Grandpa88 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I picked up a GRAIL Comex 1665 from a member, and LOVING the watch. Would like to get papers to go with it just to complete the experience. Does anyone know whether anyone offers this service? Thanks, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 If your talking about "intent" to "defraud" with counterfeit documentation.. we have no idea what your talking about.. We are "hobbyist" and work on watches.. not documents.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 watch looks great a little info about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 hard to find. Genuine are EXPENSIVE!! Never saw Rep papers, I suppose they exist,along with the fake box, hang tags, booklets to go along with the replica Rolex 1665's, 1680's etc. that some folks are trying to pass off as genuine on Ebay. If the above is your intent, sir, I can assure you there are members of the genuine forums who are trolling the pages of Ebay as we speak reporting every suspicious Rolex to Ebay. Unfortunately, in their overzealous quest, they sometimes trash a genuine watch as well. The genuines get relisted with an explanation, the replicas usually don't. If your intent is noble and aboveboard, questing to assemble a complete set of papers, "GeeGaws" and Boxes for your own self gratification, and the possible resale on the forum at some future date, good luck. Nothing wrong with that concept. I have assembled Boxes hang tags, Anchors and booklets in the past as well. Lots of fun, but increasingly expensive, especially for the alleged "Genuine" Rolex stuff.On some of the genuine sales forums, I have seen Submariner booklets from the early 1970,s sell for almost twice what a genuine White letter 1680 cost me in 1972!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 While papers obviously can be used to defraud prospective victims, I doubt someone who comes out and asks on the forum has any such intentions. I can certainly see the attraction for someone who wants to have a complete collection of stuff associated with a watch, not to mention the benefit to those who pass their reps off as genuine to friends and acquaintances. Which I'm sure easily accounts for most of the silent majority of the membership here. Hell, I'd like a complete set of papers for any one of my watches myself, simply because I've never actually seen those items and it'd be cool to make their acquaintance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa88 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 hard to find. Genuine are EXPENSIVE!! Never saw Rep papers, I suppose they exist,along with the fake box, hang tags, booklets to go along with the replica Rolex 1665's, 1680's etc. that some folks are trying to pass off as genuine on Ebay. If the above is your intent, sir, I can assure you there are members of the genuine forums who are trolling the pages of Ebay as we speak reporting every suspicious Rolex to Ebay. Unfortunately, in their overzealous quest, they sometimes trash a genuine watch as well. The genuines get relisted with an explanation, the replicas usually don't. If your intent is noble and aboveboard, questing to assemble a complete set of papers, "GeeGaws" and Boxes for your own self gratification, and the possible resale on the forum at some future date, good luck. Nothing wrong with that concept. I have assembled Boxes hang tags, Anchors and booklets in the past as well. Lots of fun, but increasingly expensive, especially for the alleged "Genuine" Rolex stuff.On some of the genuine sales forums, I have seen Submariner booklets from the early 1970,s sell for almost twice what a genuine White letter 1680 cost me in 1972!! Thank you all for your comments. I assure you my intentions are noble, as I intend for this to stay in my collection. Some specs for your interest: [] MBW case - old version which takes gen parts [] ETA movement [] Gen T39 superdome [] Gen vintage crown and tube [] Gen 93150 bracelet with 580 endlinks [] Gen springbars [] NDT dial with vintage lume (this is awesome!) [] Gen vintage Tudor hands [] Modded CG [] Caseback paint removed and edges smoothed [] Bezelinsert aged [] Recessed insert The sourcing of papers is an attempt, perhaps foolhardy, to complete the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 This is an interesting discussion for me.. As I like to take pics with gen as well as faux boxes..and tags.. but to have paper that are not gen does not appeal to me.. this brings an interesting question to mind... (for me) I use my gen papers from an Explorer if I do take pics.. but to create an illusion for myself with documentation.. I don't find the need for it.. as the box and tags are enough.. I do collect vintage Rolex boxes and anchors, but I wouldn't bother going out of my way to secure rep. papers.. but different strokes.. AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Yes very interesting and very much a personal choice, I don't believe anyone can infer there is any intention to defraud per se. Personally I feel that papers only have one purpose whatever the intent, to fool people into thinking the watch is gen, but then is that not what a rep does anyway? Are rep papers any more intrinsically wrong than rep watches themselves? For me the answer is yes though I cannot understand quite why. Maybe it is because it is the watch itself that interests me (and the reason why all the reps I currently own are frankens or modified to a greater or lesser extent), papers add nothing to the experience for me. I am happy to admit to family and friends that my watches are reps, would I be so happy to admit this if I was showing them fake papers at the same time? I know it doesn't make any sense but fake papers do make me feel a little uneasy, for me it is a step too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thank you all for your comments. I assure you my intentions are noble, as I intend for this to stay in my collection. Some specs for your interest: [] MBW case - old version which takes gen parts [] ETA movement [] Gen T39 superdome [] Gen vintage crown and tube [] Gen 93150 bracelet with 580 endlinks [] Gen springbars [] NDT dial with vintage lume (this is awesome!) [] Gen vintage Tudor hands [] Modded CG [] Caseback paint removed and edges smoothed [] Bezelinsert aged [] Recessed insert The sourcing of papers is an attempt, perhaps foolhardy, to complete the experience. Yours sounds like a very nice example of a modded MBW. photos would be nice . As to the papers, I did not attempt to infer that you were trying to defraud, just pointing out the problems. As to the papers, I haven't ever seen sets complete with papers, ever. By this I mean guarantee papers or the Rolex "punched" papers. What are being sold as genuine appear on ebay and the genuine forums on a regular basis, but as I said before the prices are ridiculous. I have a genuine Tudor snowflake, I bought the watch without papers, box, etc. I have been assembling all the bits and pieces over time, Box, anchor, hang tag, etc. I saw two sets of genuine Tudor "open" guarantee papers on Ebay over the past few weeks. unfortunately for me, they both closed at well over 200 USD each! This is for Tudor papers. Genuine Rolex routinely go for 2-3 times that price. Go over to the vintage rolex market, there is a seller there, "paperman' who sells booklets, brochures, and other paperwork. they will not allow the sale of guarantee papers on the forum, but I bet he has them. only problem, the prices are crazy. For your SD, the calendar card for the correct year (early 70's) would be probably 200-300 Euros! Sub/SD booklet 300 Euros. no telling what he would want for a guarantee paper, especially if it was open. Good luck on your quest. If you find a source, let the forum know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I use my gen papers from an Explorer if I do take pics.. but to create an illusion for myself with documentation.. I don't find the need for it.. as the box and tags are enough.. To be honest Lani...given space constraints for me living in the heart of a big city, I'm not into the boxes...but for a Comex specifically, I think it would be quite fun to CREATE faux papers because of the history of how these watches were used. There were a couple of interesting examples I've seen in auction because of the test results, Comex work history records, dive records, etc, that I think would be fun to create a fantasy record of. It would be a fun project with paper aging, ink fading, etc...obviously fake because the work histories are relatively easily verifiable through Comex records I would assume, if you could ever get access to them...which might in fact be next to impossible because of the confidential nature of some of their work... The earlier Comex ones because of them being "gifted" almost as test engines for Rolex, have a different kind of paper trail which I think is far more interesting and would be fun to have a replica of, than standard box sets of items that were bought at Joe, Tom, [censored] and Harry's Rolex AD Shop. I liken it to some of the vintagizing projects where the goal is to create a piece that has battle scars from use...but in the case of the Comex watches, some of the documentation that made these interesting include photos with folks like Theo Mavrostomos and what not. It would make for fun photos I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 now THIS is a COMPLETE experience.... http://www.londonwatchcompany.com/details_476_31.html and ONLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Looking at that original, 1970 provenanced COMEX, it looks like most modders artificially age their "tritium" markers far too brown. This gen watch has more of a parchment tone to it than the golden dirt brown on the reps I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Looking at that original, 1970 provenanced COMEX, it looks like most modders artificially age their "tritium" markers far too brown. This gen watch has more of a parchment tone to it than the golden dirt brown on the reps I see. There are so many variations when I look in the auction catalogues...same as the tone of orange on the 1655...almost anything goes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fer Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 now THIS is a COMPLETE experience.... http://www.londonwatchcompany.com/details_476_31.html and ONLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hey guys, Saabin (from the old RWG1) gave me this print. You can use it to create fake papers. He created papers just for fun (for his franken DRSD). I never saw a problem with it. Whether it's unethical or not... I don't know. When someone does it with good intents... I guess not. I guess it's like having a gun and the same arguments that Americans always use: "Guns don't kill people, people do." Well anyway, I just have these and I wanted to share. Preview: attachments_2010_02_10.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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