Why do some have a problem ?

[lanikai]

I figure it best to start another thread to the "Free or Not", .. going on and added to by some that question RWG's validity in have to seek donations to keep the forum solvent.

A member who states he is more into gens. now and only visits here twice a year seems to have a problem with the cost of keeping this forum online..

To these members I say.. "Why not start your own Forum?"

if your so bent on it being totally free.. why not do the deal and get something else started where no one has to donate a penny?? Why whine about it here, when so many others are busting to keep us here so ALL can benefit ??

There are those who have given back with countless hours of reviews, tutorial,.. advise to Noobs so they won't make the same mistakes which cost money that the vets have already been through..and they have been doing this since day one..

and the forum has grown .. many have made buys that they wouldn't have if the forum were not here..

It is usually the same members who pony up for raffles.. donate without announcing it,.. to all of you I say "thank you".. for being here.. to those who feel that it's somebody else' problem.. I say "thank you for being here"..

the reality is we NEED funds.. to keep this board going...without it we could just email each other..or go genuine .. we all know how much fun and knowledge "shared" are on foras like those...

I'm sure I'll hear a lot of semantics.. from members that don't usually post..maybe twice a year

I do take interest in threads that critique the intentions of the people that do the actual work.. and not for money .. that keep RWG flowing.. so if this offends the few that view RWG as, "FREE".... and don't like the things being done to keep it free for all... start your own forum..

Lani

[deniz21]

im totaly with this statement, i was one week here i gues and then i upgradet, and its worth every single penny, cause if you like watches this is the very best place to be i asked so many noob questions, but there was everytime someone who helped me out

and the awsome reviews and pics here.. come one where you find something like this somewhere else?

and upgrading is the real thing when you stay here, to keep this all alive

and its realy a pleasure to be part of this great community here

best regards Denz, thats my new nickname from oversee

[maxman]

im totaly with this statement, i was one week here i gues and then i upgradet, and its worth every single penny, cause if you like watches this is the very best place to be i asked so many noob questions, but there was everytime someone who helped me out

and the awsome reviews and pics here.. come one where you find something like this somewhere else?

and upgrading is the real thing when you stay here, to keep this all alive

and its realy a pleasure to be part of this great community here

best regards Denz, thats my new nickname from oversee

U the man Denz

[TeeJay]

The assistance and guidance I have received since joining this forum, not to mention the generous gifts, and offers of help, way outweighs the cost of supporter status. I remember I used to object to to funding requests, but that was only because I had not truly seen what this forum does for people. I do what I can to support the forum, I just wish I could do more. Many clubs have membership fees and subscriptions, and probably do not provide their members with anywhere near the level of support and feeling of community, as this forum does.

[hiker01]

I can't believe that those who are into GENS (meaning they have the funds koz they could AFFORD da GENS) are the ones complaining about supporting RWG....this place.........I say: "AMEN to Lani!"

You all are always welcome to visit and browse, but please quit whining~! and nobody is forcing any member to "pony up or donate"! It's more of how much value you put into this place and how you feel you could contribute......wether it be financial or contribute your knowledge and skills! If you can't, you're still welcome to stay, but please respect the place!

My 2 cents.....pennies......EU, whatever!

ViVa RWG BanZai RWG Mabuhay RWG!

[gioarmani]

The problem is the cost paying for those servers. Fax Guangzhou and see if we can't get some rep servers...

[pollux1]

I don't have much to offer except my member fee, i've gotten a hell of a lot more back from this community in spirit alone. I'm more than happy to pay to keep the place running.

[Demsey]

I remember I used to object to to funding requests, but that was only because I had not truly seen what this forum does for people.

Pin this.

I don't have much to offer except my member fee

Not true!

Some may say this is going to be a redundant thread, but if it dilutes Doc's "Free" thread then I'm all for it. 9 pages? That's not fair. To 'P4GTR'. Who tries so hard, tries anything, to get at least 3 deep.

[mikellem]

I can only Thank Lani and Hike for the serious reality

that we constantly have to deal with...Except we shouldn't

have too!

Lani,, +1

Hike,, +1

Thanks Guys,,,

[Ztech]

Like a good buddy of mine used to say, "I don't give all my money to the bars because I'm an alcoholic. I give them all my money so I have a place to go".

I wouldn't want to picture a world where we don't have a place like this to just hang out, meet great people, learn new things, contribute and enjoy this addiction umm... I mean hobby.

[Ronin]

What amazes me is that for the cost of a couple of Starbucks a month you can be a Platinum Supporter here.

I support those that support me or "my neighborhood" which I consider RWG an extension of. Case in point, there is a little local Wine Store in my neighborhood that is struggling to compete with the big box stores. Sure I can save a few bucks a bottle down the street, but that is not the point. I want to support the little guy and keep his lights on too.... Sorry to digress.

[9postguy]

I just joined this month. I bought my first rep today:

(1) following advice I've read this past week here;

(2) from a dealer here;

(3) having read a By-Tor review here.

I feel indebted already (but I'll know for sure when my watch arrives - lol).

I'll contribute as soon as I can.

And thanks for offering this community of common interests.

[lanikai]

Pin this.

Some may say this is going to be a redundant thread, but if it dilutes Doc's "Free" thread then I'm all for it. 9 pages? That's not fair. To 'P4GTR'. Who tries so hard, tries anything, to get at least 3 deep.

Agree 100....

members need to view both sides of the proverbial coin.. and for those that toil to make this forum self sufficient .. this thread for the Noob serves a purpose..

Years ago I took charge of a large group of .... let's say organized lobbyist.. because the director was using donated funds for his personal expenses outside of the organization .. had it not been for that fact .. I would of minded my business and kept on doing what I was doing just to contribute to the cause..

This is NOT the case here.. that is why I am so passionate about this community...

the fact that we were and are making good progress to be totally self sufficient and not have to solicited funds from the same group of peeps says a lot.

We don't need to take 10 steps backwards with members that whine about the issues that need to be addressed.

has it ever occurred to these members that they may be actually harming the community by giving Noobs the impression that something is amiss ??.. and they shouldn't have to donate a penny for what we have here??

Sorry doc.. this is not personally aimed at you.. but I need to voice this concern as it has taken too much blood sweat and tears for it to go by the way side and ignore..

This is not the first time issues like these will be brought up.. and it certainly won't be the last..

but I will respond in kind every single time...

look at the line up in this post..

Gio .. countless reviews and tutorials..it does not end there... a supporter to boot.

TJ ... always ready and willing to aid the community with his graphics and energy.. never once saying he was too busy.

Denz a new member that has fit right in with the community..our kid brotha..

Hike.. been around awhile to know what's going on and contributes awesome pics .. that he probably learned to do because of RWG

Maxman; Pollux .. both solid members of the community

Mikellem ... always supporting the community ..always has RWG in his heart.

Dems.. one of Our Elder Statesman ..... without members like Dems.. the history of RWG would be lost..

P4.. we go back a ways and have been through much down turns ..your still contributing .. thought we lost him for awhile.. he rebounded..

that is what this community is.. supporter or not.. we are here to support all..

nuff said.. I gotta go take pics of my UN Maxi diver that just landed so Noobs will have another choice..

have a brilliant week.. for those that observe Christmas.. it's crazy nutz out on the roads.. Malama Pono.. take good care..

AC/Lani

[dolphinfreindly]

well I didnt feel guilty about not supporting, however as the forum is growing and I am learning and getting more from this hobby I now feel that I should. I get lots and lots of info here what with the reviews, tutorials and just general advice, I for one would think it would be a very dull day if I couldnt log in to RWG!

Big thanks to all the admins and mods for keeping this place so straight and honest!!

cheers everyone, happy christmas and a prosperous new year to you all!

check out my new orange....

[Demsey]

check out my new orange....

Looks good on you. Ever consider a pumpkin UPO?

[dolphinfreindly]

thanks Demsey, however check my sig, its there, not UPO but PO pumpkin.

[Demsey]

check my sig,

Sigs? Who notices sigs?

<edit> And it would be remiss of me not to interject here on the OT; I would just hate for folk to get wires crossed in the name of misunderstanding and interpretation of mere rhetoric.

I had composed a PM to Doc, whom I've known and respected a long, long time from the old defunct RWG, and am indebted to him for registering there and giving the Flying Dutchman a touch of raison d'être and class in the vein of 'Omni', 'Ryannon', 'johnnyboy', 'Rolexadict', 'greg_r', 'Trailboss', 'fakemaster' and a looooooong list of others who just tried to make something out of very little, uhhh, yeah, but I deleted the PM as, in that medium, was just gossip(y).

As I mentioned in that other thread; the original premise of 'jumping on noobs' to pressure them into supporting the forum came out of left field. To me. If it exists I missed it. Other than the mention of Oren, there have been no links to threads supporting the notion. Just some hard feelings relayed from nameless members posting on other boards. That is a non-entity I won't address unless 'they' post here themselves and can link and support their specific situation(s).

For us, and especially 'lanikai', to expend personal resources on the subject, that could be focused elsewhere, is a waste of spirit. It's chasing shadows. Our plates are full, or could be filled with bigger fish to fry.

If Doc felt compelled to bring issue, then it must have some validity. I'll personally vouch for that much even tho' it went over my head. It got me thinking and I'll carry it as I troll along RWG. And he has his forum. 10 pages at last glance with some very good and thoughtful replies. It's certainly worth discussing even if only to verify the membership's commitment or stir solidarity. Raise awareness through communication.

I'll quote it one more time and then step out of all this;

I remember I used to object to to funding requests, but that was only because I had not truly seen what this forum does for people.

From where I stand, I'm not sure anything more succinct on the matter could be said.

[lanikai]

I just joined this month. I bought my first rep today:

(1) following advice I've read this past week here;

(2) from a dealer here;

(3) having read a By-Tor review here.

I feel indebted already (but I'll know for sure when my watch arrives - lol).

I'll contribute as soon as I can.

And thanks for offering this community of common interests.

No need to feel indebted Jack.. but you will evolve with this community, your knowledge will grow,, and someday Noobs will be PM'ing you for advise.. just pass on what was past on to you.. that is what this community is all about..

yeah Dems.. I pick and choose the sigs I remember fo sure...

[krpster]

I too feel indebted to RWG. But that was not my main motivation for make a monetary donation.

It was here that my true passion for watches was able to flourish. I had always loved watches but alas I could never really afford to get into the hobby with any great depth. Then I stumbled across RWG.

I had only been here for a short while before I picked up my first piece...and that was the begining of the end (if you know what I mean). Shortly there after I upgraded as I felt I should give back to the community that helped me get started. That way the next blossoming horologist that stumbles in here will benefit in the same way that I did. Now that I have learned some things I feel that I can contribute in other ways too. Took a stab at my first "review" and thought it came out OK. And hey...if it even helps out one guy making a decision....it was worth it. Looking forward to the next.

In the end each must choose in life what they will support based on what matters to them most. For me, RWG is worth that support!

[Josetann]

I figure it best to start another thread to the "Free or Not", .. going on and added to by some that question RWG's validity in have to seek donations to keep the forum solvent.

A member who states he is more into gens. now and only visits here twice a year seems to have a problem with the cost of keeping this forum online..

I think you took what I said out of context. I merely stated that we don't know the true costs of keeping this site up, and that it was likely more than a cheap plan that most of us could get from a webhost (because RWG needs to use an overseas provider, and may have other costs due to the nature of what goes on here).

To these members I say.. "Why not start your own Forum?"

I've started more than one, and still have one very popular one. All free. I did put ads up, and if anyone complained, oh well.

Actually, that's an idea. Just display ads to the "free" members. Anyone who donates gets the ads removed. Now you're making money off all the members in one way or another.

I'll sum up my feelings. A person is allowed to come to the forum, register, and participate without paying a penny. They should not feel bad if they don't donate. If RWG is that hard up for money that free-loaders can't be tolerated, then make all members pay for a membership to participate (or contribute in other ways). I would hope this forum doesn't go pay-only, but that's not my decision. I'd live.

Sure, $30/yr isn't going to break the bank for most here. But what if we had to donate $30/yr to every forum we found as useful? That'd add up to a big chunk of change pretty quickly. And on a personal note...while I "only" buy gens now, we're talking two total (maybe a third if we have a third kid, but that'd be the limit). I have a feeling many here have paid much more on their ever-growing rep collections (I was able to fill up an eight-watch winder plus some in short time before I had to decide on just one).

I'm worried what this'll do to the forum. People will start (or probably have been doing so for a while) to not help out any non-donators. Things will be said...people will leave...etc. Come on guys, I'm gonna need you all in 20-30 years. Can't we all get along for another 2-3 decades?

[lanikai]

.

I'm worried what this'll do to the forum. People will start (or probably have been doing so for a while) to not help out any non-donators. Things will be said...people will leave...etc. Come on guys, I'm gonna need you all in 20-30 years. Can't we all get along for another 2-3 decades?

Well since you only check in twice a year.. (in your own words).. you would not know what some do for all.. reviewers spend hours sometimes day's researching.. shooting pics.. answering PM's..and NO ONE ignores any questions or issues.. their have been some that .. come here play us for all it's worth and leave.. there are others who make this home..

but no one.. absolutely no one is "left behind".. I'm registered at the gen foras also... very different atmosphere there.. I was pretty much ignored and made fun of at a gen forum where I posted a rare gen and asked for some help in sourcing a part.. guess where I sourced that part??? .. here.. and posted the pics of the finished piece on the otha place..

There is more knowledge here regarding gen movements and members like Jojo probably have a wider collection of Vintage gens than most on the Rolex Forums..

And there is one thing that no other place on the net can replicate.. that is the Heart of RWG.. and that is the Community .. whom the members make up.. All members..Ironic isn't it.. we are a replica form but our hearts are more genuine than the gen foras.. BAR NONE

so what I suggest before your fingers say another word.. join us for awhile.. and see for yourself what this community is about.. otherwise you may jump to conclusions over members who choose to make donations an issue.

AC/Lani

Edit add: I am guilty of gifting parts to those that are supporters.. that is "my" prerequisite to opening my watch boxes.. giving "back" to those who give also.. and since it's my parts .. this is what I choose to do.. I can make money selling them .. sure.. but this is how I choose to give back to members and in so doing ...thanking them for supporting us all..and pulling their own weight..

[Josetann]

Well since you only check in twice a year.. (in your own words).. you would not know what some do for all.. reviewers spend hours sometimes day's researching.. shooting pics.. answering PM's..and NO ONE ignores any questions or issues.. ther have been some that .. come here play us for all it's worth and leave.. there are others who make this home..

but no one.. absolutely no one is "left behind".. I'm registered at the gen foras also... very different atmosphere there.. I was pretty much ignored and made fun of at a gen forum where I posted a rare gen and asked for some help in sourcing a part.. guess where I sourced that part??? .. here.. and posted the pics of the finished piece on the otha place..

There is more knowledge here regarding gen movements and members like Jojo probably have a wider collection of Vintage gens than most on the Rolex Forums..

And there is one thing that no other place on the net can replicate.. that is the Heart of RWG.. and that is the Community .. whom the members make up.. All members..Ironic isn't it.. we are a replica form but our hearts are more genuine than the gen foras.. BAR NONE

so what I suggest before your fingers say another word.. join us for awhile.. and see for yourself what this community is about.. otherwise you may jump to conclusions over members who choose to make donations an issue.

AC/Lani

But why are members making donations an issue? Are the donating members upset that not everyone donates? Do they prefer a closed forum where you must pay to play? I mean, aren't there some parts of this forum that are only available to paying members? If so, then that seems fair to me. Someone comes by, joins the forum, sees how useful it is to them, pays a fee then gets access to the whole forum. If someone come by and just wants to look around a bit, that's fine too. I have no problem with paying members having a separate section where they can talk about more advanced topics and look at naked girls (or whatever you guys do ). If I want to participate, I'll pony up. If I'm happy with the "lowly" free sections, then that should be fine too.

Ok, I'm replying out of order but...I didn't say people were definitely ignoring posts made by non-supporters. Just that I was afraid this would happen if it hadn't already started. I don't disagree that many spend a lot of time here, and that they help out many others. Now...I don't really take advantage of this, so should I feel obligated to pay for it? I mean, I've never taken apart a movement, haven't redone any CGs (pretty much, when I got a rep I either wore it as-is or it didn't get worn), etc. I haven't bought a rep since the new forum, and wasn't asked for donations on the old (who knows if I would have donated then, as I did use the info available to try to find a decent rep). I actually just popped back in recently because I'd noticed some reps being sold in St. Kitts and wanted to make a post about it (seems many people already knew, but it was new to me...and yes I did search before I posted!). Did ask an opinion on a ladies watch, didn't get a lot of responses but I didn't expect to (the list of must-haves my wife ruled out almost every ladies watch out there, especially with wanting a small size and an automatic).

I will admit I'd feel more comfortable posting here than on a gen forum. Who knows, maybe I'll become more active, will need this forum more, and will become a paying member. Just don't pressure me into doing so (no, I'm not saying anyone's pressuring me to), because if I felt forced to, I'm the kind of person who'd just leave instead (just ask the Rolex dealer in Tortola, I started to get upset so I just left instead of arguing; cost him a sale).

[AllergyDoc]

I had composed a PM to Doc, ... but I deleted the PM ...

I had a post going, but deleted it, with links to posts where people were being talked down to/called out/and sometimes flat out flamed for protesting about something, or whatever, but weren't supporters. I deleted it because it would only have started a round of "yabuts." "Yabut he said this..." "Yabut he's a poser..." "Yabut he insulted Lani, or whomever..." It wouldn't have served a purpose.

My question was simply, is it free or not? KB answered my question clearly and said it isn't.

I never said the board wasn't worth supporting. I think it is and have paid up.

I never said the admin/mods don't serve faithfully, without reward. I would never try to fill their shoes.

In fact, I never criticized any individual at all.

Now Josetann has an entire thread devoted to his honest statement of where he's at now, and his thoughts on the topic. He essentially gets flamed.

[panerai153]

This subject has been hashed out up, down and sideways. those who contribute will continue to do so, those who don't,won't. It's just like every organization I have ever been affiliated with, about 10% or less of the members do ALL the work, for that they also get 100% of the criticism if things go wrong, but Damn little credit if everything goes well.

My feelings about this forum are: If you come on the forum, read, research, ask questions, and from that avoid falling for a scam watch on a scammer site, and thus save several hundred dollars , is that not worth the price of admission? If you read the reviews here, and decide that based on a review, you will not buy a particular watch, is that not worth the price of admission? If you have a source for selling your surplus watches, or the one that "you just had to have" only to find out that when you received it, it just didn't speak to you, is that not worth the price of admission.Personally, I believe these are all valid reasons to become a paying, contributing member. Now, if you are just superficially curious about Reps, and you are just making a one time visit to get a tiny smattering of knowledge, I wouldn't expect you to have to pay.I'm sure some folks find this and other rep forums, lurk for a while and either find what they are looking for "Who has the perfect Submariner" or realize that this isn't the place for them, and move on. To those, I wish them Godspeed and hope you find what you are seeking. But for those who are here to stay, participation comes with a price.

I have pretty much opersated with this addage my whole adult life, "nothing worth having is free"

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

[Josetann]

This subject has been hashed out up, down and sideways. those who contribute will continue to do so, those who don't,won't. It's just like every organization I have ever been affiliated with, about 10% or less of the members do ALL the work, for that they also get 100% of the criticism if things go wrong, but Damn little credit if everything goes well.

My feelings about this forum are: If you come on the forum, read, research, ask questions, and from that avoid falling for a scam watch on a scammer site, and thus save several hundred dollars , is that not worth the price of admission? If you read the reviews here, and decide that based on a review, you will not buy a particular watch, is that not worth the price of admission? If you have a source for selling your surplus watches, or the one that "you just had to have" only to find out that when you received it, it just didn't speak to you, is that not worth the price of admission.Personally, I believe these are all valid reasons to become a paying, contributing member. Now, if you are just superficially curious about Reps, and you are just making a one time visit to get a tiny smattering of knowledge, I wouldn't expect you to have to pay.I'm sure some folks find this and other rep forums, lurk for a while and either find what they are looking for "Who has the perfect Submariner" or realize that this isn't the place for them, and move on. To those, I wish them Godspeed and hope you find what you are seeking. But for those who are here to stay, participation comes with a price.

I have pretty much opersated with this addage my whole adult life, "nothing worth having is free"

Just my dos centavos

Arthur

I definitely see your point and agree. However, should you feel pressured to join? Is donating $30/yr enough, or will you be made to feel guilty for "only" donating $30 when you saved hundreds? If so, then by that logic I need to go make a huge donation to a particular forum that really helped us out this year, so much so that it'll make us go broke (in essence, it's a site that helped my wife find extra work). I'd probably actually pay for that particular forum, except that it's a Delphi forum and the one running the forum would get nada (the company hosting the forum would get all the $$$).