TeeJay

I've got mine to +0.5 over 24 hours, but this has taken at least 24 hours of constant observation and correction, which, without proper timing equipment, can get frustrating

In the past I've removed cyclopses from a few watches, because aesthetically, I don't like how they break the line of the crystal (where Panerai cyclops' are on the inside of the crystal...) I've not had an issue with the date looking too small without one. Would I remove the cyclops in the future? Depends on the watch and how close to the original I wanted it to be. If I had another GMT, then I would probably remove it. On my planned project for a 16800, I'll probably leave it on, just to keep it closer to the original. As for removal, just a matter of de-casing the movement and dial assembly, popping out the crystal from behind, and then using a cigar lighter to heat the glue and you'll be able to push it off with a knife edge. Don't heat the cyclops for long durations (just a few seconds at a time) and don't heat the cyclops while the crystal is still installed (unless you are willing to run the risk of the crystal expanding in the case and then cracking itself from the pressure...) but it really is a simple procedure to perform

I bought it from Maria back in the day.

It's a very nice watch - and MUCH nicer now.

Bill

If you ever feel the need to part with another DRSD (and I can sell a kidney to pay for it ) please let me know

It seems to me that there are 2 groups of people in the world - those who take watches too seriously & everyone else.

While the former, having just been willed dead uncle Wilfred's DRSD (also DOA), would do whatever it takes to get the timepiece running again, the latter group, I believe, upon hearing the costs Rolex charges to revive it, would either eagerly post the money-maker on ebay or, if sentiment trumps greed, toss it (ever so lovingly) into the bottom of a safe/drawer/cupboard & live with the knowledge that uncle Willie's ticker -- the 1 that remains above ground -- is well taken care of.

Restoring vintage/collectible watches, as is the case with vintage/collectible cars, has always & will always be exceptionally expensive. This I know having spent several years restoring vintage/collectible cars &, now, (mainly Rolex) watches. But, when I began this thread, I was thinking more of the average, modern Rolex & the increasingly prohibitive costs Rolex levies against the average Rolex owner for regular maintenance. In previous years, an owner always had the option of taking his/her Rolex to an independent, Rolex-trained watchmaker, who, while perhaps not within the official Rolex service network, was still able to access it for parts. Sadly, with Rolex's recent clamping down on these independents, that option no longer exists. Or, at least, the door of opportunity will close as each watchmaker's parts supply runs out. Imagine having to sell your 5 year-old Datejust or GMT because the AD never made it clear that Rolex recommends (& requires, if you want them to honor the warranty) overhauls (that only Rolex can perform) every 5-7 years, the cost of which may soon exceed the purchase price of the watch. Even for Rolex, which has often been known to try to squeeze every last cent out of their customers over the years, that is pretty poor.

I think this is where our opinions on restoration varies slightly, in so much as I can certainly understand and appreciate the desire to restore something with NOS parts, but, I can also understand that such NOS can be prohibitively expensive, and someone in the hypothetical situation above (rather than someone who knowingly purchases a high-maintenance product) might feel that aftermarkets parts 'are good enough', even if they're not NOS, to keep the watch (or car) functional. Afterall, what's the point of a watch if not to tell the time? (that is of course, assuming they want to actually wear the watch, rather than just keeping it in the drawer as a keepsake) With regards the second point though, yes, that kind of price-gouging tactics on the part of Rolex (and other companies) is unnecessary, and totally lowers my opinion of the company, and that is why I would never buy a gen even if I could afford it: I simply would not want to give the company my money. I appreciate the watches, not the company itself, so reps provide that happy medium for me of the look I like, at a price I can (occasionally) afford, and without supporting a greedy multi-national company. I think it's quite funny how there're Sub and SD reps available for around the $200-$300 range, which is pretty much what the original watches would have cost back in the 60s and 70s

An old pic but here're my summer colors

Thanks Tee Jay,

You would'n by chance no anyone (or yourself) who can do this for me (with payment of course)? I am located in Holland.

I need a quick turnaround.

You're very welcome, and I'm sorry, I can't recommend anyone I would offer to do it myself, but a ) I don't have the spare cash to be able to replace anything should the worst happen (playing with watches can go wrong...) and b ) Even though I'm in the UK, the shipping times alone would probably put this outside your requirement for the 20th... Your best bet might be to try and see if a local watchsmith can do it for you to avoid the delays on shipping

I am not handy at all so I will make the watchmaker do it. How long do you think it would take him and what would he possibly charge me? With what do I remove the excess enamel?

Thanks

Maybe 10-15 minutes to strip the watch, 5 minutes to paint the insert and wipe away the excess paint, and another 10-15 minutes to rebuild the watch, you're not really looking at more than 45 minutes work, but as to what you might be charged for that, I wouldn't like to say... Some tattoo artists charge £50 an hour, some charge £80 per hour, some charge +£100 per hour... You can always ask the watchsmith for an estimate on the price before work begins. The other thing to bear in mind, is that although the work might not take an hour to do, the watchsmith might have a considerable waiting list, so you might not get the watch back immediately... If I was to be doing the work, as above, I would just paint over the existing letters, then wipe the excess enamel away with the edge of a piece of kitchen towel or t-shirt, but all artists have their own preferences and methods

Love this line!

Deep down, I do agree, and TJ's quote below mirrors my feelings. I spent a lot of time in automotive hobbies and racing, and seeing the consumer protection that does exist in that arena makes me happy -vs- what is going on with the likes of Rolex, Apple, and Sony. The modern world is creating serious ownership and property rights issues. (I love the watch repair story where ?Breguet? kept a solid gold rotor as part of service - who owned that gold?). Can Apple or Sony "Brick" my property because I installed something they do not approve of? (Yes, because I have no choice but to accept their 60 page TOS, without objections.)

+1

I just think that the distinction needs to be drawn between aftermarket customization for shits and giggles, and someone needing to maybe install an aftermarket part to restore function, when their wallet can't stretch to Official Channels, as it's a big difference as to what is done and why I'd hope that even the most devout gen collector on TZ would appreciate putting an aftermarket movement/part into a DRSD (as described in my hypothetical scenario) as a necessary measure to keep the watch running, rather than have it turn into a non-runner

We appear to have come full-circle as this was exactly my original point.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how the scenario plays out among gen collectors when those supplies do dry up I just think the distinction needs to be addressed between necessary repairs and servicing, and modifications as aftermarket customization, as it really does shift 'the values' under discussion Someone who is going to modify for customization is likely not worried about re-sale value (or would be selling in a specialized market where the customizations could increase the car's value) where the person in possession of a watch they can't afford (as per my hypothetical scenario) to maintain via the RSC, is likely to still consider their 'outside repaired' watch as 'the real thing', and probably not ever likely to consider selling the watch, so their concern would not be of maintaining the warranty or value, but instead keeping the watch running at all costs

I spoke to BK already and he told me that it is just a matter of enamel filling in the engraved part. I will go to my watchmaker on Tuesday and explain the process to him. I will ask him to redo all the wording so that it would look the same. Does anyone know what enamel paint to use, glossy or not? And what has to be used to clean the excess enamel paint?

Thanks

If you have the ability to decase the movement, I'd suggest buying the paint and doing it yourself to save the watchmaker's fee... Personally speaking, I would go with matte black enamel paint. If you go to a model store, you should be able to get a small pot of paint (probably Revell brand) for under 5 Euros. Cleaning the excess enamel would just be a matter of using the appropriate paint thinner, but it would be easier to simply paint over the top of the ring (filling all letters at the same time) and then just wiping the excess away with a piece of cloth

Hi Bill,

I really appreciate your gesture. The problem is that I live in Holland. I did not rush BK. I had order in the begining of May and he he shipped it out one month later. He just sent me a pm and offered me a refund. I really appreciate that also but I really like the watch a lot and would just like to get the issue fixed. I was wondering if Domenico could fix this. I saw a video on this forum on how it is being done with the black enamel etc. and was hoping to find someone in the EU who could do this for me.

Thanks again Bill.

Dennis

Even though I have handled the gen DSSD, this is an aspect I am unfamiliar with... Is the lettering on the inner case ring engraved and enamel-filled, or has the paint simply been applied to the watch in some kind of printing process? In the picture, the letter looks like an F... Is there proper engraving to actually make an E if it was fully painted? If there is the 'bottom line of the E' engraved, then it would simply be a matter of de-casing the movement and stripping the watch, then applying some enamel paint to fill the engraving... As above, I stand by my point that it is unacceptable for a watch to be sent to the client thus, but best of luck with a resolution

There is a very big difference, as I see it, between modified Porsches or Mercedes cars & modified Rolexes - Porsche & Mercedes copies are rare (I have never actually seen a Porsche or Mercedes copy in the real world) while Rolex copies are ubiquitous, outnumbering gens & by a vast margin.

To be clear, I would love to still be able to buy Rolex parts over-the-counter as I did back in the 80s. But I can also see that Rolex had to do something to stem the hemorrhaging of gen parts into the black market, especially in the Internet age where everything is just a click away. I think it was fair & reasonable to leave control of (localized) parts distribution up to the individual members within the Rolex service network.

I see the point you're making with regards there being less copies of the cars, compared to the more frequent copies of watches, but that's not really the main issue under discussion re: 100% pure factory stock, and aftermarket modification/replacement parts... The point is that a car which has been fitted with after-market parts, while probably no longer under warranty, so won't get repaired by the inhouse garages, is still viewed as per brandname (with re-sale value rising or falling depending on mods performed and the market it's sold in) I can also quite see the point you make about Rolex wanting to stem the flow of proprietary materials out of their control. But. As before, sometimes people modify cars for a hobby with no thought of re-sale value, and while someone is unlikely to want to install aftermarket parts on a Rolex just for the fun of it (even I'm not that twisted) maybe someone is in the position of not being able to afford the service charge... Suppose for the sake of argument that my dead uncle John was an industrial diver for Comex, and leaves his DRSD to me in his will. I am now the owner of a $50'000 watch (is that the right price?) What if my aunt left the watch in a drawer for years and the movement needs servicing? I can't afford to take the watch to the AD to be fixed, so instead, I take it to the highstreet watchsmith who works some magic, and restores the watch to functional status. The watch would now be considered by many to be a bastardized franken, and Rolex themselves would consider it no longer under warranty and decline to service it, but it would still be my uncle's Rolex... As mentioned before, when the availability of parts dries up, people are going to have to make that decision between functional franken, or dead gen...

Hmmm... The 0 wouldn't bother me, but the 'Gas Fscape' is unacceptable.

That crapola makes me feel like Robin Hood.

An extensive collection of reps, contacts that can service them, and I ain't gotta be saying, "Thank you Sir, may I have another."

Besides which, if anyone went out and bought gens like my reps, they should have bought a really nice house instead!

This modded H Factory Luminor Submersible on my wrist is PERFECT . . . when you can buy the perfect rep for this kind of money, you know what the manufacturer's actual cost must be.

None of that for me - ever.

Bill

My thoughts exactly

The saddest part about this is that with Rolex tightening restrictions on the parts supply, independent watchmakers, many of whom were Rolex-trained & who do not have the luxury of spending hours/days/weeks trolling ebay, are no longer functionally able to repair a Rolex watch. This, increasingly, leaves the average gen owner with no other option than to bend over & repeat that famous line from Animal House - 'Thank you, Sir. May I have another?'

I looked up the word 'monopoly' in the dictionary & it said 'Take it to your local RSC'.

Exactly to the point of the craziness by both Rolex Corporate and (some) of thier fanatics.

Is my vintage Doxa no longer a Doxa or 'real' because it has an aftermarket crown and bracelet? Is a Porsche no longer a Porsche because you changed the turbo, exhaust, chip, cam, wheels?

I can think of no other consumer goods that go to such extremes. Although, Apple products are getting close.

As discussed some months ago, there is another option (future inevitability, as parts become less and less available) and that will be having no other option but to install aftermarket parts, thus turning a gen into a franken. I nearly used the term 'reducing' rather than 'turning', but did not simply because of the rationale Ronin mentioned with cars. Sure, aftermarket parts might mean Item X commands a lower price than the unmodified Item Y, but, it is still 'a real Rolex/Porsche'. And of course, if the owner of said item has no plans for resale, then the sale value becomes a somewhat moot point, imho I'd rather wear a functional franken, than have a totally gen paperweight

My philosophy is, if I don't have to spend the money, I won't. The Rose Sub dial is nice, and no issues with date. I think I will be using what I have for now and wait patiently for a nice Rose Dial. The Silix case does not look bad and without the actual measurements from an original case it will be hard to guess. I know the dial on the silix can be as small as 28mm, hopefully that is all I need.

E

I'm down with that philosophy, I can't abide spending money if I can do the job myself I just found this Rose dial on eBay, but there's not a size listed

TeeJay,,, thanks for posting the pictures, your watch looks great mate...

No worries, always happy to share, and thanks, i's got to be one of my favorite dial designs in the Submariner range

Hopefully I made it right

You did indeed, bro, I just made the mistake of thinking I could modify the dial to tint the outer track red The gesture itself was much appreciated though

That's just nasty

Didn't post yesterday because I was working on this:

I think under the circumstances, we can skip the court-martial this time

What can I say other than 'stunning'... The lume work is incredible, and totally in keeping with what I've seen of watches from that period, I absolutely love it

Totally agree with you TJ. I had the ultimate V5 for about 3 weeks and then traded it. I was very surprised at how well it balanced on my wrist given how extremely top heavy it looks, but that was the only thing that impressed me. It just seemed freakish to me. Not opposed to larger watches, but that one just looks weird to me.

Sorry I missed your comment at the time, amigo I understand what you mean, yes, in terms of 'weight distribution', the watch is perfectly balanced on the wrist, it's the undersized bracelet which makes the watch head seem so freakishly out of proportion. Not even so much that it's a 'big watch', just that bracelet issue letting it down badly

Ditto same experiance for me as well.

The resistance against the DSSD is gaining strength

Not to worry, Teejay, none taken.

I'm glad to hear I do understand and appreciate your 'faith to the original' approach to your projects, even if I don't follow it with my own

Many US Rolex RSCs would probably not even touch it at this point due to its age. However, if they did service it, they would want to replace any components that no longer meet specs with current parts. If you decline their recommendation, they may return the watch to you, unserviced.

In any case, because Rolex does not relume dials, having a vintage dial glowing brightly indicates a modified/fake dial.

Given that replacing components would radically change the appearance of the watch, I think you're right to say that they would probably decline the service due to it's age. If that was the situation, and the watch is no longer 'under warranty', then yes, as mentioned above, I could easily see the owner of such a watch having the dial re-lumed during a service by an 'off-site' watch smith

My criticism is simply that if function is more important than authenticity, why not choose a modern model that is easily readable in the dark?

Given that the watch of this thread is a rep, 'authenticity' is not the issue, but 'accuracy to original detail', and in that regard, with the greatest of respect, not everyone is as keen to be as 'true to form/faithful to the original' as you are with your own projects

[Edit to add]

That might've come across worse than it was intended, and I'd just like to say that no offense was intended, just that I know you are very much a purist when it comes to accuracy of detail