Craytonic

nope

wow that is a beauty; would love to get a genuine myself.

Luckyyy's actually feels pretty good. It would be easy to slap price points on the categories i gaive A+ - 350-400 A - 275-350 B - ~200 C - ~100 D - ~80-100

Nice additions. I want a white faced pam so bad now...

I think this is why categories are valuable.

weird!

Haha thanks for the obligatory photo. I was waiting on that one I'm not recommending anyone buy anything (or at least I hope I did not). Instead, I am just trying to provide an honest answer to the question "who has the best ___," which I think I have done. Irrespective of price, I think most members would agree a MBW 1680 is better than a $108 sub with an asian movement. I think the problem is you are trying to frame my answer as one to a different question. The question is "who has the best ___." Answers to the question "what sub is the best value," "what sub should I buy," and "how can I get the most for my money" are necessarily different questions and would have different answers. The list you provided is basically the same as mine with the order inverted and categories "c" and "d" lumped together as affordable? I do know I would not recommend an asian 108 sub to anyone when they can have an ETA one for the same price (and on their wrist within a week, most people shipping the cheap-os do not use EMS with tracking, which is particularly important to a first time buyer). I think your sub is from TTK, right? I certainly would not recommend that ordeal to a 1st timer for an asian rep when then can have the ETA one with much less trouble and faster (and have a better movement which will last longer).

http://panama-maps.com/images/mapscomoptim...anama-canal.gif I am confused??? Please explain.

Ended up reading them all at TRC... Not sure about some. 2 donuts a day on average? I no of no one who eats them regularly.

Well he offers it as a regular sub too, without being an LV around the same price.

I'll admit I have no adequate ranking of the C and D quality reps internally. I personally have no interest in them and haven't really researched them (outside of looking at pauls "ultimate sub" and trying to figure out if it was the same as PT's). In my mind they each have their different flaws greater than the other categories so it makes sense to lump them together, just pick the one you can live with and argue it vs the other cheaper watches till your face turns blue. Obviously there will be some outliners but someone else can argue that case - I don't think anything lumped in there will be able to escape to the next higher rung on the ladder. At this point in time, I don't really see the point of the "$108 asian sub" anymore when a sub can be had within 15 dollars of that price with a real ETA movement. Sure it is between 1 to 11 dollars cheaper possibly to get the asian instead of the ETA but if you are that budget conscious you probably need to spend the money on food, not reps. To me, the asian movement sub is a remnant of another period of our collecting, it has been eclipsed by ETA subs for about the same price that have shown up in the last 2-3 months. The marketplace has advanced and served us well. I don't really think a list with all watches priced under 400 is considered watch porn. Many of us, myself included, own one or more of these watches. Furthermore, it attempts to answer the question "who has the best sub" correctly. If you told someone a $108 asian sub was the "best" sub you would be misleading them. Yes they may chose to buy it for budget reasons, etc but they are buying it for those reasons, not because it is the "best" If you want to contribute, per you pointing out there are differences in the C & D category, you could probably rank those as "C+", "C", and "C-" and incorporate that as a very nice contribution to the list that would help buyers looking within those pricepoints! Alternatively, a listing of "what is the best sub for the money" or "what sub is the best value" would address your points (points different from the list I made and points I have no interest in addressing although it seems the direction you want to go).

"86% Dixie. Do you still use Confederate money?"

If you just want durabilty why not buy a g-shock? Much more durable and cheap.

Humm... adding the vintage SD and DW Daytona. Obviously rolex has the best sub. That joke was funny the first 999 times. Price is certainly is consideration, but that is for the buyer to factor in and quality can be ranked seperate. Price is certainly a subjective criteria, whereas quality and accuracy are at least somewhat objective. Obviously an Austin Martin is a better car than a honda civic, although the civic may be the better car for you. This is my ranking with comments. Obviously yours will probably differ, and I would welcome suggestions. I decided to use classes since some are too close of a call to rank A+ (In no Particular Order) ----------------- * MBW/WM 1680 Sub (red or white) - This can become the most accurate with modifications (time and money) - Many prefer to add a genuine Tropic 127 crystal which is straight all the way up, the one installed is not - Dial has no lume on it - Pearl on Bezel is not accurate - Crown Guards are a little bulky - Lug holes need to be drilled out to accomodate genuine springbar * MBW/WM Vintage Seadweller - This can become the most accurate with modifications (time and money) - Might want genuine crystal - Pearl on Bezel is not accurate - Crown Guards are a little bulky - Lug holes need to be drilled out to accomodate genuine springbar A (In no Particular Order) ----------------- * MBW/WM Modern Sub - Incorrect solid bracelet, should be hollow (and gen bracelet probably will not fit) - Laser etching is not as faint as genuine - Pearl on bezel is not accurate - Crown guards a little heavy (but very close) - Needs relume - Great Rehaut depth - Maginification certainly not weak, may be a little too strong * TW Best Classic Sub (Eddie Lee) - Has no laser etching, which is correct - Correct Solid bracelet - Pearl on Bezel is not accurate - Crown Guards a little heavy (but very close) - Needs relume - Great rehaut depth - Lug hole positioning makes it hard/impossible to enlarge for genuine springbar - Correct in that it has lug-holes Non-submariners worthy of an "A" ranking * DW 6263 Paul Neuman Daytona. - VJ 23 movement in it is a piece of [censored] and will need to be replaced - Correct VJ 72 movement is very expensive ($500-1000) - Out of box, the middle subdial does not function - Genuine Tropic 23 crystal is a solid modification B (In no Particular Order) ----------------- * TW Best Modern Sub (Eddie Lee) - Rehaut too shallow - Thus, magnification a little weak - Not as good as "A" category in most areas * Ultimate Sub (Precious Time) - Rehaut too shallow - Thus, magnification a little weak - Not as good as "A" category in most areas C (In no Particular Order) ----------------- ~$100 rep subs - Good bargain, but simply not the quality of "A" category or "B" D (In no Particular Order) ----------------- * Asian Automatic Sub Reps. - You get what you pay for. Crappy movement, etc

Bad thing about making one from a 1680 is, if you use the nato strap like most, you will be able to see the engravings on the lugs and they will be wrong...

I don't think you can create a huge comprehensive grading w/ more than one type of watch in it (i.e. no daytonas to incorporate - I would have to add a new category for randy's watch!).

I'm not sure they are any less accurate since the flaws are different and could find little fault with it the other way. I have given this some thought and really think it is arbitrary to rank within the groups I mentioned. I think more proper would be a grading system. The differences in flaws between the groups make it pointless to rank among them A (In no Particular Order) ----------------- MBW 1680 Sub MBW Modern Sub TW Best Classic Sub B (In no Particular Order) ----------------- TW Best Modern Sub Ultimate Sub C (In no Particular Order) ----------------- ~$100 rep subs D (In no Particular Order) ----------------- Asian Automatic Sub Reps.

Well it certainly could be argued either way on several of my choices. The problem is the top 3 and bottom 3 are grouped very close in my mind and the question is what flaw can you live with and price considerations vs which is better that makes the different answer for anyone. I have been second guessing it in my mind all day However I think there is a clear line that can be drawn betwen those two groups (and possibly a final third group of the $100 cheapies).

You should distinguish between TW Best Classic and TW Best Modern. TW Best Classic is of very high quality; basically a MBW with lug-holes and no etched crown (which is correct). For me, in terms of accuracy: 1) MBW Vintage 1680 Sub 2) TW Best Classic Sub 2) MBW 16610 (modern, no lug holes) Sub 3) TW Best Modern Sub 4) Ultimate Sub 5) Others Subs follow

Great improvement; Cartier is underrated here.

Aren't all the 5517s from the same factory?

Ewww its synthol man. That guy is a disgusting bag-o-oil

Can't have enough... now I need the 113. Don't undestand why that one isn't more popular.

luminor, except for rose gold radiomir

The gen straps are worth it if that is what you want.