TeeJay

Had a chance to work on the crystal today. Filed, sanded and buffed a few times. It still shows a few deep scratches but filing from different angles gave it a nice "uneveness" that give it a great vintage look under light after a good buffing.

100% improvement, my friend Now you can see the hands clearly, but the watch still looks like it's taken a flogging

Hello everybody,

Today I had lunch with my friend who is also official Rolex watch repairer and he gave me interesting info about the DSSD. First of all some have rust problem but Rolex tries to hide that story and, second but not the least, Rolex will soon lunch a mark 2 Deep Sea with a bigger band and so, slightly modify the case...

That means, actual DSSD will be very rare in the future as they will be modified and produced only two years. Contact your banks!!!

Other info, tudor is already lunching models with ceramic on the band so as to be a Rolex lab, that means future Rolex models will have ceramic mid links

Best regards

Interesting news indeed There's been a rep of the DSSD with ceramic mid-links for a while now

Let's extend the analogy: take your father's Deuce Coupe with the flathead Ford v8 and replace the engine with a small block Chevy (a travesty, I know).

Is it still a Deuce Coupe?

Let's consider other brands... on the Doxa forum you see people all the time who have repainted dials green, or applied logos, or changed out bezels, or replaced hands sets. In their eyes those are still Doxas.

If you tried any of this on VRF, even the smallest detail changed from "factory delivered", you'd be called out.

I like the sound of a green-dialled Doxa

As you say, that's the kind of thing which would get someone called out on a forum, but, those doing the calling out, would be missing the point of how cool the modification actually is

I can't help with the watches, bro, but good to see you posting again

I've actually wondered about what would happen if I (or someone) put a franken DJ on eBay. Suppose every part of it was gen from case to bracelet, except the movement. As long as it was stated gen Rolex with movement replaced to Swiss Eta. Doesn't the greater part take precedence over the small part that has been changed? As long as it is truthfully described with full disclosure.

There's actually a lot to be said for owning a franken over a gen in this case since it eliminates the $500 Rolex service that is required every 5 years or so on a gen.

I think with full disclosure, then such a sale should be permitted, but realistically speaking, it might well get pulled. Let's not forget though, that 'small part', is what turns a bracelet, into a functioning time-piece I think the context would be decided by if it was indeed a gen which had had to have an aftermarket movement installed, or if it was actually a self-assembled composite watch

Yes there was a post recently on this subject regarding France. Fortunately the UK takes the view that it is the manufacturers and sellers they have to target. What the situation will be eventually as far as European law goes is anybody's guess as far as I know. I think it's probably likely we'll see more, rather than less, clamping down on counterfeit products in future, though I think watches are far down the list which starts with counterfeit drugs, counterfeit aircraft parts, etc.

Yes I think you're safe with your project! Again it is an interesting hypothetical issue. But in future after the project is completed, when a noob asks who has the best sub, we'll be able to say you do, but it isn't a sub!!

I can't believe that I've had the project in planning for over a year now, and the only part I have for it so far, is the bezel insert... Funny how things can get in the way of a project

It'll certainly be interesting to see how things do change, especially with regards the UK's involvement in Europe... As you say though, much more important fish for them to be frying than a few moody bags and watches

Some good clarification there mbjoer. I would guess I will be OK with my Franken Datejusts. I have to travel throughout Europe and beyond on occasion so it might be important some day, particularly in Italy or possibly France, where it is actually illegal to own a rep.

Tee-Jay I suppose the only danger, and it is highly unlikely, is if Rolex objected and it came to court, they court may order the offending parts destroyed rather than just made sterile.

I knew reps were illegal to own in Italy, but didn't realize they were illegal to own in France as well... Interesting

I think it would depend on if the parts were indeed genuine Rolex issue, or aftermarket copies. In theory, I could build my project out of 100% genuine parts, I'm just not comfortable calculating how much I would have to spend to obtain said parts Indeed, rep parts, they possibly could order destroyed, due to their counterfeit nature, but, I would suspect that a compromise of 'sterilizing' the parts, might be accepted rather than outright destruction. Of course, purely hypothetical, as I can't see my project landing me in a court room

I think that's one of those watches which I will always like the look of, and appreciate, but likely never actually wind up with in my own collection...

Don't get on too well with your mother in law

Your painting analogy seems to me exactly the same as making a rep, the parts have all been made and marked to 'resemble' the original. To me the Franken seems more like an artist who takes an original painting and maybe puts on a new frame, or paints in an extra character. That wouldn't be forgery. And of course what I am doing is the same effectively as Rolex did with Tudor. I wouldn't think Ford, in my example, would have any legal right to make me replace a Ford engine in my car with another the same, nor would Ford be able to stop me buying a scrap Ford and modifying it out of sight with all sorts of components but still wearing a Ford badge. In short I can understand a complete rep watch or Rolex marked parts such as dial or caseback being counterfeit but I can see no way genuine parts coupled with non genuine, but not 'Rolex' marked parts, can be described as a forgery. I would argue it is a Rolex watch which has been modified, not a fake Rolex.

It's an interesting dilemna.

Oh while I think of it your project could be considered either way, it depends what Rolex have rights on. For example, in the guitar world, Fender have rights on the Telecaster and Stratocaster headstock shape. Copy it, you'll get served a cease and desist notice followed by legal action if you don't change it. The Chinese of course ignore this I doubt Rolex have rights on anything that would stop you though, most of their features are common to other watches and not distinctive enough to be patented.

Ahh, I see what you mean. I think the intent of the end look for the project would be the determining factor. (as well as 'personal use' v resale intent) A completely fantasy project (such as mine), I think would probably be allowed in so much as it was not copying any existing specific model of watch, but, Rolex would probably be able to order the watch 'sterilized' (and certainly so if it was to be sold ) as it would be a misappropriation of their trademark. If it was a case of only using sterilized parts, then the watch would be in the same legal status as Alpha Watches. It would be a homage, not a replica. The inclusion of the brand-name would be what would determine replica or homage. If it was a franken built from 100% gen pieces (no aftermarket stuff at all) and to an existing design (DJ or Sub) then I think it would come under the 'forgery' classification, so tolerated for 'personal use' but not at attempted sale...

Artistically speaking, some forgers will deliberately include 'flaws' into their works, so people who truly appreciate the works, will understand that they are not by the 'copied artist'

I tried on an Aquaracer, and a white Exp II following By-Tor's reviews, but, as I've told him before, in real life, the watches just did not live up to his awesome photography, and I was left feeling 'let down' by them That's how good his reviews are

Looking good I loved the carbon strap I had for my 127, I just hardly wore it...

Interesting question...

Personally, I would think it would be along the same lines (legally speaking) as an artist who forges a masterpiece: They might not have manufactured every component part themself (ie mixing the paints, making the canvas) but they did 'arrange it in a way that resembles the original'...

Of course, that's just my .2c

A totally custom build, on the other hand, such as my planned GMTIICSubDweller project, I would be quite happy to stand up in court and challenge Rolex to prove that they ever made that model watch... Legally speaking, I think they'd be able to insist the watch was 'sterilized', but in terms of actual features and functions, I think I'd have them over a barrel

I'm sticking with this

would Jetmid wear his into an AD ???

no matter what is discussed here.. there are those I'm sure that will ignore the cardinal rule of this hobby..

better them than me.. I say

AC

Lani

Absolutely fantastic photos, thanks for sharing Here's wishing you both many years of happiness

Thanks TJ!!!

You're very welcome, nothing I like more than seeing some true vintage wabi-sabi

Going by what the Border Patrol list as "contraband"... reps. are on that "list" other euphemisms are "counterfeit", or "fake" but the "fact" remains that the Border Patrol Office "says" quoting a Customs Supervisor... "it does not matter if you are using it for "personal" enjoyment or as a Hobby.. it is still illegal..and you should be very careful".. the inflection was on "be very careful"

with this coming from the " US Border Patrol", I would be inclined to believe it as gospel ..

But does that only apply to when items are being physically brought across the border, and while subject to customs checks, or does that extend to items which are already across the border, in someone's possession, and then 'somehow spotted'? As Freddy mentioned when posting the video clip above, the watch was not seized, and, now I think about it, as far as I remember, neither was OJ Simpson's Rolex seized when it was discovered to be counterfeit, but I believe, was returned to him

TeeJay....that looks SUPERB!!!!!

Thanks, amigo, I'm just glad that the world gets to see your awesome dial clearly at last While I loved the vintage feel of the NATO case, I just couldn't stand the strap's inability to get wet anymore, and, as the other Tudor Subs I've seen appear to have thicker crystals than a regular Sub, I thought the GMT Master II would provide a reasonable case, and I'm really pleased with how it's looking Of course, I might still apply a little aging to the case, just so it's not 'box fresh' (as the GMT hardly got worn) I think the credit with this one, still belongs well and truly with your awesome dial I will eventually be completing the NATO Tudor sub project, once I have a better dial in the vintage sub, but for now, I need the clarity and luminosity of the Tudor dial, can't stand not getting the strap wet anymore, and didn't like how the dial looked in the heavily vintaged case, so this combination was my only satisfactory solution, and I'm really pleased with how it's turned out

Thanks again for such a generous gift, I look upon it as an early birthday present (next saturday)

Contraband, is generally a classification that a country places on products which it considers useful in waging war or are dangerous or detrimental to country's security or the the public safety, for example arms, munitions, certain hazardous materials, etc. Usually these are the products of another nation which is considered to be an opposing or beligerant adversary.

There are also certain products that do not fall into the weapon type category, yet they are also listed as contraband, as they can be used to generate trade and currency, thereby empowering those nations' economy, which once again can lead to their ability to procure the means to wage war against other nations. For example Lybian produced oil is considered contraband in certain nations incuding the US.

Just because a nation considers an item cotraband, it doesn't make it so for another nation. For example, one of Cuba's largest industries is the tabacco industry. Cuban cigars are legal in just about every nation in the world, except the US which treats any Cuban product as contraband. The same was the case with South-African Diamonds and gold a few years ago when South Africa was on the US government Sh*tlist.

The Swiss government has put in place a ban on counterfeit watches as it [claims] it deeply hurts its economy, so its customs agents effectively confiscate and destroy any replicas that infringe on what they feel is their national product. They were also able to enlist other EU countries to go along with their clamp-down, and some are more effective enforcers than others, most notably Germany.

I do not know if Switzerland lists counterfeit watches as contraband, but the US does not. Reps generally fall into the counterfeit, reproduction and forgery class, and ownership of such items for personal use is not against the law as far as I know (but then again I'm not a lawyer either).

Think in terms of other replicas and reproductions. Many people would like to own a Picasso for example, but only a handful can afford one. Yet some people have reproductions of those paintings hanging in their house. As long as it's for your own enjoyment, and you don't try to sell it as the real deal, everything is OK.

I don't know how many of you (here in the US) watch PBS' Antique Roadshow. Many times people go there with what they think are genuine antiques or collectibles, only to find out they actually have a knock-off. I don't remember seeing any agents there confiscating their items once they are declared non-genuine.

That was certainly the thoughts I was having about the legality of owning reps, as opposed to anything else like narcotics/certain weapons etc which would definitely be considered 'seize on sight' illegal items to carry.

Ditto & the s-h-i-t is so high it is getting into my boots & soiling my argyle socks.

Some of you may find this amusing

(Note that the court ordered no seizure even in the case of a fake Rolex being sold as gen )

Indeed And it was valued at $50 by an expert Maybe he should have offered $450 and the watch

haha.Thanks for asking redwatch. I'm very much still with the same girlfriend.. this summer we got married here in Spain(she's spanish) and had an amazing 3-week honeymoon in Cambodia.

Congratulations Were there photos posted? I don't seem to remember photos being posted...

GMT today

That's some fine vintage

As an example of "contraband".. take the Habanos Cigars .. just because you get them past Customs does not make them legal to own.. many a case has been made ...various contraband have differing points of legality I'm sure. some more serious than others.

But let's say that you were to go by the strict "definition" of the law.. (which happens in a court of law or with Customs Agents) .. then all items deemed Contraband would in fact be illegal to Posses ..

edit add:goods whose importation or exportation or possession is prohibited by law

so the interesting point to ask is ... take the topic back to ownership .. if it is illegal to posses by law is it legal to "own".. or if you are the legal owner are you therefore breaking the law ??

that may or may not be a play on semantics.. but non the less a question that cannot be avoided .. if we're going to discuss "rights"

L

Are reps definitely classed as 'contraband', or might they be classed as 'prohibited items', such as knifes, stunguns, pepper-sprays? If the latter, then local laws would apply for their ownership, while they could be permitted 'for personal use' in one area, but deemed illegal in another area/country (as with how reps are simply illegal [haram, might be a more accurate word] to own at all, in Italy, for example)

An example which springs to mind, is the scene in Pulp Fiction where Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta are discussing the legality of hash in Amsterdam, and it is said that: "it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and it's legal to smoke it in your home or certain designated places. It's illegal to carry it, but, that don't matter, 'cause if the cops stop you, it's illegal for them to search you..."

I wouldn't like to say how true this actually is, but certainly sounds like a plausible rational, and I'm wondering if it might be a reverse of that with reps, in that it's illegal to sell them, and illegal to import them, but not illegal to own them (for the sole purpose of owning, rather than selling)...

I was wondering why are the crown guards always wrong on reps. If they can make copies of Rolex almost to detail, why can