TeeJay

I'm not normally a huge B&R fan, but that watch and strap combo looks awesome

There is a $108 version available, but the most notable flaw, is that the sub-dials are too cramped together in the middle of the dial... It makes the dial look much less 'balanced' than the other version... If you're not desperate for 100% accuracy in replication, it might serve your needs I'd recommend the dealer at any rate, I buy virtually all my watches from him Best of luck with your search, the 1911 Discovery is a fantastic watch

Thanks. And keep in mind that the stock markets are unrelated to all this really even in the valuation of the bank stocks really. The bond markets absolutely dwarf the equity markets and that is where the real power brokers of the world move money. And the most powerful of the powerful do so off-market amongst themslves. That is where the real problems lie...

Would that be a problem because it's de-regulated/out of the public eye, where other kinds of stocks are being traded publicly?

Changing a battery on a Casio gets you Top 20...change a strap, and you're a shoe-in for the Top 5.

I stripped my Vector Clone down to component parts, spent the better part of an hour re-shaping the movement contacts so they would work when the buttons were pushed (I accidentally moved them out of allignment by using the spaces as torque space for my screwdriver to remove the movement But, I repaired the damage myself, and restored the contacts to full functionality ) then reassembled it, and now have plans to maybe fit an OEM Suunto strap (which appears identical to the strap on the clone, except the clone has an extra 'line' moulded in, and the keeper has no logo )

Does that pass muster?

This is all fascinating stuff I've always had an interest in the stockmarket, I've just never had the funds to actually play with it... Robbie, thanks for the posts, they're incredibly informative

I think the only problem with the proposal of Nightstroker's dad, is that it assumes that people are not making their payments because they can't make payments. Another issue with sub-prime lending, is that it gives credit to people who, not only can't afford to make repayments, but also don't intend to make payments. At one point, I did work for a company which dealt with sub-prime car finance (which went bust several years ago), and one application particularly struck in my mind. The underwriters had asked for four recent letters to prove the person's address. The letters they sent, were notices that their insurance was being cancelled as they didn't make the payments, that their Sky was being disconnected because they weren't making the payments, that their AOL was getting disconnected because they weren't making the payments, and a credit card statement saying that that was in arrears... I think it made a pretty clear case that the person simply did not pay their bills... That is the true downside of sub-prime lending, in that people who might not be able to afford to pay are given the opportunity to pay, but equally, so are the people who simply refuse to pay, thus creating the problem of massive arrears...

Putting people into homes which they can (on paper) afford, does not guarantee that they will actually make the payments

Awesome idea though, it'd be awesome if it works

I can only imagine he was used to handling small objects

Indeed

That is truly remarkable. I can't even imagine using a tool invisible to the naked eye to make engravings, and the process he must have used is mind-boggling.

well, just to get a glimpse of how bad this is hitting ADs, i went to mayors to check out the ceramic GMT...they offered me 10% OFF. i will say that again...Mayor's offered to reduce the price of a new Ceramic GMT by 10%. If you've ever shopped at Mayor's you know exactly how crazy that is...they are desperate for business. the thing is you would think that customers of high end brands like rolex have plenty of disposable income for toys like that. if anything, the rep companies will be hit much harder. i for one used to buy 3-5 reps monthly...i haven't bought anything for 3 months. then again, judging by how much i've lost in stocks and real estate this year, i'm surprised i have enough money left to eat...

The thing you have to remember, is that although such people might live in a higher income bracket, they still have corresponding outgoings like utilities, mortgages, etc (even Mischa Barton bought her home on a mortgage, rather than a celeb-style wad-of-cash-outright-payment ) In that regard, recession is a great equalizer. The only people who might be better off, are those with considerable savings which they can use to supplement their incomes, but all in all, pretty much everyone's tight for cash, so accordingly, businesses are having to compensate in ways like you've mentioned. They're desperate for business, so have to give people real incentives to spend cash on what is, ultimately, an unnecessary indulgence purchase... Things should pick up eventually, but it may be a while before things are completely stabilized.

Well, last weekend, I was wearing this:

Seven days later, and I'm reduced to this:

Seriously though, I think the financial mess will affect the rep world in the way it affects other mainstream businesses related to 'extras', namely, sales will drop, for the simple reason that if folks are hard up, they're not going to have as much ready disposable income to spend on the unnecessary extras which make life that little bit better. In a way, while folks might be planning on selling their collections to put a little cash in their pockets (and I must admit, this thought has crossed my own mind recently) chances are other people are hard up too, so don't have the cash to make the purchases anyway... Hard to sell when folks can't really justify buying

Hi Teejay,

no, to be honest, I was never drawn to any GMT watches, until I saw the ceramic. Something about the watch bring out emotions that I did not have with any GMT watches. I remembered the old days when Eddie offered the ETA 2893 in 029 and 063, and I should have jumped on it then for $450. Look at how much the currency of reps have changed. It's been pretty crazy. Maybe it's a funny way that someone is telling me that I am just not supposed to spend any money on GMTs in general! Maybe I will get some trades out of all these GMTs here. But to be honest, I really wanted a good Ceramic. But I just really cannot put myself into all the time invested in it, at least the emotion part of it, then get let down that much..........

That's fair enough, I guess watch-wise, they're pretty much something of a 'love it or hate it' watch. Personally, I love how they look, but wouldn't really feel comfortable wearing one if it wasn't actually tracking a second (different) time zone for some reason (be it on vacation, or tracking a time in another country that a relative is on vacation in, for example), which is why I don't wear my 029 very often... Maybe when the time is right, you'll look into getting a GMT again Best of luck with the sales

As Pugwash said, the term is Lurker. Forum Stalkers follow people from forum to forum (normally with the intent of arguing with them) Nothing wrong with lurking, but participating is much more fun and rewarding

Suunto's are very function heavy watches...and something worth getting in the gen variety if you can. They suck batteries like crazy though. You buy them because you need the specific functions for mountaineering, backcountry travel, etc. If you're not using those functions, something like you bought for the look of the big piece is far more practical than spending all the money on functions you won't use.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. The reviews I read also made mention of them being heavy on the batteries... If I recall, one guy mentioned that his watch just died halfway up a mountain / To be honest, those kind of specific functions, I simply would never use with enough regularity to warrant buying one as a tool for those times, so a rep was only ever going to be as close to a Suunto as I would buy. Seeing this one though, was even better, as it was a close enough look, at an incredibly low price

To be honest, I'm impressed by how similar the basic case and strap assembly is to a gen Suunto (and the sticker on the caseback did say 'made in China' ) so I'm wondering if this was indeed from a 'rep factory', or another example of a 'gen factory' also making sterile surplus. Admitedly, the movement is nowhere near right, but, it's certainly functional, so that's good enough for me Overall, I'd estimate the size as about the same as the 127

For the amount of use it'll get, I couldn't justify the cost of a more accurate rep (assuming the site would actually send me something, rather than being a scam site ) so when I saw this on the stall, and the price, it was too good an opportunity to pass up I would say that if it gets reasonable wrist time, when funds pick up, I might treat myself to a better rep, but, if I was to do that, it would no longer be the christmas present from my wife... As I've said before, sentimental value is something which features heavily in my collection

My early Christmas present

A watch doesn't need to have a mechanical movement to have sentimental value

Okay, as some of you may have read, I've recently been building an 'outdoors'/survival kit. Much of my inspiration for the kit, (outside of content, which was helpfully advised upon by members of this fair board ) was Stargate Atlantis.

As some of you may recall, much of the 'theme' behind my watch collecting, is movies/TV, and, to that end, I figured I ought to have a similar watch to round out the kit.

Now, a gen Suunto, while not out of my price range (well, if I had any money ) was certainly more than I was prepared to commit to a watch which I knew would get limited wrist-time, so I figured a rep would be the best bet. A quick google search, and I indeed, have tracked down some rep Suuntos which look pretty nice, but are not only from an unknown dealer (like that's ever stopped me before ) but also still of a price, which I could pick up a pre-owned gen on the Bay. Not having any cash at all at the moment, I filed the info away for future reference.

However, while out Christmas shopping today, (A Muslim and a Pagan buying Christmas presents... Some kind of sick cosmic joke there ) my wife and I saw this on a stall in a shopping mall, and she treated me to it

It has absolutely no makers markings on it at all, so is a totally sterile watch. It does not have any of the barometric/GPS/thermometer functions which the Suuntos possess, but, that doesn't bother me for two reasons. One. I would likely never actually use them. Two. Reviews I've read of the Suunto Vector have reported the watch to be, at best, 'unreliable', or, as one dissatisfied reviewer wrote "unsafe", and a product which should be recalled Bearing that in mind, I wasn't particularly bothered about the functions

So, what does this one do?

Well, it tells the time in 12 and 24 modes, has an alarm, a stop-watch, an 'indiglo-style' night light, and most interestingly, Dual power sources. According to the leaflet, when the watch is exposed to light (natural or artificial), it runs on 'solar power', rather than the main lithium battery, which will apparently save about 40% of the battery, thus extending it's lifespan to about 8 years (I'll be interested to see how accurate this is...)

As you can see, it coordinates perfectly with my shoes

And has a strap and buckle damn-near as identical to the gen...

Oh, I nearly forgot to say, it's also water resistant

All that fuss folks make about if their reps might not be water resistant or not, watches which are made of SS and have seals and whatnot to secure the cases, and this little beauty can do that already

How much did this set us back?

The princely sum of

Not at all, although my dad used to be an engineer (tool maker, by title) so I guess my interest with such things comes from him to a degree.

Awesome side by side comparison shots and review

In the books of Ian Fleming, James Bond wears a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, but not many details are given by Fleming which makes it hard to find an exact description of this watch.

In the novel of OHMSS, not only is the watch described as a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, but it is also said to have 'large, luminous numerals'.

The only Rolex of that era which matches that description, is the predecessor of the Submariner. Before it was called a Submariner, the only details printed on the dial were 'Rolex Oyster Perpetual', and it did indeed have numerals rather than 'dots' as indices

Yep ... It's all come too easy for him, that doesn't endear him to everyone, and it seems his fellow drivers too.

He's going out with the singer from the Pussycat Dolls.

And you're right, he appears to be the first manufactured F1 driver... but that couldn't happen without having the ability.

Everyone has to learn to drive...

Oh Yeah!! If I could've voted, Obama would've got my vote

No... the rep subdials are grey as well. It's my studio light exposure and contrasting on the photos that makes them appear black.

Here's a photo outside, which gives better idea of the subdial color. It's also a good size comparison to a 40mm gen GMT. Discovery doesn't wear that big.

In that case, it truly is a stunning replication of the original You're quite right about the size, it really doesn't wear big at all, although the dial itself, is a good size I think the one thing which is really putting me off the watch, (besides the lack of funds )is the lack of lume on the dial (other than the tiny squares above the hour markers) and as visibility is one of my key requirements, I don't think it would fit those needs enough to get regular wear This is definitely a watch I want, but I think one I will have to classify as a 'maybe' with regards actually buying it...

Ah, I wasn't aware that there was a "budget" quartz version.

Indeed, although according to Tony's description, it's an Asian 7750, not a quartz movement... That said, the movement in my 187-based fantasy watch (which I was wearing today) is quartz, and, other than the 'ticking', I can't grumble about its time-keeping

The Watcheden.com one is all wrong. The subdials are too small...so the whole thing looks all squished.

My thoughts exactly, and that's why I hadn't pulled the trigger on one I know I'm fairly tolerant of replication flaws (like a quartz-powered PAM ) but some things, like those dials, just don't look as nice as the gen. In terms of the dial details, and the case, it looks okay, it's just the 'cramped' subdials which spoil it...

You need to do By-Tor's proper version...costs more...but hey, the results speak for themselves:

Definitely. It's a gorgeous watch, every bit the equal of the gen. My one comment, would be that the subdials of the gen are a kind of charcoal grey, and the main dial is a very subtle off-white, bone, perhaps, where the rep appears to be pure black and white. Not a difference which would bother me, but something worth pointing out

Sadly, the cost is prohibitive for me. Both financially, due to my circumstances, but also by my own criteria... I could've bought the gen today for just over

Hi reynolds and teejay,

yes, it is really disappointing to have a watch that just did not have some decent quality control. I understand that these are reps, so I kind of just shrug it off. But before I told the collector to ship it off, I even said, please check and see if the date will align in the window. it just sucked that I waited 3 months for a correct watch to be shipped to me, and in the end it was all for nothing. Well, not nothing entirely. I will sell all 3 GMTs to recoup some costs. I am sure all 3 will sell, as I will move at the price below even the best price by the collectors, and 2 of them were never worn! and even this somewhat faulty ceramic had only less than 1 full day on the wrist.

anybody have any suggestions as to what I should try to get as an replacement?

The thing is though, you shouldn't have to just shrug it off. Yes, they may not be gens, but, neither are they Canal St garbage, and there is at least a basic level of quality which these watches appear to adhere to. Maybe I've just been very lucky in my purchases so may have a skewed perspective, I don't know, but, to my way of thinking, if I asked my dealer to check the date aligned properly, I would expect them to do it, and not expect them to send a watch with a miss-aligning date wheel. That's just arrogant on behalf of the dealer. They know they have your money, and there's not much you can do to recoup it. At the end of the day, we rely on our dealers to play straight with us, and, given that the money we are paying is not rep, I don't think it is too much to ask...

If I had the cash, I'd offer to buy the GMTC2 from you as, with a watch I know would be a 'shelf-dweller', I wouldn't be too concerned about the issues, and it is, from a historic point of view, a watch I would like for my collection, but, sadly, I am completley and utterly flat broke. I literally just spent the last money in my account on a new pair of shoes for the upcoming winter months as I don't have any other suitable footwear, so I'm not in a position to help you out As for suggestions on a replacement, I recall you said you like GMT watches, do you have a Panerai 029a in your collection? I really like mine. Even though it doesn't get much wrist time, it is a favorite of my collections, so I'd certainly recommend it as a watch Best of luck

Fantastic pictorial, thanks for sharing

I think lack of privacy to an extent bugs all famous people. It must be quite sad to be hounded where ever you go.

To be honest, I agree, and I'm sure it can get tedious eventually. But. As before, that is the price someone pays for celebrity status, and, should it all get too much, all they need to do is step out of the limelight...

In my mind I don't think Hamilton is the kind of person to complain/be ungrateful for his status, just watching other interviews and the way he is, he seems to be 'above' that kind of personality (but that's my interpretation of course)

Well, in that article, he was complaining, and very specific. As I mentioned before, maybe he wasn't on a rant, and it might have just been a throwaway comment, but, for him to even say that in interview, it has to be on his mind... Maybe he will come to accept the attention in time as Andy suggested, here's hoping he can I guess it's just hard to change a first impression of someone

I was watching an interesting program a while ago, and the production date was quite old too, Mr Coulthard looked very youthful! They were interviewing a lot of the drivers and asking why they moved abroad to Switzerland/Monaco. It got to Gehard Berger and he said something along the lines of....

'I know everyone has probably told you they come here for the privacy and the views, but I the main reason is tax....' The other drivers all dismissed it, but good old Gehard hit the nail right on the head.

Could well be the case Afterall, there are folks like Sir Sean Connery, and Phil Collins who live as tax exiles, and, in the case of F1 drivers, I can see the logic, afterall, with the international nature of the tracks, the majority of their 'income' is 'earned' overseas, rather in their native countries, so it's only right that it should not be taxed as a whole by their home country.... That's how I see it, at least