TeeJay

Thanks Pugwash, I appreciate where you're coming from. I'm cool with it.

Here's how the process works. We'll start with the assumption that he's picked out a gun, etc.

Buyer fills out ATF form 4473. (PDF for review)

Dealer reviews the form for completeness and verifies the appropriate questions are answered correctly.

Dealer performs NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) check by contacting the FBI system directly by phone and will do the following:

1) Call a NICS operator and confirm his identity with his FFL number and dealer-selected password.

2) Provide the operator with the name, date-of-birth, sex and race of the potential buyer and the type of transfer--handgun or long gun. A buyer with a common name may, at his option, provide his Social Security number to help speed the check.

3) The system will check the data against its database of prohibited persons. If there is no "hit," the sale will be approved. The system will assign a NICS Transaction Number (NTN) to the approval. The dealer will log the NTN on the form 4473, and the transfer will proceed.

4) Partially completed forms 4473, where a proposed sale has been denied, will be required to be retained by the FFL per BATF regulations.

5) When a "hit" occurs, the dealer will receive instruction to delay the transaction. A "delay" response indicates that the check turned up information that requires further review by an analyst, who will contact the dealer by return call.

While the law provides three business days for the FBI to respond, the FBI anticipates that virtually every delay will be handled within a day. If records require further investigation, the FBI may take up to three days to issue either a proceed or a denial. There will be an appeals process for purchasers who feel they were denied in error, and dealers will be furnished with forms for this process.

If the check is successful the personally-identifying information given to the NICS center is destroyed by the FBI within 24 hours. The completed form 4473 remains in the dealer's filing system indefinitely.

Note that no firearm(s) serial numbers were given to the NICS center, only the type was identified (hand gun or long gun). The SN is recorded on the 4473 which is retained by the dealer only.

If everything goes smoothly the entire process takes about 10 minutes and the buyer goes out the door with the firearm.

Now here's where things get interesting. There is no registry of firearms, so the only place the buyer's name and that gun's serial number are connected is on the 4473 in the dealer's records. Now let's suppose this gun (we'll say it's a Smith & Wesson) turned up at a crime scene. Here's how a firearms trace works.

• ATF contacts S&W and provides them with the SN of the firearm
  
• S&W reports that the firearm was sold to Davidson's Wholesale in Prescott, AZ (just tossing out examples here)
  
• ATF contacts Davidson's and asks for the purchaser of the S&W
  
• Davidson's reports that it was sold to The Gun Vault in Bowling Green, KY (my old store)
  
• ATF contacts The Gun Vault and requests the same information
  
• Dealer retrieves customer information from his records and provides it to the ATF.
  
• ATF contacts that person to inquire about the status of the S&W
  
• Buyer reports that he sold it to a pawn shop
  
• ATF contacts the pawn shop... etc.
  

It's an incredibly long process but it prevents the government from maintaining a database of what we, as individuals, own. The resistance to the creation of a national registry is that if unconstitutional bans are enforced the government would have a list of who has what, making it much easier for them to raid/confiscate/etc.

I hope you found this an interesting read, and please let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers!

That was a very interesting read, thanks for taking the time to explain I couldn't get the PDF to open, but that's probably for the best, as I'd've been tempted to fill it in The one thing that I'm still not 100% clear on, is if NICS say the person can't have the weapon (presumeably because of criminal background) how does that not violate the person's Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms? I only ask, as it seems a direct bureaucratic way of preventing someone from actually exercising that right (by preventing them from making the purchase)

Very interesting to know that the SNs aren't on a national register, but held at point of sale instead

Also, that dealer isn't very well thought of...

Noobmariner, When it showed up my only other rep was a Tag Heuer Link Chrono "Super-rep". A I had never held a gen submariner, I was expecting a weighty quality feel to the watch. The Bracelet let me down the most, and bezel just looks cheap.

Ah well, cheap rep cheap feel I guess eh?

Quite the reverse... The gen Submariner feels like a cheap watch when put on the wrist. First time I tried one on, I was totally underwhelmed. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was disgusted, but I definitely thought the watch felt like a rip off for that price. That's what sparked my hunt for reps...

It wasn't until someone pointed out that the Submariner was never originally built or intended as a 'luxury watch', that my opinion changed towards it. THink of a Submariner and bracelet like a stripped down race car: Lean, practical, functional, 'Does what it says on the tin'. While the bracelets are comfortable, in car terms, it would be built for speed, not comfort... Once I understood and appreciated that fact, my opinion towards the classic Rolex range improved considerably

Hmmm, this strikes me rather like the Emporer's new suit... If each tag is totally unique and impossible to copy/reproduce, that in itself invalidates it as a security medium, because someone would only need to produce something which looked visually similar (I'm sure I could create something similar by injecting air into a blob of epoxy with a thin needle as used by diabetics) and that would then be accepted as authentic, because even the genuined tags would not be 100% identical to each other, only visually similar... Interesting to read about though

While it is not my biggest watch disappointment, that honor still goes to the VCO, I am very disappointed by how I have been unable to bond with the 1655

Busy/cramped dial markers and lack of a timing bezel mean the watch just lacks features I find essential requirements. Sure, it looks nice, I don't feel the need to rip it off the second I put it on, as I did with the VCO, but I guess it's just 'not me'

Absolutely fantastic craftsmanship

Here's my humble collection. Only the two on the far right are working at present, the others are either works in progress, or in need of new movements. Worryingly, the 6200-inspired project stopped while I was arranging the shot It seems to be working now, but I suspect it might also be in need of a new movement Oh well, if I'm reduced to wearing the 1655 so be it...

This isnt looking good.

I for one would be bending over backwards to make sure my integrity stayed intact.

Saying "im telling you i posted them" is about as useful as a pork pie in a mosque!!

Lani's right,refund till they turn up.Thats the only way forward.

If it does all go t.i.t.s up.

Isnt there some way that say 50 or 100 of us could all throw in 10 or 20 USD in to a pot and get these lads the watches they were supposed to get????I know for a fact that theres that many of us who would sort it!!

Just an idea but im sure we could do it.

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

er, I mean

:victory:

Oy! I ride the bus too. Come to think of it I also wear t-shirts, although I don't own any shorts. Nevertheless I could pick up a genuine Navitimer or two tomorrow if I was so inclined, and afterwards I'd still be riding buses.

Years ago I knew a multi-millionaire who'd left the rat race, hung out with the homeless guys and spent his nights under bridges and on hot air vents. He used to be the head stable master for the Saudi royal family and still wore a Patek. I got to know him after I offered to buy him a burger, which he politely declined and instead bought me a three course meal at the most expensive place in town.

Only the mentally limited judge others by their appearance or their chosen mode of transportation.

Now that's a cool story That's a pretty eccentric way for a multi-millionaire to live, but as they say, no harm, no foul

Interesting, JB! I can't decide if I like modern maxi-dials or not!

I still don't know what to do with this one!

Personally, I like Maxi-dials simply as it means more visibility That said, I do prefer the old-style dial of a 1680, compared to the modern Maxi-dial, simply because I prefer the 'surround-less' look

As for what do to with that one... Only one answer...

Wear it well

Yeah, I need the fat hands to make it complete but coming up with hands for a21j movements is somewhat, shall we say, challenging....

Ahem... PM

Thanks teejay i will keep you informed on progress! and thanks to all for your different ideas,i will stick with this project

to see over a certain time what kind of results can be had with natural fading ,of course not every insert will have the same finishing system so im lookin forward to results!

I definitely think it'll be an interesting project, but, I suspect it might be quite a long-term one

...guys..guys...what r u trying to do? Whom r u trying to fool by scratching your reps with sandpapers knives brillos and stones...or baking or throwing from t balcony...(yes AEROMATIC it's me again,your guardian angel).The only one u fool...is your selves first n then all t others..(well...not all of them).Let your timekeepers age naturally n physically,n let em remind u...not only what time is...but olso the memories of each scratch.Start writing your own story on your watches by wearing them everyday n all times n don't mind where u hit em.The most hilarius of all,was that guy who baked t bezel with some cookies...well man...next time make some barbecue to age your dial n tell us what happened

Fooling ourselves is all part of the fun (Not as much fun as custom-building watches, of course ) When I was younger, I never felt like a watch was 'my watch' until it had a scratch on the crystal, now, I've just come to appreciate the vintage aesthetic over factory pristine Another thing I've found, is that wearing a 'vintaged' watch, means no-one pays it any attention, so it avoids the whole "Is that a real Rolex?" question

What can I say, absolutely fantastic, and pure class all round That's what this community is all about

Always glad to be of inspiration If only I could get my projects completed as quickly

That's looking awesome I'm going to check out the source of the hands and see what variations in sizes they have

More under 'curved ends'

When I was at school, one of my friends had a watch which was a digital moonphase. Absolutely fantastic watch. Polished SS case, with a gold-colored fixed bezel, and a really thick honey-tan strap. I never got one, and I don't think they're available any more, but that really was the business

Nothing terribly interesting...

:rofl:

:wub:

The strap which is sold with most Planet Ocean reps, is actually the Seamaster strap, designed for the SMP. This strap has rectangular notches, and a wide tongue on the buckle. The inside has the words Omega Seamaster Professional. The correct Planet Ocean strap has lozenge-shaped notches, a thinner tongue on the buckle, and the inside has the words Omega Seamaster Professional Planet Ocean. You should be able to pick up an SMP strap fairly easily and cheaply

How can you drimm a dial without making it "un-round"???

Very gentle sanding

Put the paper on a desk, then holding the dial 'edge down', gently and at a single stroke each time, rotating the dial each time, to ensure as consistent abrasion as possible

Looks awesome I'd love to know the process involved

Very nice

Pabst - USA

I'll look forward to seeing how the project progresses