TeeJay

Thanks. I'm wondering if I might've prefered the black dial version, as that's really the only difference I can think of to the AP (well, in general) which I didn't dislike... That said, I think the 'sauage-shaped- hands and markers of the AP are somewhat unique, where the VCO has markers like a Planet Ocean... I'll probably never be able to give a reason why I didn't like the VCO, so probably best to stick with 'to each his own'

As a counter to that point, Tony threw in a free rubber strap for my Planet Ocean, when he was unable to switch between the engraved bracelet of the Orange/pumpkin 45, and the etched bracelet of the black/white 45 I'd ordered. He'd first said he would swap the straps over, but, when they physically were not compatible, he emailed me straight back, and offered the additional strap as compensation, which I thought was a very nice gesture. Twice now, he has attempted to gain watches not normally in his listings for me. One was a VC, the other, a 'silver bezel' SMP (he normally only lists the GMT Version) When the Panerai 111 I receieved had a defective power reserve (cut out after a few hours, so something an inspection would not have revealed), I emailed to ask if I could return it, and exchange it for an Aqua Terra, and his following reply, had the return address, and a reply that the exchange was no problem. As I mentioned in my above post, yes, Tony's watches are by no means 'Super Reps', but I have never had a problem with his service or product (the problem I did have, was one he would not have known about, so I do not hold against him)

Thanks, I wanted to do the review purely on it as 'a watch', rather than regards to it being genuine or replica. Although I'm not personally so keen on the VCO, I quite agree with your opinion that it is a perfect balance between dress and sports wear, and it is indeed a very versatile watch... With regards to a croc strap, I found buying a 24mm leather strap, then cutting notches out of the end, made for a good fit in the VCO case. The one thing I would recommend, is getting a Sharpie in the color of the strap so you can color over the cut ends (which otherwise look terrible) Personal taste asside, it did look very nice on the leather strap Sorry for the delay. The VC Overseas is no longer in my posession as I just couldn't tollerate wearing it. If the Overseas is a design you like, I would suggest also having a look at the Audemars Pigeot Royal Oak. I got one a week ago for my best friend's birthday in a few months, and, although it's a little small for my personal taste, the watch is really nice to wear. Interestingly, it has the same style of case as the VCO, but, when I wore it for a day to 'field test' it, I didn't get the "getitoffgetitoffgetitoff" feeling I had everytime I put on the VCO... Might be because it had a black dial, I'm really not sure, but either way, I'd certainly suggest it for consideration

I'm not on a 'one man campaign', there are plenty of others who feel as I do about A&J. Look at the two 20+ page threads and you'll see plenty of them. I couldn't care less how many satisfied customers A&J have, the fact of the matter, is that they are liars, and people need to be made aware of that so they can make up their own minds. As I pointed out several times, they are not participating in this forum other than to promote themselves, which utterly undermines any kind of 'friendly relationship' people mention. Given the favoring of RepGeek banners, it is pretty clear that they have moved their attentions away from this forum, becuse people are starting to realize the truth about them, and are focussing on another forum. As I have said all along, yes, it's up to people how and where they spend their money, but at the end of the day, why choose to support businessmen who manipulate and lie to people just because you personally are unaffected by their lies? What kind of community spirit is that?

Hi, and welcome. Without pics of the movement, it's hard to really say what the movement is. With regards the sapphire crystal, the term used is synthetic sapphire. This does not mean that it is a fake sapphire, like pleather is fake leather, it means that the sapphire has been produced under lab conditions. A better term would be 'synthesized sapphire'. One way of testing for a sapphire crystal, is putting a droplet of water on the lens. If it spreads out, it is regular mineral glass. If it remains in a uniform shape, then chances are it is sapphire. The only problem with this is things like AR coating and the shape of the crystal can give false results. The only other real way of testing it (without non-invasive professional tools) is to try and scratch the crystal with a pin. If it doesn't scratch, it's sapphire. If it scratches, then it wasn't. But, you then wind up with a scratched crystal. Probably best to just accept the watch 'as is', and just try not to hit the crystal on anything

Hee hee, vanity can be a dangerous thing... To most people, Rolex = Fake. They might recognize a Rolex more than an Omega, but chances are "Is that real?" will be soon uttered... Just doesn't happen with Omegas. I was showing someone my dad's modified Aqua Terra earlier, and pointed out how I'd customized it, and their only comment was "That's a really nice watch..." Try that with a customized Rolex, and you can gaurantee they'd've said "Is that real?" Vanity is one thing, but the flip side of that is shame, and, if you get called out for wearing a Rolex due to vanity, you'll be feeling the shame

I have two 42mm Planet Oceans, the black bezel insert, and the orange bezel insert. Both are nice watches. At first, I really liked the 42mm black, but, after a while, I got irritated of thinking of it as 'a smaller version of James Bond's watch', so I got the 45mm as well, and much prefer it. In terms of straps, I would recommend putting the watch on a rubber strap rather than the SS bracelet (much more comfortable than on SS) and, it also conceals the inside of the lugs, some of which have pilot holes drilled in for a 'guide peg' on the rep rubber strap, and no matter how you look at it, seeing that hole in the case just really spoils the look... In general, I would say that the Planet Ocean is my favorite watch of the moment (although SMPs are more elegant) and on a personal level, prefer the 45mm to 42mm size. In all honesty, the 45mm does not sit as huge on the wrist as one might think...

Not even an issue, Ham just doesn't want to actually adress the points, which are irrefuteable, about the honesty of A&J, and how if someone orders and pay for X, then they expect X to be delivered, not Y, so instead, brought up the wholly irrelevent issue of my age

By all means, feel free, amigo

Of course you have nothing more to say to me on this issue. There is nothing more you can say to me on this issue, for the simple reason that you cannot counter the points made in the two 20+ page threads that showed that A&J are liars. Once again, for it to be 'defamatory crap, as you put it, it would have to be false, and the fact is, nothing that I or Slay, or indeed any of the people who have criticized A&J over, have said, is false. So, where is the defamation? I know how much you Americans love litigation, but seriously, there has to actually be a case to answer, and in this instance, there is not one, as we have been telling the truth. Hmm, a small-minded person who at least has the sense not to take wrist shots while driving a car in rush-hour traffic. You can say whatever you want about that, but at the end of the day, that act showed the kind of reasoning capabilities you've been blessed with... So petty that I raise this issue to benefit other people and not myself. Interesting interpretation of 'petty'. Tell me something. If you went into a restaurant and ordered food, and received something different to what you ordered, what would you do?

Oh man, what a tricky choice, sure the LE caseback is nice, but what a shame to have to cover such a gorgeous movement... Hi V The Aqua Terra has come off in favor of the SMP, but, it is such a nice watch, I'm pretty tempted to build another for myself... Thanks to confusions at the jewellers, they a ) weren't able to provide quotes for either of the rings, b ) have either lost, or missplaced my fiance's engagement ring (was in to have a new diamond fitted) and c ) the regular staff weren't there, so I couldn't show the AT to the person who's been very interested in the reps I've taken in... Oh well, I'll go in tomorrow and see what results I can get, and maybe even an update on the return date for my Planet Ocean and X-33 (which has an awesome new leather strap waiting for it )

It's on my profile, can't you read? I'm also old enough to know not to try and take photos of a watch while in control of a moving vehicle in rush-hour traffic With people like you on the road, it's no surprise that they're always putting out shows like 'America's Stupidest Drivers' they certainly not in any danger of running out of material. Oh, and about those points mentioned... Care to address them, rather than trying to deflect the conversation in other directions?

Tony Blair deserves to be up in front of the Hague as a war criminal and get the same treatment Saddam got. He knew what he was doing, and should take the consequences for it. At the risk of getting political for a second, it really pisses me off who we don't have the same 'two terms' rule which applies to American Presidents. If we did, we'd've been rid of Blair and his crew ages ago. Well, if they're happy that they got totally ripped off, then that's shows them to be fools. In all honesty, I don't think people really care about the movement, and would have bought the movement if it was described as PoS, they just didn't appreciate being sold X, and receiving Y... What really makes me laugh (although despair would be a better term) is the people who think that just because they're happy with things, everyone should be getting in line to grease themselves up and bend over the barrel. I bet they don't even get the courtessy of a 'reach around' Faux screw are just [censored] and unnecessary To be honest, there's something about B&Rs that I just don't like. Well, they look okay, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to wear one... Then again, others don't necessarily like dive watches, so different strokes for different folks there, I guess, and to each his own... Doesn't mean folks shouldn't look out for each other though, afterall, that's the point of being part of a community.

Dude, you take wrist shots while driving your car in moving traffic What makes you think people give a flying Eff You Sea Kay about your opinion? As pointed out, you might want to look up the definition of 'slander'. While you're at it, look up the definition of 'libel'. Nothing in the sigs is false, so it is not libelous. Moving swiftly on, if you can actually counter the points made above, and in both 20+ page threads, then lets hear it. Show us the way that A&J are just two misunderstood sould who never meant to sell people mislabeled merchandise because they believed The Maker. Please.

No fresh wrist shot I'm afraid, but I've put on my dad's customized Aqua Terra as I'm going to speak to my rep-friendly jewellers on non-watch related business, (estimates on rings) and wanted to show it to them

As I pointed out in my above post, the attitude "I'm happy with them so there!" is not one which benefits everyone in the commmunity, which ultimately, is what people should be doing and looking out for each other. It is not so much a case of trying to influence other people's money, but an attempt to open people's eyes to the situation, which, already has two 20+ page threads devoted to it. Please see my above point about people who have paid extra to have watches serviced or waterproofed, but received untouched, base-line factory stock. Which, as someone else mentioned, will actually involve little more on their part than sending you replacement watch after replacement watch, until you are either satisfied (and stop emailing) or get sick of the situation and give up (and stop emailing) Given the amount of watches they sell, even going through half a dozen 'replacements' means nothing to their profit margins. Either way, the fact that there was a problem at all, shows that there was some rudimentary flaw with the deal which should never have occured. Regardless of your opinion of TTK, you cannot deny that he actually participates in the forum of this community, which is something Andrew and Joshua never do (other than to promote themselves or their product) One thing's for sure, I admire TTK's honesty. Yes, but the point is, people are thinking they have some kind of 'friendship' with A & J, and some, if they know them on a day to day real world basis, may well. For the people that are simply 'emails and dollars', they are just saying whatever is required to make a sale. That may well be good business, but it is certainly not friendship, and should never be mistaken as thus. Actually, I have only ever purchassed from one forum dealer, and totally regret doing so. Although they have a good reputation with others, I personally would not recommend them, as their 'operational practices' did not meet my expectations. The only reason I purchassed from them (on two occasions) is that they have stock which other dealers do not carry. Not 'rare', hard to find stuff, per se, just 'obscure'. I tollerated their delays because I wanted the watches (one I am still waiting for) that does not mean however, that I would recommend them on the strength of their service. All my other transactions, have been with dealers not spoken of on the forum, and who others actually scoff at for their products. Sure, they might not be Super Reps, but, I get exactly what I ordered, in the specified time, and which is still of good enough quality to pass the scrutiny of non-watch enthusiasts. That's not to say that 'passing the watch off as real' is important to me, it is not. The point I am illustrating, is that the watches are of a good enough quality that only other watch enthusiasts or a brand specific AD would call them out, and the general public would be oblivious. Totally irrelevent strawman. Starbucks might well overcharge (that's the price one pays for 'a brandname') but at least the coffee you receive is the coffee you ordered and paid for. You don't order a hot chocolate with full-fat milk, but get given one with semi-skimmed, or worse, soy milk. Expensive they may be, but they are at least honest in their product, something A&J are not...

So they 'lied a bit'??? WTF kind of defense is that? It doesn't matter if they lied a little, or lied a lot. The fact is they LIED, and that makes them LIARS. If they can't be trusted to tell the 100% truth 100% of the time, then they can't be trusted, period. Honest and honoroable people do not lie at all.

The point which has been made (in this very thread) is that there are other dealers who sell the exact same watches for lower prices. Why pay more to someone when you can buy the exact same thing for less? Also, as for 'great service', tell that to the people who paid extra to have their watches 'waterproofed' by Joshua, and the watches they received, when actually put in water, leaked like seives. Sure, that's by no means the majority occurence, but, they are by no means rare enough occurences to ignore and put down to one-off manufacturing flaws, but proof that Joshua holds the opinion that if he feels he can get away with pulling [censored] with someone who doesn't know any better, then he will (and has been proven to do so). Is that the kind of guy you seriously want to do business with and think is worthy of defense? Also, I forgot to say, the 'cartel of two dealers' is actually composed of FOUR dealers. If you'd been paying any attention to the discussions of this issue, then you would know that.

See, this kind of selfish thinking is what allows them to keep doing what they are doing. On the thread about this Edge started, a lot of people commented that while they personally liked them, they could not condone or ignore their business practices. This is not about having an "I'm okay, so eff you guys" attitude, because that does not help everyone in the community, it only helps two people: The one buying the product, and the one selling it. Also, as pointed out before, there is no 'buyer and seller relationship'. These people are simply behaving in a friendly manner to get people to buy more of their product. Seriously, think about it. If these guys were really 'friendly' and wanted to 'be friends', they'd be actively participating in the discussions of the forum, not just posting to inform people of website changes (which could be done via closed e-mail to everyone in their contact list) or to highlight their latest product.

That's fair enough, and while it would certainly be unprofessional to put someone's work down just so 'you' can profit by 'correcting the flaw', yes, totally unprofessional and uncool behaviour. If, however, in whatever line of work, if someone has actually made a mistake, then they need picking up on it, as it a ) could have serious consequences if left unchecked, and b ) is something they need to know about so they can learn from the mistake and not repeat it. If the error in their work is unchecked, they would carry on in blissfull ignorance that their work was below par. I suspect we are both holding the same opinion, but thinking about two slightly different implications, hense the disparity in ideas.

My 'niche' is Diver's Watches

I appreciate that this issue is resolved, but I just wanted to quickly add something. Having read this quote from taken from a book, "Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314 I cannot think of any more potentially harmful advice possible. Sure, it's nice to live in a world where everyone gets on with everyone else 100% of the time, and that no one ever has cause to complain about anything, but to be honest, that kind of "rose-tinted" attitude, frankly, makes me want to puke my gizzards up. I view horologists as artisans. Artists, craftsmen. As such, and, particularly if they are performing a professional service and being paid for their time, then their work, just like that of any other artist will be subject to scrutiny, critique, and either praise or criticism. Without refering to any specific situation, I don't feel saying to someone, if dissatisfied with their work "Your work sucks!" is particularly constructive. However, a comment like "Could you take another look at X detail, please?" would be a more subtle way of going about it between client and professional. I would also apply a similar standard, to someone viewing work presented. For example, someone says "Check out my new X Job, it's freaking awesome!", but upon scrutiny, say the work is actually substandard, informing them of that, though it might initially hurt feelings, might give them the opportunity to ask the artist responsible to take another look at the X Job, particularly the Y Details, which otherwise, they might be blissfully unaware of having received a less than perfect service. Sure, as long as they are happy, that is all that matters, but, if they are unaware that Z detail might constitute a poor job, then they are only happy through ignorance, in which case it is only fair they be told. Indeed, with the spirit of the text, deliberately bad-mouthing another artist's work is bad form, but pointing out a legitimate flaw, by providing constructive criticism, it enables the client to truly get the product they want, and, brings the artist's attention to something that they might not have been personally aware of either, so gives them the opportunity to learn and grow as an artist. Again, that's not with relation to any mentioned scenario, just my .2c reaction to the text in the book...

Hmmm... I never thought I'd buy a 45mm Planet Ocean, but I did, and absolutley love it. I never thought I'd buy a Vacheron Constantin Overseas, but I did. That said, it did nothing for me, and it is on its way to its new home as I type... I never thought I'd buy an Audemars Piguet, but I bought one for a friend's birthday, and, I must admit, I am impressed with it. Knowing my taste is for diver's watches, I don't think I'd actually wear one if I was to buy one for myself, but I am wondering if it's worth getting one purely for the sake of my collection... Knowing it'd never get worn, probably not

Thanks, V :happy: Hee hee, you probably wouldn't think I was so generous if you know what it cost Joking asside though, it's for, at the risk of sounding 'grade school', my best friend, and he helped me out quite a bit in the past when we were at college. Having seen it's size, I'm wondering if it might actually be too small for him. I might order a PAM and let him choose, or even have both, depending on how generous I feel when I next see him Strange side note, the AP has the same 'squared off' case as the VC Overseas, but I actually like this one (might be the black dial, might be the bezel, it's not something I can put my finger on) but I wore it today just to 'field test' it, and, I never once had the urge to rip it off and put my SMP back on, which was what happened every time I tried on the VC... Funny old world