TeeJay

TJ. That is exactly what I mean. I love the watch and I have the greatest respect for the work done. I just don't agree with the notion that it's a gen or semi gen watch and that it should have been posted over there. That's all.

It wasn't posted on the gen forum to say that it was a gen watch (regardless of the component parts) it was posted as a joke to yank their collective chain, as that was the watch under discussion, and all too often, gen owners act like they are The Authority on watches, when truth be told, they know nothing about what they are wearing beyond the price tag The fact that the parts making up the watch being gen, as opposed to a regular purchassed replica, was just gravy

[Edit to add] With regards they dial, while there is no denying that it is a customer [requested] modification rather than an 'out of the pack' piece of OEM stock, the fact that the modification was carried out by The Guy, using The Ink, well, it might as well be gen It's certainly closer to gen than any other piece of dial refinishing in the community

I believe the point which people are making, is that even though the dial itself is genuine, even though it has been re-finished by someone who refinished dials for Rolex using Official Rolex inks ( very nice hook up, by the way ) the fact that it was re-finished to customer specification (different to how the dial originally looked), rather than at the behest of Rolex, is what is preventing people from considering it as a 'gen' dial. I suspect that had the dial been scratched/water-damaged/crumbled lume, and restored to how it would have originally looked, then opinions may be different... Just my .2c, you already know I think the watch is awesome, and a totally unique piece of work in our community

[Edit to add]

Re the DJ comparison... Someone takes a DJ with a custom-installed dial (regardless of it being factory stock) Rolex would still decline the service, as they would say the modification voided the warranty. Only exception for this, was if the person took the DJ to Rolex themselves and had the customization performed by Rolex themselves (like when Oliver Shepard had his 1655 modified to include the dial and hands from a GMT Master)

No matter how I try and tell myself, this is for 'suit wear only', I can't seem to get it off my wrist

Awesome thread, bro I think my favorite Bond watch was the Seiko he wore in Octopussy. That was probably the first watch which truly caught my attention, and when I was younger, I had an ana/digi Casio with a similar display

Tee Jay,

Are those tattoos reps, frankens, or gens? If they're not gens, no posting on VRF!

All gen so far, but joking aside, I have copied designs by Shinji and Chris Garver into stencils which I will be having done, so I guess they could count as rep tattoos

I think that, ultimately, it was a snarky thing for us to do. Well, at least the way it was done. But, considering that the OP of that thread inquired about white '42s, it seemed logical for someone to toss my watch into the ring.

And, again, for those who just tuned-in, my '42 is all gen except for the insert. Yes, I repainted the (gen) dial white instead of its original black, but the watch is certainly not a replica, so no rules were broken (Phase 1 '42 at right)

It should also be noted that many of the senior members of gen forums routinely have their watches serviced by indy watchsmiths (Bob Ridley, Michael Young, etc), who must often swap defective parts for used or aftermarket parts, which, by definition, results in a Frankenstein watch. Had my watch been assembled by Bob Ridley, none of these gords would ever dare utter a discouraging word or complain that the pics were posted by someone affiliated with RWG. But because it was an RWG member that performed the same work, it gets some gen owners' (& those two-faced, double-agents) panties in a whirl.

Bottom line - it was a well intentioned idea that probably should have been handled differently.

Snarky, maybe, but still certainly within the context of the discussion, so not outside the bounds of good taste for those who could appreciate the watch for what it is

WM, I'm sure it's just a matter of time. But really it doesn't matter to me, there's not a lot of real discussion over there of what matters to me in watch collecting. I want to know how it was built, and why. I really don't care so much what it looks like.

So was this a joke, or a prank? No. I posted a picture of a genuine Pan-Am "albino" 6542 that I happened to know existed.

I'm sure the debate will rage for all eternity over whether it's genuine. Refer back to the other guy last week that posted his new 6542 with the non-original steel insert... that was received with open arms. If that's the only part of Freddy's watch that's not original, then it too deserves the same accolades.

Yes I pull pranks, over here. On gen fora I love a good joke but I never deceive people. They're cut from different fabric. Most of them are far too serious and identify "who" they are by what they own. That kind of person rarely suffers fools so it's stupid to act a fool.

So now I'm going to go put a voltage regulator from a Morris Minor on my $12,000 vintage Land Rover, and be proud of the fact that it still works as well as new. And that it's a real Land Rover.

I think there's a difference between folks who don't suffer fools gladly, and uptight humorless souls who don't know how to take a joke with good grace To me, folks who judge people by what they own, they're too judgemental and narrowminded to be anyone I'd want to consider a friend. It's like if someone was to judge me as being a scumbag for having tattoos, likewise, they're not someone I would want to be friends with I'm actually working on a backstory for a rep project that it is definitely going to take a good sense of humor to appreciate

One man's joke is another's "hey let's see if we can make those guys look like chumps" so I guess to each his own in terms of interpretation... certainly clear how they took it (which absolutely should have been expected). Don't get me wrong, I also agree with the assessment of the skill / knowledge of members here, and that members there are often poor sports. Those two points I actually tried to make in a (first) post over there which was never approved by the Mods. Regardless, I still think it was foolish not to see this train wreck coming, and my main gripe is that (knowing their disdainful view of reps & even frankens) this was bound to reflect poorly. I'd have much rather Freddy's piece get posted and instead of "discovered" just stated what it was. Instead of deceit, a proud declaration. They might have turned up noses just the same but at least it would be honest. Just my 2¢

Ahh, I see what you mean, and yes, I guess had another member of that forum genuinely found said photos online and posted them for discussion, it would have been a different matter. I just think that as there was no true attempt to deceive (beyond the mechanics of the prank itself), it's very different to a n00b posting their BK Sub, and then soliciting opinion on a watch which they know is fake. It's a bit like someone posted the other week about how they would take their arriving reps into ADs, so they could be told that the watch was real. I don't get that at all... Pulling a prank is one thing, but setting out to intentionally deceive (with no payout other than hollow praise), I can't understand that mindset at all, and I honestly don't see what Nanuq did here as coming into that latter catagory

Sigh, very poorly handled. I feel like a new member would have been banned for these shenanigans... aside from the broken rules, it just perpetuates the stereotype of rep owners as fake / shady people out to pull a fast one.

Totally disagree... A joke's a joke, this one clearly crossed a line and didn't quite fly, but so what? No one was saying "check out my new 'lex, I'm teh awesome!" No one was saying "who wants to buy this super-rare edition?" and naming a price. While there are some who say it's bad that gen owners know how good reps can be, I actually think it's good that they see watches looking identical to theirs which were a fraction of the cost. Let's not forget here, that Freddy's watches are built from genuine parts. They are as 'real' as the watches the gen owners circlejerk over, the only difference being that he has the skill to build his himself, all they can do, is slap down a credit card... anyone can do that I think it's good that it puts their noses out of joint and knocks them off their pedestals, it lets them know that not just people with fat wallets can have nice stuff too. If there's one trait I really cannot stand in others, it is elitism, and I'm never sorry to see an elitist put in their place. If that makes me a bad person, so be it, I'll get my comeuppance when the Lord feels it's my time

Well, the thread didn't play out quite as I predicted, but I certainly got an interesting read out of it

To be honest, and I probably should have said this earlier, I can custom make most any color scheme anyone would like.

I think another single color which would look good, would be the all blue scheme used for some Air Force models As mentioned, my concept for my project is: Rather than simply being a 50th Anniversary edition, if the GMTIIC had been a 50th Anniversary re-issue, what might the Original have looked like...

TeeJay, Rather than further hijack the other thread I put this here.

If I recall you asked freddy if the perspex/bakelite insert came in all black. Guess what!

This one is not finished yet, needs shaping and finish polish. I was planning a 16710 with a ceramic insert that I have as a spare, and custom white dial, an 'Oreo'! I decided to try the acrylic first. Hey, it's the Christmas season, I could do a red/green one, or even a plaid for Scotland!

That's looking fantastic Seeing how that looks, I'm wondering if a charcoal grey might give a color not only more in keeping with the modern cerachrome insert, but also capable of 'color shifting' further through the black spectrum depending on the ambient lighting

It was not 1 of our sellers, but here is the watch

With a bit of enhanced patination for the dial (it might also benefit from reluming), hands & case, 1 of JoeyB's inserts & a Yuki bracelet & you have a pretty respectable '42. And, according to their description, this watch comes with a slow-beat 2846, so you would not need to do any of the GMT component transplants I had to do.

The hand I built for my Phase 1 '42 was a true Frankenstein & it was all soldered together with silver solder (& alot of COLD sweat). The center ring came from a 1675 GMT hand, the center wand came from a generic hand (the 1675 wand was too thick) & the tip came from 1 of MY's aftermarket GMT hands (made to fit a 103x movement).

Had the rep above been available back then, I could have saved myself ALOT of time, money & effort.

That's absolutely fantastic, thanks for the links I wasn't planning on doing a 6542, but had a vague project idea for a customized version of 'something similar', which might look like a 50's Original of the GMTIIC. My main issues were wether to go for something 'transitional' between the 6542 and the 1675, or something more accurate to the 6542 specs The work on the hand is fantastic, and another example of why your pieces are the pieces of art which they are

How big a rush are you in? I am pursuing having the small arrow manufactured, so far no luck, but I won't quit!

Absolutely no rush whatsoever, I'm just mulling over a potential project, and what would give the best results for what I had in mind

No, TeeJay. I wish I did. That is why both JoeyB & I had to manufacture them out of other hands, which is alot of work.

Hang on.................I cannot remember whether it had a small tipped GMT hand or not, but 1 of our sellers is now offering a quite reasonable 6542 rep. Let me take a look around & get back to you on that.

That would be fantastic, thanks I seemed to remember something about needing to solder the tip on, and couldn't remember how it related to the size of the mounting ring of the hand for the movement's pinion

There are too many gen details in those pics for a knowledgeable collector to dismiss everything, which is why I suspect the 1st responder is more of a novice. Certainly, if I saw those 2 pics, the 1st thing I would do is look at the small details (which is where reps/frankens nearly always fall flat). How many reps/frankens have you seen of a Turn-O-Graph Deluxe? How many folded-link jubilee bracelets? How many riveted gold Oyster rep bracelets with the correct polished center links (matte edge links) & dents (that do not reveal the underlying base metal) have you seen? How many DJ Mystery dials? etc. etc. With those types of details, I would certainly call the GMT a gen (which it mostly is).

Oh I agree absolutely, only a fool would consider those watches as anything other than the pieces of art which they quite rightly are, and given the amount of gen components in each, well, it's the same old discussion we've had many a time about what would happen to gens which, due to lack of available Rolex-Issue spares, eventually being repairs with aftermarket parts. Okay, so your pieces got to that point from the other direction, but it's ultimately a Ship of Theseus debate, and I would certainly consider them as 'the real deal'. What I was referring to, was more the herd mentality of "Someone's made a comment about reps, I'll jump on that bandwagon..." Definitely be interesting to hear how the thread plays out On a similar, if unrelated note, do you know any sources for the small arrow GMT hand which would fit on an Asian GMT movement? I seem to remember yours (or one you had in the past) was self-made...

It's a shame that that comment was made so early, it will certainly stop the peanut gallery doing the usual 'nice piece' comments without paying further attention, but still all good entertainment, and it'll be interesting to see what comments are made on the pieces themselves, or if it'll just be the usual knee-jerk 'fakes are crap, we are teh aweseome!' circle jerking

In general, I agree, which is why I would never post my pics in gen forums. But a number of my pics have been found (via google) & reposted (as gens) on gen forums by gen forum members, many of whom then ooh & ahh over their 'favorite' pics. There are a number of threads here on RWG that discuss this (usually citing the fact that my pics were reposted without my permission & that was 1 of the reasons I began watermarking my pics).

The 2 pics I posted a few posts above this 1 are located in a user folder on a privately hosted server, so there is little usable info that anyone can get from them.

I never normally approve of reps being posted on gen boards, but in this instance, I would love to see their reaction to your albino, just because I'm bloody-minded like that

That's a nice collection, amigo Do you have favorites for different occasions?

Shhh...I have a good supply of this.

All jokes aside, I went to a museum exhibition on smell and perfume once and it was surprisingly interesting. It's something you tend take for granted, rather than breaking down into its constituent parts.

I have to admit, it was never something I really gave much thought to, but I have the feeling this could be a new interest

I much prefer CQout.com, as they have an inhouse escrow system which protects the buyer's money 100%. While I appreciate that the forum exists to protect buyers from scammers, I disagree that only Forum Trusted Dealers should be discussed here, as that is not 'protecting buyers', it is simply promoting (regardless of what the disclaimers say) specific vendors. While said vendors may indeed have proven their reliability over time, they should not be viewed as 'the only game in town, and I feel that in the interest of protecting members from true scam dealers, discussion of off forum dealers who have also proven themselves (if only to their clients) should be allowed, as that is then taking in a bigger picture than just promoting a select few who have made the grade WatchEden used to be a QCout trader, and their integrity is beyond reproach, yet even they were unable to avoid falling foul of CQout's 'three strikes' feedback policy. That is not meant as a slur on WatchEden, but an example of how stringent CQout actually is with the sellers who list there, so I feel the site should be cut a little slack when it comes to potentially recommending dealers who sell there Just my .2c

[Edit to add]

Just to balance that point, I would not suggest people use CQout unless they either 1) Know precisely what they are looking for, or 2) Are willing to accept what arrives without pissing and moaning about trivial details. ie Don't go on CQout, buy a Sub for £30 and expect to receive a BK Sub. As with everything, choose your seller then choose your watch. Know what you want, and know what to expect

Thanks for the endorsement, bro I just figured it might provide an easier solution to folks filling a suitcase with two dozen cans while on holiday, and having to leave clothes at the hotel to make room for said cans I also thought it could be a way of folks trying stuff they may not be able to get locally, if someone recommends something which they like themselves There're a couple of nice deoderants I've found in local supermarkets, but not being a connoisseur of scents, I don't know if they're 'smellalikes', or just nice scents in their own right, and only found out about the Oriental by chance, as you know

This is an idea I have just had following deoderant discussions with my bro, Maxman... This forum is a nationally diverse, and stylistically sensitive group of individuals, and many of us have made some considerable travels over the years (some further than others ) I figure I can't be the only member who has found deoderants and aftershaves I liked while abroad, which were not available domestically, so I wondered if folks would be interested in starting the ISE: The International Scent Exchange. The plan is simplicity itself. Member A says that he wants x amount of cans of Brand Y product, available in Country Z. Member B (in Country Z) lets Member A know if it is available, and what they would want in order to 'hook a brother up'... Now, I know that this is a very generous community, and I know that many would simply throw a few cans in the mail gratis, or maybe in exchange for some parts, but, if said deliveries were to become regular (either monthly, or in bulk) then I figure it is only fair for Member A to cover Member B's purchase and shipping costs (This isn't aimed at you, M, those cans are coming to you gratis ) and I just figured I'd put the idea out there for folks to see what they think, and if there would be any interest Accordingly, I thought people could always suggest products local to them, which they may feel will be of interest to others. I'll go first with this suggestion...

The long discontinued Axe/Lynx deoderant Oriental... I have found that a 100% identical scent is available from a store in the UK called Wilkinson, sold as a homebrand deoderant under the name Cyclone. I forget the costs off the top of my head, but they are currently doing an offer, 2 cans for £1.20.

So, what do you think, amigos? A group venture worth pursuing?

Another option, is to get a really nice white leather strap and fit that instead of the bracelet I did that with my wife's a few years back, fitting it to a bund strap, and it looked fantastic. Only issue was when the faux leather started to peel, and the white paint came off the case (might actually get her a full ceramic, one of these days ) but if you get a decent leather strap, it'll really look the business

The YM really is a thing of beauty, and a really nice alternative to the Submariner It dresses down much better than the Sub dresses up Thanks for taking the time for such an awesome review

There is one other point, the more you ask the dealers to do the more the cost of these goods will rise.

Go to one of the off board sites and they will have stock pic's of each watch but try and get them to offer lume shots and pic's of the watch sitting in a tester or even pic's of the actual watch they will send and see how far that takes you.

Ken

And yet I always received a watch which looks like the stock photo in a good working condition The one time I was sent the wrong thing, they replaced it without issue. [edit to add] Just remembered that when I bought my vintage Sub from Silix, they sent the wrong model, and rather than return it, I just kept it for an easy life... My only beef with my latest DJ, is that the lume on the hands is not fantastic, but other than that, what have I got to complain about? It keeps excellent time, goes underwater without issue, looks good enough to not embarass me when I wear it, and is incredibly comfortable in terms of both bracelet and weight. Of course, any recommended dealer could have provided the same watch, but I would have paid more for it, but with regards the QC pics, as above, I'm happy to buy on the strength of a stock photo. There's another watch I am vaguely considering buying, which is a fantasy piece, but I don't like the bracelet (Deep GMT with ceramic midlinks) If I ask the dealer if it can be sent with a regular DSSD bracelet instead, I could overlook my DSSDphobia and give one a try. If he says no, I'll shrug my shoulders and forget buying. But, if he says yes, I'm not going to ask for a QC pic... I have a good idea what the product should look like, and am happy to wait and see what happens. I wonder, would dealers rather go to the effort of taking individual QC shots of a watch (which of course means QCing the thing in the first place) only to maybe be told something is off and then have to repeat the procedure, or, would they rather display a stock image, send the item, and then deal with any issues post-sale once the buyer actually has the item in their hand? For example, a flaw visible on a screen-sized blown up macro of the dial, might actually be totally ignorable on the wrist, and said watch might have been turned down from a QC pic, when in reality, it would've been accepted

TeeJay, I would tend to agree with you on everything, EXCEPT when it comes to replica watches. I was sent some QC pics on a roman numeralled watch, turned out the digits were completely crooked in the stock photo. I asked for QC photos of the actual item, they were shocking. I was offered to have them repaired by the dealer's watch smith, to which I replied, 'if the problem is so bad from the factory, how will a watch smith do a better job?' and promptly had my money refunded.

Dealers need to do just enough to satisfy us, so that we don't complain, and I completely understand it. Margins are tight, it's completely normal. But QC pics are a very important and integral part of the process, especially with the 'close enough is good enough' mentality of the dealers. I don't think pictures are too much to ask for.

If it was an AD, I would absolutely not need to ask for QC pics. I know it'll be perfect. It has never not been, and I have easy recourse. From a rep deal, too much backwards and forwards, not worth the hassle. Better to make sure before sending, IMHO.

I totally understand your point, and that is certainly a very valid example where a QC pic helped avoid a disappointment upon opening the package However. All I can say in my own experience, is the only disappointing watches I received was from Silix, and another time when I received the completely wrong watch, was when I ordered from a dealer called AppleWave. Other than that, everything has been good, and it's no secret that I don't order from any of the recomended dealers, so from that perspective, I just can't see the necessity for QC pics on every deal as SOP Of course, as has been mentioned many times, this truly is a hobby where YMMV could not be more true