TeeJay

US$ is down... quality has improved... blah, blah, blah...

Please, someone explain me why chinese dealers as Josh,Andrew or king are selling non crhono ETA reps for + $300/350 when you can buy the exactly same watches at the chinese street markets for $100/120.

Don't even dare to ask the same for chinese movements, as no one would be able to explain it when you can buy them at Guangzhou for $15.

Edit: Although Hambone maybe could give us a good explaination, as it/he/she seems to be part of the cartel.

For the simple reason that they're rip-off merchants, and know that people are too blinkered to accept that, and know that they will keep buying from them.

As for Ham, he isn't part of the Cartel. Just their Number One Shill. Or was, until he recently realized he'd been lied to. At least he had the balls to stand up and apologize.

i havent bought anything but yeh.. i need others cooperation too.. i mean the cartels are ganging up on us.. why cant we reverse it? :S

Simple. People aren't prepared to go to less well known dealers, because the forums have brainwashed them into thinking that only the dealer names listed here, are the only honest dealers around. I say brainwashed, because the proof is there that A&J are liars and rip people off, and that Silix, while sending reasonable product for cheaper, is just a drop-shipper, and sends incorrect/faulty goods. I'm not sure how this mass hypnosis is being achieved, but you're absolutely right, this requires cooperation from everyone, but at the moment, I can't see any signs of current trends reversing.

I wonder where the good Chinese street markets and shops to get these, I was thinking of visiting China next year....maybe I'll just go completely off and get like 10 watches.

With this much money being made hopefully some other places pop up that can provide good service with less markup.

As mentioned, customs would likely confiscate that many watches. Much safer to keep maybe 3 favorite watches on you (one on your wrist, two spares in your baggage) and mail the others home.

The prices these days for me are too expensive. I can afford them, that's not the problem for me. The problem for me is that it has turned from a hobby, that I could throw

OMG. I have to get an LED torch/flash light stat! Only thing is, I don't go to Home Depot or Ace, etc. Will your normal local US supermarket carry them?

@Kollektor: THANKS! I will try that out and buy it on *bay.

For those interested, here is the torch you can buy: Streamlight PROPOLYMER

Not sure if it's of any help, but I've found that I get best results when I charge lume with an LED torch rather than a regular light bulb.

Hey TeeJay!

Long time no see, boyo. Hope you get your Franken done, so you can return to posting about your watches a bit more.

Hi V,

The White Seamaster franken will get done, but possibly not before my vacation to Spain in November, as I have several upcoming birthdays prior to that which require prezzies, and of course, the obligatory holiday spending money

It's trying too hard.

Oh, and it's quartz.

^^^

What he said. I'd rather have a S&W SWAT 45 (built by Luminox)

It's been quite a mixed week for me watch wise. I stated off wearing my the Aqua Terra I customized for my dad, then wednesday, put my 2900.50.91 on for wednesday and this morning, swapped to my 2531.80 at lunchtime, and have now swapped to 'The Patient' to wear tomorrow

A delay in aquiring a decent birthday card has given the Aqua Terra another day on my wrist

It must go in the mail tomorrow though, to arrive in time. (If I sent it too early, the power reserve might run down prior to 'opening', and that would just make opening it that little bit less awesome

Will I make another for myself? I haven't decided yet. I might do something similar, but not identical, as I want this watch to be unique for my dad

Ha,... most of the time I wear my Reps with jeans and t shirt also ... i really can't see paying 300 times what something is really worth .. when you talk cars.. now that's different ...LOL ... I'm sure there are other members who need to dress for "sucsess" so to speak so the high end reps really do well here

It all comes down to :... THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND BOYZ ARE THE PRICE OF THEIR TOY'S...

Indeed, a Real Man, doesn't need an expensive brand name to justify himself, it's the inadequates and juveniles who feel the need to spend the big bucks on what, at the end of the day, are just clothes and watches, to use as status symbols

I second the shoes argument. I've had a pair of Ferragamos and they've withstood the test of time (with regular maintenance) and after five years still look as if they've just stepped out of the cobbler's shop! Buying a pair of $400 shoes can be well worth the investment, since I've been through $100 shoes that have visible wear or crack after the first week of break-in.

Butback to the original topic at hand, how did we go from a watch discussion to our buying habits?

I might have to invest in a set of 'cobbled' shoes. I recently got a custom tailored leather jacket with some inheritance money (a replica of the jacket Tom Cruise wore in Minority Report), and, not only is it a perfect fit, I know I'll get a good ten years worth of wear out of it

Most of the watches I'm after now, are ones I'll have to customize myself.

My Collection:

Omega:

SMP 2531.80 Project Watch (homage to Navy-Issue Tudor) Non-Functional

SMP 2531.80

SMP 2220.80

SMP 'Electric Blue' Functional Parts Donor

Planet Ocean Big Size 2900.50.91

Planet Ocean Pumpkin 2209.50 Non-Functional

Planet Ocean 2901.50.91 Non-Functional

Speedmaster X-33

Rolex:

Submariner

Daytona

'Skeleton Submariner' (awaiting new dial to become 6200)

GMT Submariner aka 'The Patient'

On My Radar:

Audemars Pigeot:

Royal Oak Jumbo

Omega:

White Aqua Terra as Dial donor for 'White Seamaster' project.

GMT 2234.50.00

Panerai:

1950 (as worn by Orlando Bloom in Elizabethtown)

Radiomir with same dial as 112

Poljot:

Aviator Mechanical

Rolex:

GMT Submariner with contemporary dial (Project watch)

GMT Brown and Gold (as worn by Clint Eastwood in Firefox) (Project watch)

Vostok:

Europe K-3 Submarine

Well, to put things in perspective: I acccidentalyy activated these ads after doing some changes to the google ads last week. They stayed online for about 6-7 hours. Those 6-7 hours generated the same revenue as the google ads usually do in 1-2 weeks.

Oh well, can't argue with that

I'm sorry but I need to point out that as stated it is the lack of member upgrades that is forcing our hand here, therefore it is really a bit much for non VIP's to be voicing discontent.

Ken

Even if I was a fully paid up VIP Member, I know that my opinion on certain issues would continue to be ignored, therefore I am not prepared to spend money for a 'privelage' I would not actually receive, and prefer to contribute to the forum via advice, discussion, and when ready, reviews.

On the contrary these ads blew the google ones out of the water in the short 6 to 7 hours that they were displayed, hence the need for a longer test period.

Ken

I have to admit, I would view such activity as 'window shopping' rather than 'shopping with intent'

Although I have no personal objections to the content of the ads, I don't think that they will be of much use as revenue generators, as the majority of posters here (from what I have seen) appear to be people in long-term relationships... Not that there's anything wrong with enjoying the view

Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!

Sorry, got carried away there

As much as I enjoy political and religious debate, such things can indeed spill over into non-related discussions, or used to attack a person out of context. Having seen attempts to create such a 'flame forum' on another forum, I can honestly say that all it resulted in was people posting offensively and slagging each other off, not debating 'inflamatory' topics, so I'd personally suggest it might not be the best thing to incorporate here.

[Edit to add]

I'm here to discuss watches, not debate religion or politics

I never would've expected to get such a negative response from family and friends over this hobby.

My girlfriend hates hearing about the watches. With a grand total of 3 watches + one more planned for my birthday next month, is it really that extreme? She also is of the opinion that she is owed a piece of jewlery now. Maybe so.

My father asked me what I would like for my birthday the other day. I don't want anything. I don't need anything. I said I planned on getting a SFSO if he would like to contribute to that purchase. His response was "how many watches does that make it now?", followed by a "don't you have anything more responsible to spend your money on" pause for effect.

Why am I being put on the defensive? I'm going to be 30 next year. My bills are paid, I am generally a very responsible person. There is no reason for me to attract this kind of negative support.

There are so many other things I could waste a few hundred dollars on in the course of a weekend, and have nothing to show for it come Monday morning besides a nose-bleed or a sunburn and a hangover. I don't spend a fortune on clothing, I drive a moderately priced car. Does it not seem like for every desire, there is double the reason to begrudge yourself of it?

Some of you probably remember that I recently picked up an almost-brand-new, genuine TAG link for $800. The watch retails for $2000 (ok, you guys could probably find it for a bit less, but let me make my point). My family, girlfriend and friends [censored] themselves at the fact that I spent that much on a watch. My father passed up on stealing a SS Submariner for a couple hundred dollars in 1978 because I was just born. You would think he would want me to grab that TAG, but instead it made him pretty standoffish.

I just don't get the negativity towards this hobby. The watches are not replacing meals on the table or the electricity bill. I've never spent much money on myself, and up until recently, it felt really nice to be able to.

Do any of you go through this as well? I can't believe you all have significant others that LOVE seeing you unwrap one heavily taped package after another. Maybe I am in wealthy company here, and it's just not that much of an issue to you all.

I get the same beef from my fiance about my watch collection, although she's quite happy for me to spend money on a watch for her to wear. Actually, that's not quite the truth. On viewing a watch (the HBB Aspen) she wasn't particularly fussed either way if I bought it (for her step-sister) the instant she actually saw it for real, she strapped it on her wrist and it hasn't come off since. Her mum has also previously joked about the amount of watches I have, but has always said they looked nice, and, when I actually showed her them all laid out, she said that a few in particular (the modified Aqua Terra particularly) were really nice, and she then decided she wanted a Rolex for herself, and started browsing the net for something she wanted (which I've said I'll buy her) for her birthday. My fiance's step-dad used to take the [censored] a bit, saying that quartz watches were better, but, since I gave him a Panerai for father's day, he hasn't repeated such comments, and often wears it

I've never lost a watch, and the one time someone tried to mug me (about 5-6 years ago), they wound up with their elbow bending 90 degrees the wrong way and ran away 15 odd years of martial arts training paid off

He's changed URLs yet again

I wonder why

There is a big difference between generic and designer clothes. Go buy a Hugo boss suit sometime and compare the quality. The top brands have better quality control, designers, materials, and factories. Gap is really a bargain bin label.

I will concede the point that it can vary from brand to brand, but Burberry in particular, stock a top identical to one sold in Burtons, but the Burberry one cost ten times as much money. Identical in every detail except for the label sewn in the neck... So yes, although there are indeed some companies which have a higher quality product, equally, there are ones which are selling a generic product with their own label attached.

TJ ..... Nothing drives a nouveu riche person crazier than being treated like the regular schmuck they were before they scooped the lotto

Yes,.. I guess it is true "New Money shows it .. Old money knows it and doesn't have to flaunt it.. more low profile .. because it's not a big deal to them ... it's been in the family for a long time"

Precicely.

To go back on topic, I'm glad Lanikai and TeeJay are in agreement about the nouveaux riches and their watches. Just remember though, to some people, you guys maybe nouveaux riches with your PAMs and lovely 007 Omegas, because there is always some person poorer than you.

I'd have to point out that, being envied/ the object of jealousy by someone with less money does not necessarily make the person nouveu riche... I admit, I'm probably not using the term quite correctly, but personally, I use it to catagorize the 'flash in the pan' celebrities who flaunt their wealth at any opportunity, like rappers who in their videos, wear garish clothes and wave handfulls of cash at the camera. Oh yeah, Mr Rapper, you have money. Whoopdedoo. Keep spending it on iced out Roleys and gold backscratches and by the time you hit retirement age, you'll be back collecting a welfare cheque... As Lanikai said, old money knows it and doesn't have to flaunt it. It's like some friends of mine who I last saw just before my gran died. One brother is a pilot (a week younger than me), the other works in London, I think in investment banking. Both drive good cars, wear sharp clothes, and both had Breitlings on. Even though we hadn't seen each other for a while, and, as children, we were constantly fascinated by each other's watches, and always trying to get something new to show each other, there was no blatant wrist stretches or 'cuff tugs' to flash the Breitlings at all, proof in point that 'old money' doesn't have to flaunt it. Ironically, I was wearing my Omega 2531.80 project watch and happened to be wearing a T Shirt, but again, no flashing of it on my part, and no overt examination from my friends.

I'm getting the last day's wear out of the Aqua Terra I customized for my dad before I mail it off for his birthday friday. Have to admit, I never intended for it to be one I'd wear, but it has become a firm favorite

Good point TJ... as an example .. there is a guy that I run into at the coffee shop I frequent ... and when he see's me he has to bring his wrist "up" so I can "see' what's on it... he has to park his Hummer in the front in the red zone so it can be "seen" .. now unless I'm mistaken his watches are poor quality REPS ... he approached me awhile ago asking if that was a Panerai i had on.. I said yes and shrugged it off .. as "no big deal" .. he then went into a long winded disertation on the fact that he get's his watches from a Beverly Hills dealer that gives him incredible prices ... I think the point I'm making is that most of us don't have this Obsessive hobby so we can brag on what we wear.. but because we are just "crazy mad" about the "ART" of these mechanical beasts .. and know that the prices in the "stuffy stores" are in fact "crazy"

what drives the "posers" crazy is to be "ignored" ... LOL

Thanks, and precicely. We're into watches because we like watches (for whatever reason), not because we want to show off how deep our pockets are... I find that it's only the nouveu riche (ie rappers, actors and other 'flash in the pan' celebrities) who insist on flaunting their wealth. I'm not one who believes that people should save their money, it's their money, they should spend it how they want, but I find it interesting that the people who have inherited wealth, or built themselves up in business (rather than entertainment) tend to be way more conservative in how they display that wealth... Nothing drives a nouveu riche person crazier than being treated like the regular schmuck they were before they scooped the lotto

We found the same source....LOL

Which is precicely why I choose to buy rep watches, and generic clothes. In the case of clothes for sure, they're all made in the same sweatshops, it's just a case of half the batch get's GAP labels, the other half gets BargainBin labels, other than that, no difference whatsoever, so I can't see the point in paying out more for the 'expensive' label.

Of course they're afraid. They know that the majority of people, if they can get an identical, or near identical product for cheaper, will go for the cheaper option. I know that the nouveu riche like to throw money around like confetti (proving what shallow and ultimately tasteless individuals they are) but most people are not going to pay more for something than necessary, so those 'big companies' are indeed living in fear that their business practices, when revealed via replica goods, are going to cost them customers.

In general...

I know there are those who argue that reps are not 100% accurate, and there are those who try and get their reps 100% accurate so they can try and pass them off as genuine to others, but at the end of the day, what does it matter what it costs (other than to a shallow brand-name obsessed elitist) and as with cases where outsourced parts are being used, what difference does it make what factory eventually assembles the parts? The parts all come from the same place... I look at it this way. The watch on my wrist is real. (ie it is a physical object) It tells the time. The dial says 'Omega'. That's good enough for me. So it has an Asian movement in it. So [censored]ing what? Say I aquired a genuine Rolex and had to install a new movement. I wouldn't bust my ass trying to get a Swiss ETA to put in it, I'd put in whatever movement did the job and was easiest and cheapest to aquire. One person would say that it was a genuine Rolex, someone else might equally argue that by not having fully genuine parts, it was no longer genuine. I know that yes, these reps are not made in the factories, and my example is more a Ship of Theseus debate, but at the end of the day, what difference does it make to the owners? They still required assembly, precision parts, calibration, and look good and give pleasure to the person wearing it, so really, other than elitism, what does it matter...

All in all, I'd say to both parties, this is just a case of them getting their comeuppance.

Hublot, like Omega and Rolex, have been found to outsource their part manufacture to China so they can keep down production costs, but still charge high prices to their clients. Good business practice for them, pretty shitty way of stiffing the customers for extra $$s because of a 'Brand Name'. This is precicely the reason why I buy rep watches and generic clothes. Not because I can't afford the 'Brand Name', but because I object to such consumerism and the abuses it leaves one open to. Bearing that in mind, these reps and the trade they take away from Hublot is their comeuppance for their use of outsourcing and artificially high price tags.

Joshua, has been proven to lie to people and to try and manipulate them if he thinks he can get away with it. Being given a C&D notice is his comeuppance for that behaviour. He knew the risks of dealing in reproductions when he got into the business, so had to have been aware that oneday, one of the companies would take notice. This is no different to Disney giving a C&D notice to companies making unlicened Disney merch, or George Lucas issuing a C&D notice to companies making un-licenced replicas of lightsabers.

In all honsty, I don't think anyone would have 'informed' the Hublot folks about Joshua, but think it can be traced back to the idiot who posted their HBB on Timezone and tried to pass if off as gen. Great move there, guy So before anyone wants to accuse or insinuate that I 'told tales', I would like to state that while I am not at all sorry that this has happened to Joshua, I was not in any way responsible for it happening.

I've put the 2900.50.91 back on

Good choice, and great price.

For those who care a bit less about exact replication, there still can be fun in sourcing reps, I mean get your new toy without going bankrupt ! I adhere to this philosophy and thank all people (including you TJ) who made me discover additional sources. :cc_chinese:

Thanks, and no problem Indeed, I find tracking down an elusive piece more fun than just going to an easy source. It's that hunting instinct coming out

Did James Bond ever take his watch off while 'on the job'? Good enough example for me to follow

Joking asside, I almost never take my watch off while wearing it. I will take off a watch on a leather strap if I have a bath/shower/swim, but anything else stays on. Afterall, they're water resistant and designed to be worn under water, so why remove it? Same goes for night-time wear. They have luminous dials, and having it on the wrist saves having to turn on a night light to read the time, or fumbling about on a night stand and knocking things flying. I have never taken my watch off to go to bed, although I did once wake up to find myself undoing the strap on my watch I re-buckled it and went back to sleep