TeeJay

My GMT Submariner project...

The parts arrived today, and, thanks to a set of rubber gloves, I was able to open the casebacks. Stripped out the movements and set about swapping the dials... The Sub dial's center hole wasn't wide enough to go over the extra width for the GMT movement, so I got a round file, and started twisting... I got a bit carried away and the hole wound up too large. Scrapped it. I then remembered the spare vintage dial I have from the Silix Rolex, so same procedure, stripped it and gently enlarged the hole, and, removing the locating pins, the dial went over perfectly. A tiny dab of superglue fixed the dial in place, the hands went back on flawlessly, so it was time to replace the movement in the case. This was where things really went wrong, as the crown wouldn't properly engage. The movement had worked after the hands and dial were replaced, so I know there wasn't any glue seeped into the movement, so I'm guessing something's fouled up the keyless works (if that's the right part) and it just won't engage the crown. Oh well, both watches were

Well, we have a resolution on the Rolex. Jay is going to ship a replacement dial, so that takes care of that issue Given that that means I will be keeping this watch, I bought a new leather strap for it this afternoon, and it looks much better than it did on the SS Bracelet

Jay sometimes ships out the wrong stuff and he doesn't like to get it back. He gets around this by making a deal you can't refuse- in the best sense of the term. He will get back to you. Try to be open minded. This is not the high cost end of the rep market, but service is good and so are the watches for the price.

This was kind of a 'make or break' deal, as far as my opinion with Jay, due to the issues I had over my Speedmaster X-33.

Four weeks after placing the order for the Rolex, I hadn't heard anything, so I sent a follow up email over the weekend just asking what was what. When I checked my emails on the monday, there were two emails. One saying that the original shipment had been confiscated by customs and that another attempt would be made, and then a second email with the tracking number. Now, I'd've been more reassured by that if I had received a tracking number for the 'first' shipment... My spider-sense said that that was the first shipment, and that my order had simply been sat on for four weeks. Had I not emailed, would I still be waiting?... Then there is the issue of being sent the wrong item. Impossible for someone who doesn't dropship, one could argue... And the issue of the missing bracelet I paid for... Sure, there was a replacement X-33 in the parcel, but that's something I was expecting anyway. (and redundant, having paid to have my original X-33 repaired, turned out all it needed was a new battery) The stuff I'd ordered and paid for was what I was really after. Another day without an email...

Something to remember about gen Rolexes of the same vintage: there are few left which contain all original parts. Rolex had a policy of aggressively "updating" your watch when returned for service whether you wanted it updated or not. You could end up with a new dial, new hands, new crown, etc. without asking or wanting them. Some of these old gens have been flamed on forums for not being accurate reps.

That's very true, and something I've heard about happening before. I can understand Rolex having a policy that a serviced watch should be cleaned up to look like new, but replacing (potentially vintage) parts (especially without the owner's consent) is frankly, not cool...

Well, if Silix can't/won't help (I've heard a few people received watches from him they didn't order), maybe you could sell your watch to someone on the board and re-order the correct watch? Or maybe arrange some kind of trade? Would love to see some pics. I've been debating getting the "plain" Submariner from Silix without numerals (listed as ROL225), but I'm actually worried I'll be sent the wrong watch and don't want to go through the whole hassle of shipping back and hoping I'll get what I ordered the second time around.

I think I'm going to have consider the possibility that I'm not actually going to get an email, and I'll be left with the watches... If that is the case, even if I was to sell both watches, I wouldn't be re-ordering the correct vintage Rolex as I no longer have confidence in the dealer. It wasn't a watch I desperately wanted, I certainly wouldn't've been wearing it, it was literally only bought as one for the collection, so I might just have to go without...

I find it's best to say upfront to a watchsmith that a watch is a rep. Saves the embarassment of being called out like that. That said, one snooty [censored] was giving me attitude until I said what a VC Overseas retailed at (she clearly hadn't even recognized it) and her attitude immediately changed... Silly [censored], if she's going to be that fickle in her opinions, she ought to at least know the difference between the replicas and the real thing

Still wearing the Planet Ocean 45mm I went back to the watchsmiths, but, due to them shipping the watches to their repair guy, they didn't have the tools 'in house' to either remove the case, or lend me the tools for it, and the repair guy is now on vacation till late september... I wasn't going to leave the watch with them that long, I'll just wear it and tollerate the speck till then, or find another way of opening the caseback... Might be time to invest in some proper watch making tools... Anyway, this is without a doubt the favorite of my collection. Sure, the 2531.80 and 2220.80 are more elegant, and actually go under a shirt cuff, but this watch is just awesome. Large, clear dial, visible hands, awesome design, comfortable strap (might upgrade it to a gen PO strap, not too sure yet), and yet, for all it's size, the watch does not look outlandish or oversized on my wrist, infact, I'd say it's the perfect size... Here's a none-too-clear pic

Thanks for the comments, folks. Indeed, this wasn't purchassed as a watch I intended to wear, but just as an addition to the collection. I knew that I'd have to swap the bezel insert, but had not realized that the bezel itself would be quite as it is. I guess that'll teach me to study the photos more closely. With regards to the bracelet, I'd always intended to replace it, I guess I was just a little taken aback by the details and dimensions of the clasp, I guess I've 'been spoiled' by my own Sub... Oh well. I might take some photos of it tomorrow, but as it's still in it's transit tapes (and will stay that way), I can't really see the point in that... Still waiting on a reply to my email to Silix... Oh well.

I received one today, and after the irritation of receiving the incorrect model had worn off, I had a look at the watch received. The case was noticeably different to those on a contemporary sub, and looked quite nice. The dial, although not having the numerals I wanted, had nice clear printing and was a definite high point. Bezel was noticeably fake as the 'teeth' weren't filed deep enough for a modern sub, or in the 'coin edge' style of the true vintage. The bracelet was an absolute joke, felt flimsy, sharp edges, and the actual dimensions of the clasp were way out... For the price, I suppose it was okay, and, if worn on an aftermarket strap, has the potential to be a very nice watch. I haven't really seen any other reviews of these watches, so wondered what others thought of theirs, or if they were keeping quiet out of politeness? Silix has had an email stating the incorrect model received, that I need the return address, and am willing to pay for the return myself. I'll keep folks informed.

I can't make any promises, as I'm not too sure of how my finances will be friday after next, but if I've got any spare, I'll send it your way.

Awesome photo

I wouldn't say 'bored', as I'll always enjoy watches and the community, but, in terms of purchasses, I have pretty much everything I want for my collection, so probably won't by buying many more in the future. With regards that Panerai, I agree with the consensus. fugly watch, and for a Panerai, that's saying something...

Okay, it's been a while, but I finally have the watch back from my watch smith. The problem with the X-33 (asside from the missing caseback faux-screws) was simply that it needed a new battery. Ironically, Silix threw a replacement in with the vintage Rolex I'd ordered, and that arrived today. Had there not been a bank holiday yesterday, the replacement would have arrived the day after I got it back from being fixed Anyway, the replacement also has a missing faux-screw, and a sticking second hand (another duff battery, methinks) and I was given the wrong Rolex, so they're all going back in the post (That is, the Rolex and the replacement X-33 are going back. I'll be keeping my now functioning one pictured below)

Anyway, here're some better quality pics of the X-33 on it's new strap

You are too modest, TeeJay. The shot of it peeping under your cuff was hot.

I mean this in all seriousness, but aren't all deployants a tad fiddly to remove??

Anyone who has ever worn a Cartier watch knows exactly what I mean...but yeah, I agree.

Hee hee, to be honest, I wouldn't say deployants are fiddly at all, just a push of the buttons or a flick of the safety clasp, and job done... Butterfly clasps, I've always found rather prone to springing open when flexing the hand in, compressing the base of the bracelet between the heel of the palm and the wrist, but that's certainly not a problem the VCO suffers from

Immensely. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Fantastic, that makes it all worth while

This seems the perfect wedding/white dinner jacket watch, which sometimes applies to that most unsociable of men!

It is, absolutley so

Wear it in good darling!! And wristies whenever you can.

Here're two to choose from... I've got to take the Planet Ocean back to the watchsmiths today (they were closed yesterday) as there is a speck of lint under the crystal from when it was regulated, and the back has been screwed down so tight, I can't release it with my (admitedly not professional) tools. I'm really hoping I won't have to leave it for work, or, if they're busy, maybe I could convince them to give me the case wrench and a screwdriver and let me do it myself, it really is a 3 minute job... But, just in case, I'll have the X-33 with me. Here it is with it's new strap (I'm going to order an OEM Omega deployant clasp to replace the existing buckle)

P.S.: Unusually for me, I have worn the PAM 112 even after my last clothes change today. I really really like it, and it sits very "soft" on the wrist, in case anyone out there is halfway interested in getting one, but hesitating because Panerais look big.

Big as maybe, but the base ones are comparatively light!

I'm no Paneristi, but I'd have to agree with you there, they don't wear anywhere near as big as they can appear to. That said, the 45mm Planet Ocean still does not wear as large as a PAM, I guess it's just an optical illusion from the different case shapes.

Indeed, I'd recommend an Omega over a Rolex any day of the week As for your mention of GMT function, if you would actually use it, then yes, go for it. If it wouldn't be a feature you'd be using abroad, it'd be an unnecessary complication, so something the watc could do without.

Gorgeous watch and strap, but the dial is way too busy for my taste... I'll settle with a nice simplistic watch like a Planet Ocean or even the Aqua Terra any day... Awesome find though

I believe that I saw a post stating that the leaking "waterproofed" watch issue was also resolved, months ago.

So why is Teejay continuing his crusade... whilst ignoring these pertinent facts?

Or as he would say, "FACTS"

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

I have my suspicions... but time will tell.

Clive, why do you continue to refuse to accept the facts (or FACTS) which have been presented here against A&J? Are you calling Predfan a liar? Think very carefully before you answer that.

To answer your question, how should I know? I am not promoting any particular dealer on this forum. I have pointed out who I have done business with, and then left people to draw their own conclusions about them.

The whole bottom line here with all this ridiculous BS, and make no mistake this is what this thread is , ridiculous BS, is that two guys are on a campaign to destroy "(very unsuccessfully) a couple of watch merchants, whom they have never, and this is key NEVER purchased one solitary watch, screw, or crown from. They have had ZERO personal experience with these merchants and they base their campaign on heresay and innuendo, which they seem to believe. The point here is why in the world would someone who is not personally affected by the actions of someone else do what they do? Is it an agenda? It is, to an extent, an agenda, it is an agenda of two clowns that have nothing better to do.

And what precicely is BS? As directed to Clive, are you calling Predfan a liar? Are you calling Sony a liar for when they posted a manipulative email Joshua sent them? As I said to Clive, think very carefully before you answer that.

Oh, and to point out something you think is key. No, I have never purchassed anything from Joshua. The manipulative email he sent me was enough to make me wary of his business practices, and then Edge's thread, filled with information from Ziggy, who I suspect knows way more about watches than both of us together, then confirmed my suspicions. So, just so you can get your facts straight, no, I have never purchassed anything from either of them, but do not assume that that means that I have no personal experience with them. I have. I had a hunch, and it was proven right. Nice to see that you can debate a point without resorting to personal insults. Oh wait, you can't...

Ahhhh.......but there may be an agenda. Another dealer that is favored?

Please see my above comment to Clive. I have dealers I prefer to do business with, but, I appreciate that their watches might not be up to the 'standards of perfection' that some people seem obsessed with, so I would not recommend them to anyone who wants a flawless replica, and indeed, have only ever named my dealers when directly questioned about them (privately) or discussed their service in relation to other people's experience. That is not favoring or promoting, that is discussing.

... I think it's quite easy to discover which dealers are best, ... *best, relating to a combo of cost & service,..

You only need to price a few watches with several dealers, then read dealer reviews to get the scent of

the service levels...

I wonder, at the kinds of self induced blindness it would take to boil down the subjects of these threads

related to the factual transgressions that have been unveiled,.. as Total BS ?

Loyalty is a dish best served like sushi,.. Fresh! In other words...

Your personal past experience has nothing to do with how others may have gotten or will be be getting reamed,...

Nor has it any relation to the questions of what is in the best benefit to the community as a whole.

If the fish is stinking,.. don't eat it,.. or at least don't tell others to...

To systematically ignore certain facts and play down others which came to actual theivery,..

to me screams agenda louder than anything that the paranoid do dream up..

Though the agenda would probably be something as simple though ignorant as having a watch or two

in transit, hoping for a better deal, friendship over board, a grudge from a past dispute or a total misreading of

an individual.

Couldn't've said it better myself.

MONDAY

Ladies and Gentlemen -- think what you will about cartels. Talk all you want about ball-busting prices from Bangkok to Hong Kong. Discuss amongst yourselves about why my HBB is so expensive. I don't care! All I know is TEEJAY ROCKS!!!

This generous chap, a gentle soul, is full of goodwill for his fellow man, and in my case, his fellow woman. So when he offered me his amazing, wonderful Vacheron Constantin Overseas, whose review you'll no doubt remember, did I leap at the chance?!? No. I turned him flat down, thinking one day, some day he would use it...and then a few Wrist-checks later I saw our fair Stephane sporting it, and my heart said, gosh, my dad would love this. And just like that, it arrived last week, and the surprise is here to greet him Monday!

TEEJAY, TAKE A BOW!! Mwah!! You are getting a great Christmas Prezzie. Even if I have to hock my straps and bras!

A face only a dad could love? You bet.

He said the watch doesn't do anything for him. Fine and swell. But the VCO has beautiful, classic lines, seen here in its deployant. If only I could wear this...

*Bows*

I'm glad it arrived safe and sound, V, and it definitely looks way better on you than it did on me. Now, I'm not surprized you pointed out the quality of the deployant, as I noted in my review, the parts that make it up, are all first rate, but, would you agree with me that, while you wouldn't worry about the clasp popping open, it is a tad fiddly to open to remove? Glad you're liking it, and I hope your dad is as pleased with it As you pointed out me saying, it did nothing for me, I'm happy it's gone to a good home

As for myself, I'm wearing my 45mm Planet Ocean, and it's not coming off for quite a while

Just played an looked at my gen one and i would say yes aslong as the tonge end is no more than 17.73mm acording to my vernier gauge but i bet you can get an 18 in there as that is what the gen is and not too thick 2,5mm max or it wont close properly hang on i will just try something.

I gust got a gen omega shark skin to fit and close no problems, ok it is an 18/16mm and not a 20/18 but the width would not be a problem by the way the shark is 3.76mm high across the ridges.

Thanks for the pictures, that certainly answers the question about the notched section of a strap being tollerable, how does the other part of the deployant attach? Is it just a spring-bar through where a regular buckle would be attached? I don't think the thickness of the strap would be too much of a problem, as it's a fairly malleable strap, so I'm sure it could be 'convinced' to go into place... (assuming that the 'buckle end' would be compatable with the deployant...

Silly question really, but I was wondering if any one had a leather Omega strap with this deployant clasp on it?

Would it be possible to fit this deployant to a regular 'buckle closing' strap? I've just got a really nice leather strap for my X-33, and it really looks the business, but, because of the length, trying to get the last bit of strap through the keeper is a real b1tch, and I figured a deployant would solve that issue. But according to the Ofrei site, it says the clasp will only fit on specific Omega straps for deployant clasps. Okay, I know that the 'tongue notch' in the strap would show part of the spring pin, but other than that, should a regular strap (in theory) be workable with that clasp? Thanks in advance

Thanks mate...I'll have a read.

No Worries, I know it's a lot to slog through, but it's enlightening...

Hi TeeJay, and thanks for the welcome.

I'm not adverse to a contentious issue....gets the blood running and reminds us we're human!

The comments are allbeit interesting - this is a side I have not experienced...I've been watching, buying from and enjoying watches from Joshua for a good 12 months or more...)probably more..forums are a bit of a time warp..

I must admit however, I haven't seen evidence yet to contradict my convictions.

If this has happened to you, I feel for you...it's a shame to have your trust betrayed, but I shall remain in my position until I see evidence to the contrary.

Again, thanks for the welcome....I've been hanging out at RWG2 (I think?) for a long time - enjoy the crowd, but glad to meet more like-minded (insert obsessed) people.

Cheers,

G

Hi Graman,

No problem at all. Always good to have new people and new experiences to mix things up a bit.

With regard the comments, have you read the comments in both 20+ page threads? Those are pretty clear about the instances of breaches of trust which have occured, as are the ones by Predfan in this particular thread. Indeed, as I've pointed out, the only instance in which my trust has been betrayed by Joshua, was when he told me something, and expected me to believe him. As other emails in Thread 2 have shown, he is not above telling lies to people he thinks are 'too new' to know any better, and will go along with them (see Sony's reposting of a manipulative email Joshua sent him) That's not to say your position is not valid, of course, but there is some pretty compelling evidence of 'less than honorable behaviour'.

Again, no problem at all

Contrary to previous comment, and, thanks to an unexptected call from my watch smith, I am finishing the weekend/beginning the week with my beloved 45mm Planet Ocean

Silix is the only dealer who has a correct replica of the rubber strap for the 45mm Planet Ocean. The rubber straps shipped out on other Planet Oceans, are regular Seamaster straps, and have different shaped notch holes, different size tongue on the buckle, and only feature the words 'Omega Seamaster' on the inside, where the Planet Ocean strap features the words 'Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean'. (Also, I personally consider the PO strap to be charcoal grey rather than black, as shown on Ofrei.com, but others insist that it is actually black ) Best of luck with your purchase

The facts presented in the threads about Joshua and Andrew are, very simplified, 2 simple facts; They lied about 1 particular movement in a BR watch and they are part of a cartel/behind forming a cartel. So what have happened since? Have they, as you put it, continued with their dishonest behaviour? You are making it sound like this is what they do with every watch and everything they sell.

The biggest mistake Andrew/Joshua did back then was not to reply to these threads themselves. The admin team communicated with them and all members who bought the watch they had misrepresented was offered to return the watch for a refund or a discount. (Why is this fact left out of these discussions?) If this had not been done, they would have been removed as dealers back then. This was a decision that was made by the admin team and not just me and that's why they are still here. We all know your opinion and concerns about this, but all the facts are out there for the members to read themselves, so maybe it's time we start discussing other topics.

Oh, and for the record; I have never pruchased or received any watches from either J&A.

I beleieve b16a2 has answered your question already. Another issue to consider, was the recent 'price confusion' over a new HBB model... As for A&J not replying to the threads, they did reply to the threads (certainly in the one started by Edge) and were given extremely short-shrift by the members, and experts such as Ziggy. The fact is, they were caught with their pants down (or rather trying to pull other people's pants down), and rather than holding their hands up, tried to justify their actions. There is no justification for lying to people, or the issues b16a2 raised...

I believe also there was an issue with

3. Selling 'serviced watches' that hadn't been anywhere near their 'swiss trained watchsmiths'

4. Replacing a watch with a cheaper version, and keeping the difference because the buyer was none the wiser.

Precicely. No possible excuses/justifications for those examples, which are not isolated incidents.

My two cents.

Hi all, nice to meet you......just dropped in from another board and discovered a treasure trove of info, and some pretty hot discussion.

Josh & Andrew charge pretty decent prices.

They're also competitive.

If you bought a Pam at a market in (insert city here), and it didn't work, you'd either cut and run, or get annoyed...either way, you have a dead watch.

These guys offer you an alternative.

A return policy.

Customer satisfaction

A sense of security in your business.

Quality reps that you don't have to kill yourself to find, or hope that they work after more than a week or two.

They've found a market that we all are a part of, and are in a position to supply that market.

The cost is perhaps a little higher than the competition in flea markets, or the trash out there that you buy online, but isn't that also a good thing?

These guys are gentlemen - and they do the right thing by their customers - they contribute to this society by supplying you that which you most desire.

I don't want a discount from these guys...they give me what I want when I order from them....I recommend them when I can to people whom I trust, who are as obsessed with horology and particularly watches as I am.

You want a $1200 Brietling with diamonds and garbage all over it?

They'll do it...I pray you have better taste, but if bling's your thing...

They'll even make sure you get decent quality bling for your money..

If you don't like them, don't buy from them.

Personally, I'll buy from them because I don't just get a watch.

I get confidence, service and trust.

I like what they stand for.

If you like to buy garbage, then mod yourself into oblivion, great...if that's what your in to..You're a better person than me....

At the end of the day, it's your choice.

Hi Graman, welcome to the forum

With regards your comment about customer satisfaction, a sense of security in their business, and doing the right thing, I would as if you read every page of these threads, as there are examples where people have not been taken care of, have been refused refunds, have received a watch 'in a condition' other than it was advertized (for whatever reason that may be) and comments from former customers who, while happy with the services they personally received, could not condone the business practices which have been highlighted in the two threads shown in my signature. I only ask as the evidence shown is clear and specific, and I find it hard to understand people thinking that they are such great dealers, all the time that evidence is clear.

Once again, welcome to the jungle. (we've got fun and games... )

Let's make something real clear here...

There already is a committee on RWG...

It is the Admin Team...

Admin

Nanuq

JRaines87

TwoTone

Offshore

Kenberg

jjajh

Wilith

Jonthebhoy

Thor

If your not happy with the way this Forum is run...

Then feel free to leave...

If your not happy with the Dealers here...

Then vote with your wallet...

75% of the post in this Thread are nothing but wasted energy...

And quite frankly - we're getting sick of it...

TT

You're getting sick of it? If that's the case, then maybe you should tell Admin to stop accepting fees from Cartel Dealers and give them their marching orders! I mean seriously, what is the 'management reasoning' behind allowing them to continue to remain? They have been proven to be liars in two threads with over twenty pages each! There are comments like those of Febus and Predfan which show that they are not prepared to do business with them because of their practices towards others, or their actions towards themselves.

As pointed out numerous times, if a new dealer were to do those things, they would be banned for it. Why allow them to remain and behave as they are. The Collector Gallery has this disclaimer:

The Administrator of this forum does not endorse, sponsor or have any interest in the items offered in the at this website. This website is open for free expression by, and under the direct control of the members, in their discretion, as long as they follow the general rules of rwg.cc.

Okay, if the Administor does not endorse these things, then they must view these issues with a dispassionate and unbiassed eye. By allowing dealers who have been proved to be dishonest to remain (for whatever reason) then the implication is that they do endorse them. At the very least, it looks like a case of accepting their fees, and turning a blind eye to their activities. I am sorry that I have had to put this point in the public forum, but every time I have tried to discuss the issue with Admin privately, I have received no reply, so can only feel that my concerns are being ignored.

With regards the content of this specific thread, it was one addressed directly at myself and Slay so we can elaborate on the content of our signatures. I have done that, and then responded to any points directed to me on the issue. I have not entered into any petty bitching with other members, I have kept my replies (bar one comment on TV quality) on topic and purely factual.

Now. With regards a Commitee. I believe Lanikai's suggesting was to have a Commitee which is independant of RWG (or indeed any other group). The moderators here are here to moderate this forum, and a fantastic job they all do of that. They are not, however, here to discuss people's individual complaints or grievances over a deal with a dealer which has gone sour, and, as pointed out to Lanikai, have no power over the dealers to enforce compliance in issues like issuing a replacement or a refund. I may be wrong in my interperetation of Lanikai's intentions, and if so, Lanikai, I apologize for that misinterperetation.

So apologies for having to say this, and with the greatest of respect, but if people are starting to get sick of people (in increasing numbers, as illustrated by this thread) complaining about the behavious of the Cartel, maybe it would be a good idea to actually do something about the Cartel's behaviours, and acting upon the suggestion to add all collector names and urls to the list of the profanity filter so all this forum would be, would be somewhere for people to discuss watches, and leave any enquiries and recommendations of dealers solely in the realms of email and private messaging.

As mentioned above, this is simply me responding to the thread (and the comments within) that Chronus addressed towards myself and Slay. I have said my piece, if Slaw would like to take over fielding questions, that might bring other points to the discussion. I have said all I believe I need to say, and anything further, would be repetition of those points.