Rolexman

Great watch. Looks sweet. Wear it well !!

PS: the 6 o 'clock second hand looks a bit damaged? Could be a reflection though.

Thanks for sharing but.......YOU GOT RIPPED OFF!!!

More than $500 in total for the 2 Cartiers? Both with cheap Asian movements. You state the Calibre has a Swiss movement but one can clearly see the cheap 21j movement through the back. Maybe the watch from Josh has a loud rotor but that's the only watch that is worth the money and has a A7750. You state the AR from the Navi is disappointing but judging from your first pic the Calibre hasn't got AR at all.....

Nice. 40mm?

SuperB!

Thanks for sharing.

Rubbish!

WTF!

Sweeeeeeeet!

Now lower it 3 cm with some new springs. That wil be just perfect for that sporty look without being too 'fast & furious'. Did it on my beemer some years back. It is just enough to remove the space between the wheels and the body.

But if the service (in your example changing oil) is at the same cost as a replacement movement (your motor) the question is, if at any point it would be economic to do preventive service. At least my watchmaker charges around €150.- for servicing an A7750 and that is pretty much what Cousins has it listed for.

Great analysis. It indeed is hard to justify. But IMO so are most mods we do to our reps.

I've noticed that you can have very decent amplitude in one position and have it drop down to unacceptable in a different position. What causes this? Even on a recently serviced but older movement.

Also, what are the odds of something actually breaking rather than just getting gummed up and dirty by not servicing on a timely manner. My guess would be more often than not, it would just require proper cleaning to bring it back into spec.

Amp deviations in different positions can be caused by numerous of things. Some drop is normal in upright positions due to more friction of the pivots in the jewels. Extreme deviations between horizontal and vertical are mostly caused by badly adjusted regulator pins or improper oiling. However the isochronism makes that the amplitude doesn't effect the time keeping. So whether your watch runs at 200 upright and 300 amp flat. The rate should be nearly the same.

Another awesome post that should definitely be pinned!! Thanks!

Thanks mate. I take that as a great compliment.

Yes, very clear and objective post. Thank you!

Here, the experts could chime in. My hunch is that the difference isn't that big.

Cool calculation. What is your occupation?

But you are right. The difference isn't that big. IMO it all comes down to emotions. Knowing that your movement is clean an reliable gives some people piece of mind and provides an extra dimension to owning a replica. The service brings the rep one step closer to a 'genuine' stadium. For some that is important. Like the extra 0.01mm length of a genuine second hand compared to the rep on some watches ....

That would be my thinking i get warning bells when i see movemets with an amplitude below 250

I've had freshly serviced movements that ran at 260. Mainly some 28xx clones and occasionally an A7750. Nothing wrong with that. E.G on an 7750 ETA states an amplitude between 200~310 to be ok.

When it comes to our reps amplitude deviations can be caused by a number of things. Main spring torque, alignment of pallet stones, poising of the hair spring, end shake, barrel wall finishing, magnetism etc. Sometimes you can make some adjustments and get a higher amp but If you don't want to spend 10 hours and up on overhauling and adjusting an Asian movement you just have to live with the fact they are not manufactured up to Swiss standards. It are Asian movements with Asian tolerances and ditto finishing....and these tolerances and finishing can also effect the amplitude. Like I said, amplitude isn't really an indicator for the state the movement is in. With genuine watches, yes. With replica's, no!

I would pick a freshly serviced Asian movement that runs at 260 over a non-serviced one that runs at 310 any day!

The new super clone has the same ETA shock system so that's no tell anymore....

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149097

Very good info.

Did you ever wonder why watch owners only contact the watchmaker after the watch has developed problems or stopped running altogether? There aren't very many owners who think preventative maintenance and send them in before they have issues...

Thanks. I do think that the price of a proper service VS the price of the replica makes it hard to justify for some people. If it's not broken don't fix it (read: spend money on it). That's one way to look at it and I don't blame them.

Mark and excelent explanation I would add that when you get the QC pic the amplitude says more than ring plus minus a few seconds a day. The amplitude will indicate the state of the movement and how the power is getting from the main spring to the escapement

Thanks Andy.

I partially agree with you. Amplitude and the way it (inter)acts with the rest of the movement has sort of become a life quest for me. I found that most of our reps have bone dry main spring barrel walls. This will lead to more torque from the main spring and a good amplitude rating. However it also ads more wear to the main spring bridle and barrel wall which in turn will lead to irregular time keeping en power reserve over time. Also the amplitude rating can be fine on unserviced reps but it could very well be that dirt and over-oiling contaminates the movement over time, and thus effect it's time keeping. The timegrapher picture captures only a moment in time.

On the other hand, properly serviced movements with a greased barrel wall can have a lower amplitude. The grease makes the bridle tend to slip earlier. Thus giving off less torque to the gear train, creating a slightly lower amp. So the paradox is that a serviced movement could have a lower amplitude than a non-serviced movement. But due to the fact that a serviced movement is clean and properly oiled it runs more accurate, is more reliable and far less prone to wear.

So yes, in the normal watch world the amplitude rating indeed says something about the state the movement is in. But in the replica world......

Thanks for the knowledge sharing, much appreciated! How about the time factor, i.e if I own a watch and develop affection for it - does it make life harder for you guys (read, more expensive service) if actions are taken first when time keeping goes worse?

It all depends on the sort of problems that effect the time keeping. Broken parts? gummed up jewels? over oiling? Normally it will only cost more if something is broken.

I regularly get PM's of members asking me whether they should or should not service their movement. I have a standard text that I always copy-paste and thought it would be nice to share it with everyone. Please remember this is my personal opinion. It is based on servicing dozens of movements ranging from handwinds and 28xx series up to the A7750.

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Most of our replica's run accurate straight from the factory. No worries! You will most of the time receive quality check pictures from your dealer that will include a Timegrapher picture. That will show that your watch runs accurate (for now).

In regards to service there are some things to take into account but mainly it is reliability. See, it all depends on how you look at things. In my book there are 3 different versions on how to buy and own a replica.

I want a replica that looks like a genuine and....

a. don't care if it is inferior in quality, optics and reliability. I buy a $30 cheap Chinese replica.

b. uses almost the same quality parts and looks as accurate as possible. I buy a high-end replica.

c. uses almost the same quality parts, looks accurate and is very reliable. I buy a high-end replica and spend some extra money for a service.

Problem is that all of our replica's are assembled in Chinese sweat shops with no or poor quality control. Remember that if the assembling and control was on par with Swiss watches they would never be able to sell these watches at these prices. The people assembling these watches aren't highly trained watchmakers in white coats. It are mostly production-line Chinese workers in dark and dirty rooms that have to spit out watches in a high pace. No time for proper quality control, cleaning off finger prints, following the ETA oiling charts etc.(for example)

The design of most of the Chinese clone/ copy movements are good and on par with the Swiss version (exceptions not taken into account). But it is the assembly and lack in quality control that makes these reps less reliable than it's Swiss counterpart.

So to conclude. It depends on how much you care about reliability. Do you buy a replica not knowing which state the movement is in and take your chances? If it runs you're lucky and if it breaks you'll see if it can be fixed. If not you just buy a new one. Or do you buy a replica and spend some extra bucks to get your movement in top notch condition so it will last you a life time when regularly checked and serviced. Compare it with taking your car in for a service. It gives you the piece of mind of a reliable car, not just a good looking one.

Hope I could contribute

Mark

My one looks pretty good, clear AR, probably not as strong as gen as usual but I haven't seen the gen so can't compare, Andy or Chrod will update on that. Definitely not blue or purple tint as 3717, it's refreshing for a change to have some more clearer AR from the factories. Getting it re AR'd would probably improve the transparency effect, it is slightly 'cloudy' is the only way I could describe it out of the box. It is pretty good though, not a bad attempt! I know this doesn't really help but thought I'd try anyway

Much appreciated my friend. I does ad to the picture in my head

The gen does have a blue hue of some kind if I'm not mistaking.

Thanks for pointing it out!

AR is not great but clear, i could maybe live with this if it was not for the fact that i Visit Uwe every few weeks and i can simply drop it of for his ausome AR so that will proberbly get done as well

I'm trying to make sense of the standard AR quality. Is it clear or does it have a blue tint to it? How good does it reduce reflections? And how does it compare to the gen? Does the gen have double AR and is it as purple as the 3717?

Maybe you or Chrgod can do some AR pics to top this great post of?

Gorgeous watch and terrific write up. Great that you are able to do all of that work yourself

Wow I Love this Dial.

Great work and a fantastic watch

Thanks guys!

I don't get the rep factories. The genuine retails for around 900 euros...

Rotor mod update in post #1

I know this is a really old thread, but i found it on a search for removing my AR coating and wanted to add what I think is some good input.

Nice digging and thanks for sharing V!

Funny how people keep saying "Domi is the best". You're probably a RepGeek member too right?

Great news on the blue AR!!!!

Pearl is worse, bezel engravement is just terrible way too shallow

I feel has the most chance of damaging the dial or hands themselves.

You are right. You need a lot of practice and the right tools. It's probably the most delicate part of an entire service.

Sweet but ins't that crown too big (wide)? At least all the noobs seem to suffer from the 'crown giganticus' syndrome a while back.

Thanks for all the nice comments guys.

Woow great writen and all cool pics i always thought this b-ling was to huge for my skinny ass wrist, how big is it? And with the ss band i think the weight is pretty heavy right? A nice brown leather lie you said would be best!!!

I have a 7,25" wrist and the 44mm fits perfect. I think the weight is just fine. On a calf it is nicely balanced. On SS it is kinda heavy. Don't have a scale so I can't weigh it. IMO you don't wear this watch on SS anyway as it is too bling

Care to share what your bezel mod entails?

The 'B' on the side of the bezel is lasered and has sort of a white sheen to it. It sticks out like a sore thumb. What I've done is give it 800 grid grind and a high polish afterwards. This way the 'B' looks nice and clean and is only visible under certain lighting like the gen.