, I'd picked up enough to order food without embarassing myself (I've always been a good mimic with linguistics) although my range is still somewhat rudimentary, totally loved the laid back way of life, and was overjoyed with the ludicrously cheap prices on goods It was possible there to buy a reasonable pair of shoes there for four Euros! Okay, so Spanish wages might not be much, but by comparison, an hour's work in the UK at minimum wage will not allow someone to buy a reasonable pair of shoes (unless they are the last ever pair in the bargain bin in a closing down sale ) so it goes without saying, that I'll be looking forward to moving to Spain in the hopefully not to distant future.

Not to worry about any delays, health must come first

A hint of things to come... Emily's stepdad used his camcorder to try and get a shot of my 111h underwater, but I've not yet seen the footage, so not too sure how the footage will look or if it will be suitable for a screen shot. Also, when I can get a camera and a free moment (might not be for a week as I've got a load of work to catch up on ) I'll be posting some pics of my PVD'd PAM

I've been unable to find anything really concrete on this subject, so forgive me if it's a repost.

Having just received a PVD'd PAM, I was wondering what kind of durability the coating has. I've read that Panerai only issued a limited edition PVD on the understanding that folks wouldn't be wearing them regularly, and wondered how that applied to reps. Are these indeed watches which will scratch and scuff up at the mere suggestion of being worn, or, are they durable enough to withstand general everyday wear, or even somewhere inbetween? I'll be interested to get folk's opinions and experiences Thanks in advance

The vacation shots are still being downloaded, so nothing fresh immediately. However, a little news: I spent the week wearing my PAM 111h, with the caseback from the 029a, and the SS bracelet. The watch stopped every 12 hours at precicely 08:04:24, but other than that, ran flawlessly. Even when splashing about in the Med That's right, I swam with this sickly and cobbled together watch against tides and it never even thought about leaking

When I got home, I found a rather nice PVD PAM waiting for me (my delayed birthday present exchange for the faulty 127)

Once the camera's sorted out, I'll post some shots of it

Hope folks had a good week

HEY! Admin will be wanting a word, POTR.

My dad and boyfriend call me Vicky. My mother and all my friends, Victoria. My cousins...well, actually yes. When I was growing up they called me "Vee".

This sucked because when I was a kid, there was this television series called "V" about lizard extra-terrestrials. A big hit. Unfortunately, I didn't like the inference I was a green scaly, evil creature with forked tongue.

That doesn't resemble me at all.

I have a cousin called Vikki who is always called Vikki, but always writes her name Victoria (the same cousin doomed to wear quartz watches for the rest of her natural )

The only time I use/write the full form of my name, is on Ultra Official documentation. Anything else, even employment contracts, I just used the shortened version

Yes that 111h on SS is hot. After your holiday kindly send it to me overnight at your expense and I'll wear it about. It's the least I can do for a friend!

Seriously though, have a safe trip and be safe.

Well, a second opinion on the regulation is always welcome

Thanks, I'm sure all will be well.

Interesting note, the watch stopped almost precicely the same length of time as it did when I first got it to run for more than a few hours. Eight hours, and a few minutes. That seems too precice to be coincidence. I managed to get one wind onto crown, and it then ran for about 5-10 minutes, so, I removed the back (thanks to non-slip matting) and used a cocktail stick to allow the spring to completely unwind (as per instructions given to V earlier) and then completely re-wound it. Time will tell how soon it stops this time Just to be on the safe side, I've thrown my 2531.80 in my strap case should it fail completely

True enough. Its immediate advantages are more psychological, perhaps. BST always meant for me that we had sun until at least 9/10 PM -- always a plus for lazy village cricket matches.

That conjures up images from The Man Who Made Husband's Jealous (novel, not dramatisation, of course)

Upon investigation, the rubber gloves I needed for removing the caseback appear to have been thrown out, and I have no intention of pawing through the garbage like a starving racoon just to swap a caseback Ultimate result, a choice governed entirely by chance and circumstance, is that I wear the 111h on SS, and then swap to leather straps for more formal situations

Thanks for the advice and reading

If I hadn't been so encumbered and sickly, you would've had that divers' strap. Sorry, TeeJay.

Not a problem, and absolutely nothing to apologise for

Tricky situation.

Both are or were a bit wonky mechanically. The PAM 029 is gorgeous, but lacks an SS bracelet for the swimming. The PAM 111 is more reliable and versatile, but isn't as dashing as the 029.

Ooh toughie. PAM 111h. Go for the practical, and anyway, it's STILL an extremely good-looking combo.

This was pretty much my thinking too. One part of me is saying, had I not gone into the jeweller's today, I'd've worn the 029 (but, with the 'stall' taken into account, I might have just worn my Planet Ocean instead...) However, I think the 029 has the potential to a more catastrophic failure should it 'stall' again, where the 111h I can just keep winding. (and of course, I can wear the 111h on the leather strap (my preference) for smarter occasions like restaurant visits...)

Me personally....If I were going to Spain I wouldnt spend much time hanging around the swimming pool....I would be taking advantage of my time there and be absorbing as much of Spain as possible....how much swimming are you gonna be doing anyway seriously???? Just wear the 029 and bring a cheap back up watch in case you have issues with the movement

I have to admit, I wasn't planning on doing too much swimming, but, I didn't want to have to worry about getting a leather strap wet, so felt the SS was the best option. That's a good idea about the backup. Seeing as I really wanted to use the GMT feature, I might well do that (or take the 111h with it's taped up back as well, so I can continue to monitor it's performance) Thanks for the advice

Both have plusses and minuses, and I really can't decide

The problem is that both are having to 'share' a caseback, so it's a case of one or the other...

The 111h has been running strangely since I had the movement cleaned, but, always starts when wound, and has (touch wood) been running smoothly since I reclaimed it from the jeweller's this morning. The 111h can also accept the SS bracelet I bought specifically for this vacation so I could wear it while swimming.

The 029 has quickly established itself as a nice watch, but, it can't accept the SS bracelet. It ran smoothly for two days, but 'stalled' this morning. Neither winding nor shaking would start it, but, when I removed the back to test fit it on the 111h, I stroked the balance wheel with the strap screwdriver, and it started at once, and has been running smoothly ever since.

Now, before I got the 111h back, I was rather looking forward to using the GMT function while in Spain, but, I'm more concerned that should the 029 stop, too much tinkering near the balance wheel will completely [censored] up the movement, where all the 111h requires, is more winding, so potentially less maintenance and less chance of me accidentally damaging something...

Aesthetically, I like both watches, and prefer different things about each, although my fiance said that she prefers how the 029 looks.

So, any suggestions??

TIA

Sorry for the old shot, but this is what I'm wearing

I went into the jewellers today and asked for my watch back as I wanted to see if the 029 caseback would fit.

It did.

The watch has been running for 3.5 hours without problem, so fingers crossed, it might be wearable on my trip to Spain, which means I can actually get use of the SS Bracelet I bought specifically so I could swim with the watch on

Really wierd occurence, the 029 'stalled' this morning before I went into town. Shaking it did nothing, nor did hand-winding the stem, so I removed the caseback, went into town, and put it out of my mind (although I was pretty [censored] that I wouldn't have a PAM to wear) When I got home, I tried the caseback on the 111h, and it screwed on no trouble. Only slight glitch, is, as the caseback is slightly more shaped, it's pulling the bracelet in a little bit tighter than normal. Back to the 029. It still wasn't responding to shaking (although the rotor was spinning cleanly), nor hand-winding (which felt like it was ratcheting as normal) so out of curiousity, I touched the balance wheel with the screwdriver I use to swap my PAM bracelet/straps about, and, it started working. It has also been running soundly for the past few hours, so now, I'm waiting to see which (if either) craps out first (I have to admit, my suspicions are on the 111h) but, assuming they're both okay by the time I leave tomorrow, I have to decide which to take... The 029, which I can't fit the SS bracelet to for swimming, but does have the GMT function for tracking 'home time', or, the 111h, which accepts all the bracelets and straps, but will require re-setting on the plane. Decisions decisions