TeeJay

I have two 42mm Planet Oceans, the black bezel insert, and the orange bezel insert. Both are nice watches. At first, I really liked the 42mm black, but, after a while, I got irritated of thinking of it as 'a smaller version of James Bond's watch', so I got the 45mm as well, and much prefer it. In terms of straps, I would recommend putting the watch on a rubber strap rather than the SS bracelet (much more comfortable than on SS) and, it also conceals the inside of the lugs, some of which have pilot holes drilled in for a 'guide peg' on the rep rubber strap, and no matter how you look at it, seeing that hole in the case just really spoils the look... In general, I would say that the Planet Ocean is my favorite watch of the moment (although SMPs are more elegant) and on a personal level, prefer the 45mm to 42mm size. In all honesty, the 45mm does not sit as huge on the wrist as one might think...

Looks like Ham & Tee don't care for each other! You guys should take it private and leave the rest of us alone. JL

Not even an issue, Ham just doesn't want to actually adress the points, which are irrefuteable, about the honesty of A&J, and how if someone orders and pay for X, then they expect X to be delivered, not Y, so instead, brought up the wholly irrelevent issue of my age

I can feel a another good PM discussion coming on here Teejay lol

By all means, feel free, amigo

You know Teejay, just to indulge your request, pointing out and making an issue about my taking a wrist shot while driving, and the fact that you plaster this defamatory crap about Josh and Andrew everytime you write one of your insipid posts demonstrates just what a petty, small minded little person you are, and the sad thing about it is that you do not even realize it. get a life. I have nothing more to say to you on this.

Of course you have nothing more to say to me on this issue. There is nothing more you can say to me on this issue, for the simple reason that you cannot counter the points made in the two 20+ page threads that showed that A&J are liars. Once again, for it to be 'defamatory crap, as you put it, it would have to be false, and the fact is, nothing that I or Slay, or indeed any of the people who have criticized A&J over, have said, is false. So, where is the defamation? I know how much you Americans love litigation, but seriously, there has to actually be a case to answer, and in this instance, there is not one, as we have been telling the truth. Hmm, a small-minded person who at least has the sense not to take wrist shots while driving a car in rush-hour traffic. You can say whatever you want about that, but at the end of the day, that act showed the kind of reasoning capabilities you've been blessed with... So petty that I raise this issue to benefit other people and not myself. Interesting interpretation of 'petty'. Tell me something. If you went into a restaurant and ordered food, and received something different to what you ordered, what would you do?

Trying very very hard to stay away from Rolex with this beauty:

Original Case Back

Genuine limited edition case back fitted

Cheers

Stephane

Oh man, what a tricky choice, sure the LE caseback is nice, but what a shame to have to cover such a gorgeous movement...

@TeeJay: Hi TeeJay.

Hi V The Aqua Terra has come off in favor of the SMP, but, it is such a nice watch, I'm pretty tempted to build another for myself... Thanks to confusions at the jewellers, they a ) weren't able to provide quotes for either of the rings, b ) have either lost, or missplaced my fiance's engagement ring (was in to have a new diamond fitted) and c ) the regular staff weren't there, so I couldn't show the AT to the person who's been very interested in the reps I've taken in... Oh well, I'll go in tomorrow and see what results I can get, and maybe even an update on the return date for my Planet Ocean and X-33 (which has an awesome new leather strap waiting for it )

How old are you teejay? 16?

It's on my profile, can't you read? I'm also old enough to know not to try and take photos of a watch while in control of a moving vehicle in rush-hour traffic With people like you on the road, it's no surprise that they're always putting out shows like 'America's Stupidest Drivers' they certainly not in any danger of running out of material.

Oh, and about those points mentioned... Care to address them, rather than trying to deflect the conversation in other directions?

Tony Blair lied a bit about the reasons for going to war in Iraq. I guess the millions killed are ok with that.

Tony Blair deserves to be up in front of the Hague as a war criminal and get the same treatment Saddam got. He knew what he was doing, and should take the consequences for it. At the risk of getting political for a second, it really pisses me off who we don't have the same 'two terms' rule which applies to American Presidents. If we did, we'd've been rid of Blair and his crew ages ago.

In relation to this, those who received cr@ppy movements in their B&Rs purporting to be ETA 2892s are perfectly happy they paid a premium for said ETA movement.

Well, if they're happy that they got totally ripped off, then that's shows them to be fools. In all honesty, I don't think people really care about the movement, and would have bought the movement if it was described as PoS, they just didn't appreciate being sold X, and receiving Y... What really makes me laugh (although despair would be a better term) is the people who think that just because they're happy with things, everyone should be getting in line to grease themselves up and bend over the barrel. I bet they don't even get the courtessy of a 'reach around'

Edit:

I'm glad I waited for the early adopters to reveal the sordid truth about the B&R. Those stamped "screws" also kept me away

Faux screw are just [censored] and unnecessary To be honest, there's something about B&Rs that I just don't like. Well, they look okay, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to wear one... Then again, others don't necessarily like dive watches, so different strokes for different folks there, I guess, and to each his own... Doesn't mean folks shouldn't look out for each other though, afterall, that's the point of being part of a community.

I fail to grasp the sheer and utter stupidity of this campaign to kill business for Andrew and Josh, evidenced by the slanderous sig banners carried by Slay and TeeJay. I made my point earlier and stand by it, but you two knuckleheads need to grow up and find a more worthy issue.

Dude, you take wrist shots while driving your car in moving traffic What makes you think people give a flying Eff You Sea Kay about your opinion?

As pointed out, you might want to look up the definition of 'slander'. While you're at it, look up the definition of 'libel'. Nothing in the sigs is false, so it is not libelous. Moving swiftly on, if you can actually counter the points made above, and in both 20+ page threads, then lets hear it. Show us the way that A&J are just two misunderstood sould who never meant to sell people mislabeled merchandise because they believed The Maker. Please.

No fresh wrist shot I'm afraid, but I've put on my dad's customized Aqua Terra as I'm going to speak to my rep-friendly jewellers on non-watch related business, (estimates on rings) and wanted to show it to them

See the problem is, Josh has never tried to screw me over, and while I'm sure other people have received products and service they were less than pleased with, I haven't. I'll keep buying from both Josh and Andrew. You apparently have a problem with them, so don't buy from Josh or Andrew. But why bother trying to influence MY money?

As I pointed out in my above post, the attitude "I'm happy with them so there!" is not one which benefits everyone in the commmunity, which ultimately, is what people should be doing and looking out for each other. It is not so much a case of trying to influence other people's money, but an attempt to open people's eyes to the situation, which, already has two 20+ page threads devoted to it.

I'm sure there are dealers with better watches, and I'm sure there are dealers that sell similar models cheaper. But I feel secure buying from Josh and Andrew, I know that if I order something, I'll get it.

Please see my above point about people who have paid extra to have watches serviced or waterproofed, but received untouched, base-line factory stock.

If I don't get it, I know I can raise enough of a stink to get it fixed.

Which, as someone else mentioned, will actually involve little more on their part than sending you replacement watch after replacement watch, until you are either satisfied (and stop emailing) or get sick of the situation and give up (and stop emailing) Given the amount of watches they sell, even going through half a dozen 'replacements' means nothing to their profit margins. Either way, the fact that there was a problem at all, shows that there was some rudimentary flaw with the deal which should never have occured.

Hell I could be buying from TTK, who is, in my reading of his posts, the biggest asshat I've encountered on an online forum. But I haven't started threads detailing how if you buy from TTK you're supporting asshatery and harming this community.

Regardless of your opinion of TTK, you cannot deny that he actually participates in the forum of this community, which is something Andrew and Joshua never do (other than to promote themselves or their product) One thing's for sure, I admire TTK's honesty.

Regardless of who you buy from, the ONLY people who benifit from the transaction are the buyer and the seller. Unless you bought your rep from sash recently, then your seller just dropped off the face of the earth, good luck finding a tracking number.

Yes, but the point is, people are thinking they have some kind of 'friendship' with A & J, and some, if they know them on a day to day real world basis, may well. For the people that are simply 'emails and dollars', they are just saying whatever is required to make a sale. That may well be good business, but it is certainly not friendship, and should never be mistaken as thus.

Actually, I have only ever purchassed from one forum dealer, and totally regret doing so. Although they have a good reputation with others, I personally would not recommend them, as their 'operational practices' did not meet my expectations. The only reason I purchassed from them (on two occasions) is that they have stock which other dealers do not carry. Not 'rare', hard to find stuff, per se, just 'obscure'. I tollerated their delays because I wanted the watches (one I am still waiting for) that does not mean however, that I would recommend them on the strength of their service. All my other transactions, have been with dealers not spoken of on the forum, and who others actually scoff at for their products. Sure, they might not be Super Reps, but, I get exactly what I ordered, in the specified time, and which is still of good enough quality to pass the scrutiny of non-watch enthusiasts. That's not to say that 'passing the watch off as real' is important to me, it is not. The point I am illustrating, is that the watches are of a good enough quality that only other watch enthusiasts or a brand specific AD would call them out, and the general public would be oblivious.

So yeah, by all means, use other dealers, that's capitalism. But there really isn't any ground for you guys to stand on when it comes to arguing Josh and Andrew are hurting the community. Might as well start picketing Starbucks, as they charge too much for sub-par coffee, and are hurting the coffee community. PLUS they don't sell their branded coffee beans to the local coffee house, they have a monopoly!

Totally irrelevent strawman. Starbucks might well overcharge (that's the price one pays for 'a brandname') but at least the coffee you receive is the coffee you ordered and paid for. You don't order a hot chocolate with full-fat milk, but get given one with semi-skimmed, or worse, soy milk. Expensive they may be, but they are at least honest in their product, something A&J are not...

Cartel Shmartel Fartel....There is no GD cartel. First of all, Andrew and Josh are best friends for many years who are in the same line of business and share the same contacts. They have a gentlemens agreement to keep their prices the same so as not to compete with angst. As far as the number 88 goes, in Chinese legend, 88 is recognized as the numbers of good business fortune. Nothing clandestine about that. Nothing sinister about that.

I truly wish people with their heads up their arses about Andrew and Josh would get them duly unstuck. They are two hardworking guys who are human and made not horrible mistakes. So they lied a bit? Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect.

So they 'lied a bit'??? WTF kind of defense is that? It doesn't matter if they lied a little, or lied a lot. The fact is they LIED, and that makes them LIARS. If they can't be trusted to tell the 100% truth 100% of the time, then they can't be trusted, period. Honest and honoroable people do not lie at all.

Honestly people who gives two hoots about a "cartel" of two dealers? I've had nothing but excellent service from Josh, and my current order with Andrew is looking like it will be the same great service. They both offer excellent watches with outstanding service. If they have to form a co-op to make more money, so be it. If you think their prices are too high, or don't like their cooperation, buy elsewhere. Just like I don't buy gas at citgo because I'm not a fan of chavez, you can take your money elsewhere. I'm willing to pay a little more to get what I want.

The point which has been made (in this very thread) is that there are other dealers who sell the exact same watches for lower prices. Why pay more to someone when you can buy the exact same thing for less?

Also, as for 'great service', tell that to the people who paid extra to have their watches 'waterproofed' by Joshua, and the watches they received, when actually put in water, leaked like seives. Sure, that's by no means the majority occurence, but, they are by no means rare enough occurences to ignore and put down to one-off manufacturing flaws, but proof that Joshua holds the opinion that if he feels he can get away with pulling [censored] with someone who doesn't know any better, then he will (and has been proven to do so). Is that the kind of guy you seriously want to do business with and think is worthy of defense?

Also, I forgot to say, the 'cartel of two dealers' is actually composed of FOUR dealers. If you'd been paying any attention to the discussions of this issue, then you would know that.

I don't tend to comment on the "cartel" threads. Josh has, and I'm honest here, has always treated me well and offered outstanding service. I speak only from my own experience.

I continue to buy from Josh when I like a certain watch because, in my experience, he stands by what he sells. But the buyer and seller relationship is a personal thing. It is a bit like my stylist. I don't care if others like or hate my stylist. So long as my stylist makes me look good, I'm happy.

J

See, this kind of selfish thinking is what allows them to keep doing what they are doing. On the thread about this Edge started, a lot of people commented that while they personally liked them, they could not condone or ignore their business practices.

This is not about having an "I'm okay, so eff you guys" attitude, because that does not help everyone in the community, it only helps two people: The one buying the product, and the one selling it. Also, as pointed out before, there is no 'buyer and seller relationship'. These people are simply behaving in a friendly manner to get people to buy more of their product. Seriously, think about it. If these guys were really 'friendly' and wanted to 'be friends', they'd be actively participating in the discussions of the forum, not just posting to inform people of website changes (which could be done via closed e-mail to everyone in their contact list) or to highlight their latest product.

TeeJay, I think we will have to agree to disagree then. You make some good points in your statement. However, I think you mistook the quote from the book. I agree with telling it like it is...and not sugar coating things. Yes, people might get their feelings hurt at first....but it could help down the line. What I don't agree with and what I think the watchmaker was saying is.....as an "artist" don't down another artist's work in front of another person. Especially, for financial gain. Honestly, in my profession if I see something wrong I would NEVER down another persons work. Okay I'm rambling now....but my point is....how you say and handle things can make all of the difference. Oh well....to each his own. Aside from the comment I posted from this book....it really is worth the read....especially if you are interested in watchmaking.

Alright, I've got watches to buy and a lot of forum threads to catch up on....take care everyone!

That's fair enough, and while it would certainly be unprofessional to put someone's work down just so 'you' can profit by 'correcting the flaw', yes, totally unprofessional and uncool behaviour. If, however, in whatever line of work, if someone has actually made a mistake, then they need picking up on it, as it a ) could have serious consequences if left unchecked, and b ) is something they need to know about so they can learn from the mistake and not repeat it. If the error in their work is unchecked, they would carry on in blissfull ignorance that their work was below par.

I suspect we are both holding the same opinion, but thinking about two slightly different implications, hense the disparity in ideas.

My 'niche' is Diver's Watches

I appreciate that this issue is resolved, but I just wanted to quickly add something. Having read this quote from taken from a book,

"Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314

I cannot think of any more potentially harmful advice possible. Sure, it's nice to live in a world where everyone gets on with everyone else 100% of the time, and that no one ever has cause to complain about anything, but to be honest, that kind of "rose-tinted" attitude, frankly, makes me want to puke my gizzards up. I view horologists as artisans. Artists, craftsmen. As such, and, particularly if they are performing a professional service and being paid for their time, then their work, just like that of any other artist will be subject to scrutiny, critique, and either praise or criticism. Without refering to any specific situation, I don't feel saying to someone, if dissatisfied with their work "Your work sucks!" is particularly constructive. However, a comment like "Could you take another look at X detail, please?" would be a more subtle way of going about it between client and professional. I would also apply a similar standard, to someone viewing work presented. For example, someone says "Check out my new X Job, it's freaking awesome!", but upon scrutiny, say the work is actually substandard, informing them of that, though it might initially hurt feelings, might give them the opportunity to ask the artist responsible to take another look at the X Job, particularly the Y Details, which otherwise, they might be blissfully unaware of having received a less than perfect service. Sure, as long as they are happy, that is all that matters, but, if they are unaware that Z detail might constitute a poor job, then they are only happy through ignorance, in which case it is only fair they be told. Indeed, with the spirit of the text, deliberately bad-mouthing another artist's work is bad form, but pointing out a legitimate flaw, by providing constructive criticism, it enables the client to truly get the product they want, and, brings the artist's attention to something that they might not have been personally aware of either, so gives them the opportunity to learn and grow as an artist.

Again, that's not with relation to any mentioned scenario, just my .2c reaction to the text in the book...

Hmmm...

I never thought I'd buy a 45mm Planet Ocean, but I did, and absolutley love it.

I never thought I'd buy a Vacheron Constantin Overseas, but I did. That said, it did nothing for me, and it is on its way to its new home as I type...

I never thought I'd buy an Audemars Piguet, but I bought one for a friend's birthday, and, I must admit, I am impressed with it. Knowing my taste is for diver's watches, I don't think I'd actually wear one if I was to buy one for myself, but I am wondering if it's worth getting one purely for the sake of my collection... Knowing it'd never get worn, probably not

TeeJay! Welcome back!

You say you were busy, but the forum has been missing a lot of people due to holidays. Except for oh, maybe one thread at the top of my head, you haven't missed too much.

What it must be like to have you as a friend...you're so generous.

Thanks, V :happy:

Hee hee, you probably wouldn't think I was so generous if you know what it cost Joking asside though, it's for, at the risk of sounding 'grade school', my best friend, and he helped me out quite a bit in the past when we were at college. Having seen it's size, I'm wondering if it might actually be too small for him. I might order a PAM and let him choose, or even have both, depending on how generous I feel when I next see him Strange side note, the AP has the same 'squared off' case as the VC Overseas, but I actually like this one (might be the black dial, might be the bezel, it's not something I can put my finger on) but I wore it today just to 'field test' it, and, I never once had the urge to rip it off and put my SMP back on, which was what happened every time I tried on the VC... Funny old world

Okay, this isn't really mine, as I bought it for a friend for his birthday in November (it arrived saturday, but I've been too busy to get a picture and post it) Nothing spectacular in terms of replication, but still a damn nice watch, and a non watch enthusiast wouldn't have a clue

Sorry, that's pretty crappy pic, here's a better one:

No fresh wrist shots, but I've got the 2531.80 on now, and when I go out with friends tomorrow evening, might swap it for the 2220.80. I haven't quite decided yet...

The funny thing here is that this is basically a promise to lube something that is supposed to be lubed ... and what people get is ... well... they get it without any lube ... .. .. .

This is why women can be somewhat hesitant when it comes to 'backdoor fun'... Oh, we're talking about watches, aren't we... Oh well, either way, when it comes to promises of waterproofing or servicing from dealers, someone's still getting well and trully Effed in the Ay

So seriously, save the dollars, order in the standard watch and then take it for independant testing, or, better yet, just wear it in your swimming pool and see if it leaks.

I am working on the other half if you remember TJ just waiting for amp, he offers a golden goose so if i have to wait it will be worth it!

Ahh yes, can't wait to see how it works out

Corgi... did you ever resolve this issue? I am having an identical issue with one of my watches and have been reading up on movements, contemplating attempting to service it myself (not worth sending it out for a $100 watch, no?)

I had posted my problem along with a video in the Watch Repairs area but on a search today I stumbled upon your nice post here

I spent

Interesting AT mod TeeJay

I switched to the Railmaster - Big Size on Europelli Baseball with Luminova Stitching

Thanks. My original intention was actually to put Planet ocean hands on a Railmaster, but was a little put off by the size of the watch, so felt the AT would be more suitable. (Which itself has a larger than anticipated dial)

I figured the Planet Ocean hands would look 'more uniform' (than the two different shape stock-hands) and, being larger, improve the readability, and I'd say the new hands accomplish both those tasks. The removal of the Seamaster Text was actually because the 'r' of Seamaster got damaged when I was replacing the hands, so it was a case of removing all the lettering so it again, had a uniform, if unorthodox appearance. Glad you approve

Thanks for posting these side-by-side shots, TeeJay. Now I'm even more inclined to pick up a 2220.80 rep. As I've mentioned to you before, I've found one with the 3 o'clock marker and the correct Omega logo (which I know you don't prefer, heh). But I haven't seen any reviews of it online so far, so I'm left debating whether or not to drop the change on it and be the first to review it for others. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. I definitely like the way the wave pattern stands out on the 2220.80 compared to the 2531.80 rep. But will my 2531.80 be jealous of its younger sibling?

Indeed, the one you found really was a very nice rep. I'd be happy with the correct 3 marker, but I just can't stand the joined letters of the Omega text, which is why I prefer this less perfect version as it has printed text instead. With regards the depth of the wave pattern, without comparing two gen SMPs, I wouldn't like to say for sure that they are supposed to be identical, or if the 2220.80 is supposed to have a stronger pattern than the 2531.80 (as in intentional design improvement) The pattern on my 2531.80 is quite noticeable with the naked eye, it just doesn't capture so well on camera... Glad you liked the side-by-side shots though