Agrippa Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Great work and a very interesting read! Looking forward to the concluding chapter. So far the conclusions are pretty much what I would have bet on beforehand. I guess the practical implications are slight or non-existant, but it would still have been nice to get what we've paid for I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 A truely classic thread! Thanks! It would be interesting to learn the relative hardnesses of the steels you've identified: My uneducated guess is that the cost and availability of the metal is a secondary concern for the Chinese. I bet their chief concern is using the kind of steel that provides the longest tool life for whatever kind of machining theyre doing, which probably has a bigger impact on their bottom line than the cost of the steel. As far as the DSSD goes, i would love to see the test results if only to congratulate the dealers on a new standard of deceptive marketing genius...if the steel is actually random 3-whatever, it means that J&A took the time to research what kind of cheap steel looks like Rolex steel so they could lie about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Update #3....Hope you enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to work on this for us! I appreciate your efforts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Another excellent addition to the saga! One thing though - do these findings have any practial real-world implications for those of us who don't try to drill into our reps, but just wear them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to work on this for us! I appreciate your efforts I actually put this in my schedule, the work on anyway. Glad you enjoy it! Another excellent addition to the saga! One thing though - do these findings have any practial real-world implications for those of us who don't try to drill into our reps, but just wear them? Not unless you are going to expose your watch to a high chloride environment and some deep diving, you will not see the difference. Basically 316L has a higher resistance to chemical attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks mate, that's what I assumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Very fascinating read BM! Thanks for sharing that info with us! So does that mean we should all be getting better discounts from the dealers for selling something not as advertised?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 So, NO 316L at all? Price of reps should drop then, or descriptions changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 So, NO 316L at all? Price of reps should drop then, or descriptions changed. 316 was in the clasp, but that was all. You have to remember that this was just based off my watch. Could be different for someone else exact piece. It is not far fetched, and I would bet any money that the materials differs at times. These manufactures are using what ever they can get their hands on at that time. This week you could buy a BCE for a dealer and it is made from 200 series stainless, 3 months later you buy the same piece from the same dealer it could very well be 440 or 904. The is no real way of knowing. It could be a hodge-podge of scrape garbage laying around. As I mentioned 304 is the most common grade of SS available and used in all of industry. 316 is the second most used having the addition of Molybdenum to help fight corrosion. The "L" variant just has extremely lower carbon content to it making it better for manufacturing, welding and even more corrosion resistant, however it makes is slightly weaker then 316. There is even a LN variant that has more nitrogen for lower tensile strength but retains the corrosion resistance. The dealers are just claiming what most Gen watch manufactures use, that being 316L, just to say "Hey, like the Gens we use 316L too and are every bit as good." Even with this so called 316F (SS hopped up on Phosphorus and Sulfur.) variant out now. It very well could be 316F, it could also be a heat treat process that they apply to what ever they have to give it that sheen close to 904. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ok I'm missing something. Both update #2 and #3 I see no updates..... Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 He's updating the very first post, so you can find everything in one place Vs searching through the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 He's updating the very first post, so you can find everything in one place Vs searching through the thread. Thank ya kindly. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool Mike. Or Rob. You guys are the Ralph Naders of the rep world. I bet there's a million dollar contract out on you now Well, this was great, and of course it wasn't Mike's intent to expose anything for any other reason(s) than scientific v marketing curiosity, in the final analysis? Is this going to deter anyone here with regard to buying a new watch with touted 316L? Wouldn't me. 'lanikai' 's reviews beat the science. I mean if 'Little White Lies' didn't, well................ Thanks Mike. This is 'big' in the archive dept. Truely the newest revelation since 'Camieu' did the gold tests on the old RWG (too bad that never came over from the other board). But you know what I'd like? For you to run the same battery on a gen Rolex. 904/440 my ass! Maybe JoJo, Stephane, or Freddy have a donor watch? I bet Bob does the 'spark' test every week-end just wearing his 1675 into the wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Makes me come back for more.... Grateful for BM for taking the time & effort in compiling all these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool Mike. Or Rob. You guys are the Ralph Naders of the rep world. I bet there's a million dollar contract out on you now Well, this was great, and of course it wasn't Mike's intent to expose anything for any other reason(s) than scientific v marketing curiosity, in the final analysis? Is this going to deter anyone here with regard to buying a new watch with touted 316L? Wouldn't me. 'lanikai' 's reviews beat the science. I mean if 'Little White Lies' didn't, well................ Thanks Mike. This is 'big' in the archive dept. Truely the newest revelation since 'Camieu' did the gold tests on the old RWG (too bad that never came over from the other board). But you know what I'd like? For you to run the same battery on a gen Rolex. 904/440 my ass! Maybe JoJo, Stephane, or Freddy have a donor watch? I bet Bob does the 'spark' test every week-end just wearing his 1675 into the wilderness. Get me a piece from a Gen Rolex and I would be more then happy to take a run at it. However, I think you would find the they due use 904. Could you imaging the fall back on them if it was ever discovered they used some other type of Stainless steel? 904 from a practicality stand point is nothing special. It is jammed packed full of Chromium, Nickel, Molybdenum and a splash of Copper, making it the best protection for high chloride and acidic environments. So unless you are a saturation diver or swimming in sulfuric acid, for all practical purposes, 904L would serve most of us no good in our time pieces. Throw nitric acid into the mix and you would much rather have 304L. If I could engineer my own time piece out of any material I could choose. I would chose a 440C. 440C SS has slightly less resistance to chlorides as 304, however the strength and hardness is beyond comparison! Scratches, marks, fine swirls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ok I'm missing something. Both update #2 and #3 I see no updates..... Ken it is all edited into the first post mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 They're lying to us? Say it idnt so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Replica watch, replica metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottoddy Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Fantastic post. That might explain the grayish junk the watches sometimes leave on my wrists during hot weather. My lower quality gens don't do that. It ain't dirt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Fantastic Thread,thanks for that! Maybe you get one of the newer Cases to see what we get. I think most of us do not believe what the dealer claimed on their Watches So it's not a suprise for me. Another " Withe Lies Story" Thank u Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Fantastic post. That might explain the grayish junk the watches sometimes leave on my wrists during hot weather. My lower quality gens don't do that. It ain't dirt! It's probably metal dust and polishing compound trapped in the links! Your sweat leeches it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altralazer Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Great report, very well described how to check, what kind of material it is! So, NO 316L at all? Price of reps should drop then, or descriptions changed. Although 316L can be purchased all over China the steel is imported as Chinese steel doesn't come in this grading - Mike please correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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