With reps being so good today...why buy a gen for thousands more?

[WatchnRoll]

Hello watchnroll i would keep the gen you may regret it later, and keep the rep dsdw i got mine from trusty and i have used it swimming with no problems trusty also have it rated a 50m if im not mistaken so it should be ok for a swimming pool of cause all wateresistant watches have to be checked regular and somethimes have rubber seals replaced, i find that most good quality reps are water resistant to a certain degree you can take your rep to watch repair shop and have it tested/sealed find a replica friendly repair shop!

Thanks man! I appreciate that post. I also agree...I am loving the gen Deep Sea but I think the rep is so close...it's the lack of perfection but so close that gets me frustrated sometimes but I need to remember i'm just some overly critical person with OCD and 99% of the people out there don't give a crap or know about watches and with the Rolex....even if it was real most would think it's fake just because it's Rolex....

I'm keeping the Gen SD. Now I'm just debating whether to send it to the AD for service to Rolex for $550 or the local service guy here for $250....i'm leaning towards Rolex

[WatchnRoll]

Well, let me just make your day.

I have a water tester (see the pinned article) and I test all my reps (see archives - I have more than 100). All the good ones water test just fine, and I have actually been scuba diving with some of the best ones.

Unless you got one that is defective, it will certainly perform just fine in a swimming pool.

Bill

I'm going to have my local rep friendly guy do it for me tomorrow...thanks

[Trevor52]

MB - I agree with you on the frankens. I think that it must be the passion of doing it and the fun that comes with it because you cant justify the costs etc. Or having a 80% gen watch with fake parts. Still is fake. Especially used gens that cost only slightly more. I have done just about everything with this hobby. I have purchased Gen's at the AD. I have purchased from Jomashop and I have purchased used. I figure I have spent around $15,000 USD on reps. Yes that is not a typo and I bet if we all told the truth I am not even remotely in the stratosphere on this forum in what I have dropped on reps.

U

[Toadtorrent]

yup, the gen feels different emotionally. i have three gen Omegas and a one rep Omega. It just feels different.

It's funny. I was thinking that for heirloom purposes or marking significant events nothing beats a gen. THEN...I'm sitting surfing for pocket watch movements and thinking of embarking on a franken-project and the wife sees the history of the movement I'm thinking of using, and the craft behind the project and is thinking this even with rep parts, would make a truly interesting heirloom type of piece because of the labour involved and the story of the quest for building...so reps, in some forms with projects, can even have as much if not more emotional significance than a gen.

I know there are a few other stories like this with franken-tona's and what not...

I have emotionally significant gens...and nothing can replace those...but now, there are emotionally significant reps and those too can feel different.

[thogaa]

Why wont it

bottom of a pool no problems

+1

[drobbins]

My gens don't make me feel emotionally different from my reps unless its because they have some special significance. My great grandfather's pocket watch has special meaning. I also have a watch once owned by Bing Crosby. I wear it every Christmas. There are reps that feel chintzy and those with no discernable difference to me from their gen counterparts. Reps make me feel less guilty because they cost less to buy than my gens cost to service. I think most of us just really love watches. They are tiny intricate machines that tell time, a commodity that isn't all that hard to come by. We can get the time from our phones, computers or off the wall. My fascination with watches is somewhat pivate. They are usually hidden by my shirtsleaves. My attraction is somewhat inexplicable to me and I don't flaunt it. Unless I'm mistaken, watch lovers are rare. There aren't too many of us. Most people know litte about watches and own only one or two. The Fakemaster nailed it: People don't care.

[ubiquitous]

My frankens all have more sentimental value to me than any of my gens, past or present. This is mostly because I build them myself, my own two hands and thus I interact with them far more than I would had I just purchased at the AD.

Those that don't understand, probably never will, nor does it really matter to me. I build my watches for me. Much like people who spend a fortune on building cars, or collecting baseball cards or whatever, a hobby is what you make of it.

[drobbins]

That makes perfect sense to me. Years ago my father made a wood carving of a wolf's head. It took him many hours to finish and in the end, most people mistook it for an ass' head. Nevertheless, he was our father and over the passing years it has become a treasured heirloom. I'm so new to this hobby, I have yet to attempt a mod but I am about to replace a dssd bezel insert (lost pearl) and, I can see it becoming s favored watch after a certain amount of love/hate sturm and drang ... I'm thinking about trying to enhance the numbers and tics on the old bezel insert(for practice). If I l like the way it looks I might try it on the new bezel insert ... or maybe not.

[woody]

perfect example that I can share is the pursuit of the SFSO for me. and I have posted some insight on the breitling forum here. how do you decide? you have a super rep, for about $300, which is darn close, get some relume by Zig, and if we are super picky, get some Chief AR, and we got a pretty close watch.

or, you can go to the gen route, currently, a used SFSO will run you around $1500-$1800. Compare that with the rep, the ratio of 4 to 1 with some mods done is not that big. then you just have to ask yourself, which would I feel better? initially, I really was leaning gen, I kept saying to myself, well, the blue dial does have a big difference between rep and gen, and I can justify that. but anyone who's got the chance to look at some photos by BT on his recent rep or gen purchase of the SFSO, will say, that the rep is one beautiful time piece. Will it feel emotionally different? maybe. but the cost of this rep is relatively "somewhat" close to gen, that if you lean either way, you come out a winner.

I think it does depend on the transformation of the rep versus the actual gen. for the SFSO, if you are getting the black dial, you should get the rep, but for the blue and white dial, why not go for the gen when the cost is getting pretty close? I hope I did not just babble 3 paragraphs away, and hope that my post did make some sense! haha

[OSRep]

Great thread and read WnR! I think most points have been covered. TBH I used to be one of those "reps? ooooo no Id never wear a rep" kinda guy, and then I became broke (just kidding).......Ive come to really admire the rep world. Ive had many gens - and tbh I could never justify the money I spent on them - so I got bored of them easily and quickly......

Buying a gen was / is simple and its always nearly perfect. Thats what makes reps so much more fun. I love the fact that you can buy a rep and then "kit it out" so to speak. Source the parts necessary to make it as perfect as possible. Which ofcourse is so much more rewarding. And ofcourse I think you rarely go over the 1K price point (generally speaking - ofcourse modding a PAM properly, for eg, will cost you quite a bit).......

Not sure how much money comes into this though. I guess if you could afford to buy gens and have 1000's of dollars sitting in a watchbox without having to worry about food for the next few months then buying gens is justifiable. DOnt forget their prices result from marketing, advertising, branding, fancy watch cases, hats / jackets / key chains etc (ofcourse quality and reliability too), so thats what youre basically paying for. There was a thread here about a member whos Gen PO had stopped working and yet his trusty UPO was ticking strong.....

Reps are cool, fun, "affordable" :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Mercury]

Reps are great, but I have had issues with them breaking and that drove me away a bit. However, I would buy a rep over a $5,000 plus gen. I can't see spending over, say $5,000 for a gen when the rep is just as good. Gens that are below that mark, like the speedy, smp and so on are well worth it. In fact, I just sold all three of my reps for a gen smp. Like everybody said though, just a different mentally, emotionally and so on.

[ubiquitous]

That makes perfect sense to me. Years ago my father made a wood carving of a wolf's head. It took him many hours to finish and in the end, most people mistook it for an ass' head. Nevertheless, he was our father and over the passing years it has become a treasured heirloom. I'm so new to this hobby, I have yet to attempt a mod but I am about to replace a dssd bezel insert (lost pearl) and, I can see it becoming s favored watch after a certain amount of love/hate sturm and drang ... I'm thinking about trying to enhance the numbers and tics on the old bezel insert(for practice). If I l like the way it looks I might try it on the new bezel insert ... or maybe not.

Exactly, drobbins. Having that personal interaction with a project build forms an emotional/sentimental bond. I don't expect anyone else to understand what that means to me personally, as it's difficult for others to appreciate the amount of work or time invested (not to mention money). But for those who are also of the same mind set, they are likely to understand better than anyone else

It's not always about the money...

[hiker01]

My frankens all have more sentimental value to me than any of my gens, past or present. This is mostly because I build them myself, my own two hands and thus I interact with them far more than I would had I just purchased at the AD.

Those that don't understand, probably never will, nor does it really matter to me. I build my watches for me. Much like people who spend a fortune on building cars, or collecting baseball cards or whatever, a hobby is what you make of it.

Amen to that....ubi!

Emotional attachment?????.......insecurities????? nahhhhhh! They're just metal you wear around your wrist! Some with leather on them.....some with rubbers!

I have both and I don't feel any different wearing either! What the REPs allow me is to own those GEN pieces that you can't find in the market anymore or if you do, it's way beyond what you could afford! Let's be honest, where can you find a GEN PAM202a in circulation? A PAM207a, or a Paul Newman Daytona...or a PAM036? If you do, can you afford it? I can't! This is where this hobby of ours fill my niche!

Great post!

[aeromatic]

Amen to that....ubi!

Emotional attachment?????.......insecurities????? nahhhhhh! They're just metal you wear around your wrist! Some with leather on them.....some with rubbers!

I have both and I don't feel any different wearing either! What the REPs allow me is to own those GEN pieces that you can't find in the market anymore or if you do, it's way beyond what you could afford! Let's be honest, where can you find a GEN PAM202a in circulation? A PAM207a, or a Paul Newman Daytona...or a PAM036? If you do, can you afford it? I can't! This is where this hobby of ours fill my niche!

Great post!

I couldent have put is better well said!!!!

[jj69]

I asked myself the same question a few years back when I first discovered quality reps and I've only bought one "luxury" gen since then. Now, the only gens I would consider are those that cannot be repped to my satisfaction. To me, that means an El Primero, a Patek, and not much else. For the most part, I'd much rather have ten $300 reps than one $3,000 gen.

One point I don't think anyone has raised regarding why one might still buy a gen is because certain gens hold their value, and often appreciate in value. Rolex is the best example. If you buy a popular model like a basic sub today, it will likely be worth 90% or more of what you paid for it 5 or 10 years from now. Between inflation and Rolex's regular price increases, you do not stand to lose much money if you have to sell the watch, as long as you don't destroy it. In other words, some gens are a pretty good long term investment.

[freddy333]

The OP's point (a valid 1) has been debated for some time & in many forums (including the gen forums).

The real question, as I see it, is whether Rolex (& other high end watch houses) will even be in business 10 years from now because of the increasing accuracy/quality of reps & ever-increasing retail pricing of the gens (without a concomitant increase in quality or performance). There are, of course, differences between the best rep/franken & its gen counterpart (fit & finish, quality of materials, advanced technology, resale value, etc, all of which tilt favor into the gen column). However, while civilians (non-WIS types) used to laugh at people who bought a rep watch (worth $25) for $200+, more & more, it is becoming something of a laughable offense to buy a gen watch (worth $400) for $10k. At some point, the majority of mid-range watch buyers who, previously, have been able to rationalize the high cost of gens due to the finish, technology & resale value, will come to find that the differences in finish are minimal (though still apparent), the technology debatable & resale value no longer sufficient to merit paying an order of magnitude over the actual value just to get into the game.

As much as I hate to say it, I fear we may be shooting ourselves in the foot. High quality rep watches may ultimately do to the gen watch makers what digitizing music (which made making quality copies easy) is doing to the record industry. Not sure of the answer, but I am sure that Rolex is thinking along the same lines.

[ubiquitous]

I am not sure that high end genuine watches will ever go away. Rather, with high quality reps, those manufacturers will be forced to evolve, producing items that can't be easily, or economically re-produced. It's a game of cat and mouse; those that produce the high end, high ticket items will always be a few steps ahead. Plus, they have another angle that the rep market can't compete with; precious metal cases, precious stone settings, etc. Basically the jewelry pieces with true intrinsic value.

Besides, some folks would never consider a replica, and there are many, many out there with this mindset along with some deep pockets. As long as there's a market for it, there will be product. I don't think the high end segment has much to worry about with regards to going extinct.

[maxman]

NEED new insert on your DSSD, after you have done that..... Bob`s your uncle!

Dude you've changed, how's life treating ya?

[By-Tor]

My fascination with watches is somewhat private. They are usually hidden by my shirtsleaves. My attraction is somewhat inexplicable to me and I don't flaunt it.

That's exactly how I feel too. I don't care at all whether people think I'm wearing gen or rep. It's completely meaningless. I never really understood the whole "fear of getting called out" thing. From me, no one has ever asked.

I buy my watches for my own enjoyement... and because it's great to share pictures and stories about them with other watch enthusiasts. It's fun! I don't see much difference between gens and reps, either. But I guess when you have been into reps for so long you learn so much about the models that all those small flaws start to bother you. I have bought gens only because of that... I love to see the details: Perfect dial color, perfect dial print, datefont, etc.

It's probably like a guitarist who loves to hear the sound from his expensive Fender. I doubt the spectators would ever notice if he played those songs with a cheaper guitar instead.

[HauteHippie]

I am not sure that high end genuine watches will ever go away. Rather, with high quality reps, those manufacturers will be forced to evolve, producing items that can't be easily, or economically re-produced. It's a game of cat and mouse; those that produce the high end, high ticket items will always be a few steps ahead. Plus, they have another angle that the rep market can't compete with; precious metal cases, precious stone settings, etc. Basically the jewelry pieces with true intrinsic value.

Besides, some folks would never consider a replica, and there are many, many out there with this mindset along with some deep pockets. As long as there's a market for it, there will be product. I don't think the high end segment has much to worry about with regards to going extinct.

+1

[Mercury]

I am not sure that high end genuine watches will ever go away. Rather, with high quality reps, those manufacturers will be forced to evolve, producing items that can't be easily, or economically re-produced. It's a game of cat and mouse; those that produce the high end, high ticket items will always be a few steps ahead. Plus, they have another angle that the rep market can't compete with; precious metal cases, precious stone settings, etc. Basically the jewelry pieces with true intrinsic value.

Besides, some folks would never consider a replica, and there are many, many out there with this mindset along with some deep pockets. As long as there's a market for it, there will be product. I don't think the high end segment has much to worry about with regards to going extinct.

The same can be said for anything high priced item. Why are Gucci still around when we can buy fakes. I mean who would spend $5k for a bag, but we do. Why would you want an Aston when Ford makes the RS Focus. There is always going to be a demand for high end items because we, as humans, love that feeling of being wealthy or high class. Rolex, Omega, whichever company you want, will find ways to make them harder and harder to rep.

I would be more afraid of the cell phone industry taking over the watch business because young people aren't buying, even middle class watches like Bulova, Seiko and so on anymore.

[jj69]

Freddy, I must respectfully disagree with you here. I think you're way off target on this. The demand for gen luxury watches will never go away. The manufacturers' target customer is not the WIS collectors, and it's not the middle class worker who is saving up for one "nice watch" that he's going to wear for the rest of his life. Sure, they have those customers, but their real target is the wealthy customer with more money than sense who simply wants an expensive luxury item to put on his wrist and show it off. Such customers desire luxury goods primarily (and in many cases only) because they are expensive. If they were priced lower (i.e. what they're really worth), they would have no interest in them whatsoever. The worst thing Rolex, or Hublot, or AP could do is lower their prices.

Frankly, the cell phone is a bigger threat to the luxury watch market than the rep industry. These days everyone has an atomic clock in their pocket, so fewer and fewer men are wearing watches at all. It was hard enough to convince people they should buy a $5,000 item that was functional and useful, so imagine how hard it must be now to convince people to buy a $5,000 item that serves almost no practical purpose. It's a good thing there are so many affluent customers out there seeking luxury goods!

As much as I hate to say it, I fear we may be shooting ourselves in the foot. High quality rep watches may ultimately do to the gen watch makers what digitizing music (which made making quality copies easy) is doing to the record industry. Not sure of the answer, but I am sure that Rolex is thinking along the same lines.

[jj69]

There is some truth to this. We already see Hublot and other makers smartening up and moving away from ETA movements with standard subdial spacing to make it harder to rep them. However, the consumer who would even consider buying a rep, regardless of how good the rep is, is just not their target customer base. The real reason these makers are making their models harder to rep is not because they fear they're losing significant sales. I imagine the more likely reason is to prevent their customers from being defrauded by sellers trying to pass off reps as gens. As we've all seen, this is a common practice on eBay, and this is a much higher concern to the gen makers than than the odd lost sale to riff-raff rep collectors like us.

I am not sure that high end genuine watches will ever go away. Rather, with high quality reps, those manufacturers will be forced to evolve, producing items that can't be easily, or economically re-produced. It's a game of cat and mouse; those that produce the high end, high ticket items will always be a few steps ahead.

Edited February 24, 2010 by jj69