Moon Phase

[gran]

So are there any true moon phase complications in replicas out there or not?

What I would like the know is the following:

1. How many replicas described as having a moon phase actually have not only a moon but also a smiling sun on that revolving moon fase indicator (replies with pictures would be great)

2. How many replicas actually have two moons (no sun that is) on their revolving moon phase indicator? (pictures of these would be even better)

3. Are there any replicas with something close to a true moon phase? (For instance this is not good enough: ST1903 has 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3. 24 h register at 6 (non chrono again), The 24h indicator is directly synchronized with main hour hand, either used as 24h indicator or with the hand replaced by a day/night disk as a faux moon phase - day night indicator)

I have read that the ST1908: 4 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, date at 12, real moon phase

is it a real moon phase?

Happy Timekeeping

Gran:drinks:

[gran]

http://www.prestiget...19-Movement.jpg

Picture of a true moonphase movement

Moonphase set inside the seconds sub-dial. The Moonphase differs from some Moonphase which advance once a day - this Moonphase is actually connected to the seconds hand & continuously advances to the tune of a full revolution per lunar cycle.

Obviously we can not expect anything close to the accuracy in this Lange but again my questions are what is the best approximation available in replicas? and how many replicas are being adverted as moon phase but actually has both a sun and a moon on the moonphase dial? and other variants?

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gran

[gran]

There is lots of claims that the SEA-GULL M199s moon-phase chronograph is a true moon phase watch...and this is likely sporting the same movement as in some replicas (or at least another version of the same VENUS 175 based SeaGull movement)...I wonder is it really a true moonphase? ..as it is the closest one to the real-deal I have seen but details of the actual function of this moon-phase is still unclear

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gran

[narikaa]

Seen a few with a 'celestial' wheel (as opposed to the smiley sun) and revs at once per 31(day) increments

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[gran]

Seen a few with a 'celestial' wheel (as opposed to the smiley sun) and revs at once per 31(day) increments

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This is very very interesting Reg Could you post some more information and details about these? I would like to know more

Happy Timekeeping

Gunnar

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gran

[narikaa]

Instructions to customer at time copy / pasted (gives idea of how it functions:

Moon phase ....if you pull the crown to the first position this can then set the date....but wont advance the moon phase

So you get the moonphase aligned by pulling the crown to the s3econd position and manually advancing the date 24hours at a time until the moonphase is where you want it (slow and laborious Im afraid)...once you've don't that set the date as above.

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[gran]

Instructions to customer at time copy / pasted (gives idea of how it functions:

.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm......interesting indeed..... It seems the moonphase application is connected to the date...if so this is a great improvement over the often used 24hour connection (12h/24h indicator connection = actually a day/night indicator = faux moonphase)

need more details....what is the movement used here?

If it is this one its not much of an improvement :

Movement: Asia Automatic 21Jewel Movement with Calender and Power Reserve Functions Functions: Hours, Minutes, Seconds ( 4.00 subdial) Date (8.00 subdial), Sun-Moon Phase, and Power Reserve indicator ( 10.00 Indicator Dial)

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gran

[ghost]

If that patek has a pseudo (?seagull) lemania with a working moonphase, i'll be snapping one up pronto!

[gran]

M308S a ST2528 Sea-Gull movement claimed to have moonphase....the other one is the ST1908..but details still unclear

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gran

[gran]

ST1908:

The queen. Date register at 12, real moon phase at 6????????can we be sure it is a genuine moonphase???? and is the ST1908 in replicas??

Link to PDF with details

http://www.tjseagull.com/wkt/19/1908w.pdf

Only Chinese lettering in this one

http://www.tjseagull.com/s/1908s.pdf

[gran]

If that patek has a pseudo (?seagull) lemania with a working moonphase, i'll be snapping one up pronto!

Venus, venus, venus......no replicas with "lemania" are around. Lemania is a mistake that should have been erradicated years ago but is unfortunately still used by some vendors. its a modified VENUS 175 movement

[dluddy]

Good discussion Gran. I've wondered the same and expect that the Seagull is the only close rep option available to date.

[slickdick]

Define true moonphase.

There are various simple (like deriving from the day of week gear) mechanical solution to show the moonphase, however the margin of error varies from like 1/2 a day a month to one day in 122 years like the mechanism used by IWC.

The watch pictured does not have the smiley sun/moon. However most likely it is a simple mechanism.

[gran]

Define true moonphase.

There are various simple (like deriving from the day of week gear) mechanical solution to show the moonphase, however the margin of error varies from like 1/2 a day a month to one day in 122 years like the mechanism used by IWC.

The watch pictured does not have the smiley sun/moon. However most likely it is a simple mechanism.

What definition would you be happy with slickdick?

Yes! how do we define "true moonphase" this is the question

Some obviously define it extremely loosely..way too loosely if you aske me. I welcome various examples to be posted by you and others in this thread:animal_rooster:

Some define it to be without a smiling sun...exact length of cycle less important

Horologists define it to actually follow the lunar cycle

In replicas i guesss we would like to define it as one that approximates the lunar cycle....at least not just a day\night indicator masqueraded as a moonphase (=faux)

[gran]

Good discussion Gran. I've wondered the same and expect that the Seagull is the only close rep option available to date.

Yes and thanks dluddy

and we need some informed opinion on how close...+\- 2-5 days or more???

and we need to know if the better such movements are actually in our replicas

[Pugwash]

A moon-phase should be a 29.5 day cycle or it's just a fancy month indicator.

[TeeJay]

When I was at school, one of my friends had a watch which was a digital moonphase. Absolutely fantastic watch. Polished SS case, with a gold-colored fixed bezel, and a really thick honey-tan strap. I never got one, and I don't think they're available any more, but that really was the business

[gran]

A moon-phase should be a 29.5 day cycle or it's just a fancy month indicator.

actually 29.5 a day becomes unaccurate with time

seriously 29,5 days is good enough for me for now...and do any replicas follow the lunar cycle of 29.5 days????

[mbjoer]

Not sure I understand the question as there seems to be quite a few reps out there with a Seagull (often referred to as Lemania or Venus) moonphase movement.

I have a Zenith El Primero chrono like this one:http://www.perfect-hour.com/zn10002-primero-chronomaster-ssle-white-venus-chrono-p-4559.html

It seems to keep track pretty well, although I have not managed to keep it going for a full month to test the accuracy. It has a button on the side to set the moonphase so none of the problems mentioned with the PP Nautilus above. But as the rest of the movement keeps time pretty well I have no reason to suspect that the moonphase would not do so as well.

[gran]

Not sure I understand the question as there seems to be quite a few reps out there with a Seagull (often referred to as Lemania or Venus) moonphase movement.

I have a Zenith El Primero chrono like this one:http://www.perfect-hour.com/zn10002-primero-chronomaster-ssle-white-venus-chrono-p-4559.html

It seems to keep track pretty well, although I have not managed to keep it going for a full month to test the accuracy. It has a button on the side to set the moonphase so none of the problems mentioned with the PP Nautilus above. But as the rest of the movement keeps time pretty well I have no reason to suspect that the moonphase would not do so as well.

I am glad you are happy mbjoer, nothing is better than that you are satisfied with the watch and in ligth of that and your physical proof of purchase I can understand that you do not understand the questions(s). I would be very happy to learn how many days your watch takes to complete one cycle.

but I will try to make my convoluted questions clearer:

Q1. Establish how many different movements in replicas can be considered to be true moonphases (i.e. approximately 29.5 days per cycle)

Q2. establish how many are actually faux (and the different types of those ie 31 day cycles = kinda OK but still faux, 24h cycles = actually day/night indicator) but presently being presented as a moonphase watch

a side effect of such knowledge is to further inform people what they are actually being offered....enlighten some about what a moonphase really is.....and also so that this info is carried over to the descriptions of watches offered

[slickdick]

actually 29.5 a day becomes unaccurate with time

seriously 29,5 days is good enough for me for now...and do any replicas follow the lunar cycle of 29.5 days????

Ill settle for 29,5 too.

But you are right, it is plain wrong to describe a day/night indocator as moonphase.

On the majority of the resp tho , despite how its being presented/described shows from the pics wheter it is the common day night, there is always the sun beams in the display.

[alligoat]

Special variants of the Swiss 7750 have moon phases and I have a Jean Marcel with the 7751 movement with the moonphase at the 6 o'clock subdial. I realize these aren't reps, but they are the 29.5 day moon phase watches.

http://www.chronomaddox.com/valjoux_7750_engine.html

Now I have seen a rep 7751 movement in a Breitling Datora, but the chinese referred to it as a 7750. No moon phase, however.

Here's the setting instructions for a Zeno 7751

http://www.zenowatchbasel.com/images/service/InsVal7751Eng.pdf

These watches are the closest thing to the old 'triple date' Valjoux 72C, the next generation with an automatic movement.

I did find some rep Longines w/ the 7751 moon phase

http://www.tswisswatch.com/swiss_longines_replica_watch.html

But of course, I don't know the seller!

[slickdick]

Joshua also sells the 7751 based longines

Also has the silberstein

[gran]

Joshua also sells the 7751 based longines

Also has the silberstein

Super input Slickdick and alligoat

So can we probably now finaly say that the 7751 is a true 29.5 day moonphase complication also found in replicas. Agreed?

But we have still have to pin down the facts:

Guess this is an ASIAN 7751?

What about the SEA-GULL and other Chinese complications found in replicas...are they true and tested (29.5 day cycle) moon-phases? Would be greatful if any member has tested this and divulge us with the details.

Anyone that has bought that Longines and van inform us?

I want to know more

Edited February 9, 2010 by Gran

[gran]

The 7751 moonphase (Swiss VALJOUX calibre 7751 = now ETA 7751)