DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Am I imagining things, or is this one of the most obvious fakes-as-genuine listings out there? Linky It's this sort of behaviour which gets us all a bad name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Am I imagining things, or is this one of the most obvious fakes-as-genuine listings out there? Linky It's this sort of behaviour which gets us all a bad name Heck... im a noob to reps and that is shocking even to me! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I know! I'm pretty new to it all myself, but just about all of the pointers were there with that one, there are gen's out there for less money... Not that I'd stoop so low as to wear a gen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 what are the tells on this then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizz Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) what are the tells on this then Haha.. the name is a typo... and its a gen? Edited February 24, 2010 by fizz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 What's wrong with this? I'm not an expert but it looks pretty good to me. I think he just mistyped in his auction title.. the watch is looking pretty good though. Any experts here that can chime in? It looks perfect.. but i'm not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf108 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Looks like a gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 what are the tells on this then Hence my question, to be honest that is a good price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 They don't mention the year.. they should honestly give more details in the description.. but the photos look pretty damn good. They only mention that this model was used by the Israeli Airforce in the 70s..... for it's new and perfect condition i'd agree with andy and also say it's a good price for the watch... Although.. hopefully an omega expert can chime in and tell us for sure... I did some image searching for gens and found this: watch in question: Only thing i would possibly see is that the crown on the GEN picture looks shorter than the crown on the ebay watch. But it could certainly be a camera angle issue or the ebay picture might be taken with the crown in the out position.. Also the date on the gen looks a bit sunken but again.. could be camera angle combined with shadows.. Other than that.. font, bezel, case, dial, hand length, and date window border look spot on. Even the caseback looks to be exact to the gen photos.... Sorry Dickebrowne... but i wouldn't report this to ebay unless you were ABSOLUTELY sure... Looks like a good deal here... My gut would say gen.. unless of course an expert can chime in here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 The things which say fake to me about the watch are the case - it's the same as many aqua terra rep's on sale today, but different to the original. The date wheel is white, and the gens I've seen have all had black date wheels, although I do confess to not being an expert, I have looked at a number of SM300's of late as I'm going to be buying soon. It's a NOS watch, but that caseback sticker should have some discolouration after all these years. The font looks wrong on the face, too heavy. The marker above 12 doesn't go all the way to the top on a gen, and it does on this watch. Above all, I think, is buy the seller - the typo is off-putting. He's obviously not putting much care into a listing for an expensive watch. There is no description, there are no movement shots (always a cause for concern). He's had a number of these and people seem happy with them, but that's no guarantee. Most people with an Omega have never removed the back to see if it's a real Omega movement, most Omega wearers are unable to tell a fake from a gen, so that's not conclusive. Overall, it feels like a fake, but as my first post says - I could be imagining things. I'm here to learn, after all Are all the points I've noticed differences between models, am I just an old cynic? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Plaifender, you posted that whilst I was typing, so your image answers most of my points - I've been looking for a 300 for a while and had never seen a white date wheel. Also the case is very similar to your pic. It could just be that I'm an old cynic after all. No intention of a report, btw, I haven't enough experience to tell for certain, which was kind of why I posted here. Anyway, selling gen's, it's going to get Ebay a bad name!Oh, and there is a definite difference in the winder on those shots - was that a model year difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 The things which say fake to me about the watch are the case - it's the same as many aqua terra rep's on sale today, but different to the original. The date wheel is white, and the gens I've seen have all had black date wheels, although I do confess to not being an expert, I have looked at a number of SM300's of late as I'm going to be buying soon. It's a NOS watch, but that caseback sticker should have some discolouration after all these years. The font looks wrong on the face, too heavy. The marker above 12 doesn't go all the way to the top on a gen, and it does on this watch. Above all, I think, is buy the seller - the typo is off-putting. He's obviously not putting much care into a listing for an expensive watch. There is no description, there are no movement shots (always a cause for concern). He's had a number of these and people seem happy with them, but that's no guarantee. Most people with an Omega have never removed the back to see if it's a real Omega movement, most Omega wearers are unable to tell a fake from a gen, so that's not conclusive. Overall, it feels like a fake, but as my first post says - I could be imagining things. I'm here to learn, after all Are all the points I've noticed differences between models, am I just an old cynic? Richard In response.. to the NOS comment.. if it is in fact NOS.. it would justify the high price.. most sellers of reps try to undercut the competition and sell the rep for under what it would normally cost to get a gen. The New old stock condition of this watch would justify its price. the case back sticker doesn't cause me any concern since he never says he didn't replace the sticker. If he's a serious seller and really trying to preserve the watch, the original sticker would probably be long gone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 There is definitely a white date wheel on many of the vintage 300's. The position of the date window and sizing of the indices is spot on. The fact that the watch is so pristine makes the pricing at 2500.00 appropriate as well. I wish that if it is a fake, our dealers offered this model. On the currently available 300 with date window, the window position and the indices are way off the gen. All and all this looks like a gen to me. I'd say...ask Ubi his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dick have you ever seen a brand new in the box SM 300 with a date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 There is no description, there are no movement shots (always a cause for concern). He's had a number of these and people seem happy with them, but that's no guarantee. Most people with an Omega have never removed the back to see if it's a real Omega movement, most Omega wearers are unable to tell a fake from a gen, so that's not conclusive. We can wait for Ubiquitous to chime in.. but my gut still says gen. Caseback not being off isn't a concern for me either since 95% of all watches on ebay never have their caseback off to show the movement unless they're display back.. Like you said.. most people never take the case back off of their watch.. only freaks like us!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Looks like an example built from new parts, much like the watchco pieces. The movement inside should be an Omega 565; not a difficult movement to find, so having the caseback off is no real indication as to whether this piece is gen (I've seen a number of frankens out there with the correct movement). -Case looks fine to me. Correct case, correct inner rehaut ring. -Dial is correct. No stubbies, correct fonts, but appears to be a lumi dial (service replacement). -Hands are correct. -Crystal is correct and signed with the Omega logo in the center. -Datewheel *should* be black -Bezel is correct. Correct fonts, no odd or unusual color tones to try and mimic the luminous bezel markings. -Bracelet is fine. To compare- My genuine and original 165.024: Regarding the auction watch in question- My money is on a watchco assembled 166.024; the parts look correct to my eye, but having the white datewheel along with everything looking super crisp and new, I suspect this to be a pieced together watch. Not necessarily fake as it's comprised of genuine parts, but not 100% genuine with factory provenance either. This is my speculative opinion on this watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks Ubi .. I was going to say that the case back stampings looked laser etched to me, but what do I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 @FxrAndy, no, never have seen a new one in the box. I have to say it was the white date wheel which first set off alarm bells. I've never seen a white date wheel on a SM300, and I've looked at loads. That said, I've never seen an honest politician either, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. The intention of the thread wasn't to throw accusations (although, re-reading my opener, it may have seemed like that - I was both convinced and in a rush, it was to broaden my knowledge; I saw what I thought to be a fake, and maybe was a bit rushed in my original post. I've learnt a lot today, which is a good thing. Some of the comments support it being a franken, which isn't the same as a rep, but it's still not genuine. The seller has sold a number of these in the past and that always sits a bit lop-sided with me when it's a vintage watch. Anyhoo, always happy to learn - that's what community is all about, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks Ubi .. I was going to say that the case back stampings looked laser etched to me, but what do I know Jkay, It's interesting that you bring that up, because the caseback is the only thing that I can't verify or confirm. From the pics provided, it's not apparently clear; the shape and overall details look correct, but the seamonster and font are difficult to really say; the font style looks a bit suspect to me, but not an outright fake as far as known fake casebacks go. This example has a subtle flat top 'A', but nothing like mine (though I can only compare to my old vintage caseback). I've not seen a service replacement back, so I can't fairly comment on it's validity or whether it's legitimate. The second pic in that auction (showing the watch face down, caseback obscured by the bracelet), you can see how deep these markings are on the caseback; replica casebacks usually do not have this characteristic, so this muddies things up a bit. Everything else looks okay, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I guesss UBI would know.. This is why i love this place! Great evaluation Ubi! So the white datewheel is not correct? The gen pic i found also has white datewheel.. Found it on a forum. So i can't vouch for it's authenticity.. but isn't it a coincidence that both the GEN photo and watch in question have white date wheels? @Dickbrowne... i think that after looking at so many SM300's you're probably just skeptical of anything that looks bright and shiny.. hehe. I would never doubt that this watch could be questionable.. but calling it "the most-obvious-fake-ass-genuine watch" would be a stretch by far.. even for my novice omega eyes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 What a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickBrowne Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I guesss UBI would know.. This is why i love this place! Great evaluation Ubi! So the white datewheel is not correct? The gen pic i found also has white datewheel.. Found it on a forum. So i can't vouch for it's authenticity.. but isn't it a coincidence that both the GEN photo and watch in question have white date wheels? @Dickbrowne... i think that after looking at so many SM300's you're probably just skeptical of anything that looks bright and shiny.. hehe. I would never doubt that this watch could be questionable.. but calling it "the most-obvious-fake-ass-genuine watch" would be a stretch by far.. even for my novice omega eyes..... I guess you're right. To my mind, any SM300 really should look like it's been dragged through a hedge backwards. I so love those watches. Anybody know if anybody sells pre-battered ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hmmmm... It is absolutely possible that white datewheels could have been fitted to these models; most likely during service, I'd think. Original datewheels should be black, but who knows? There's always the chance that such a part may have come fitted new as well. No way to really account for everything that the factory does, and it's plausible that parts used were whatever was available in front of the technician assembling the watch at the time, or maybe one type was installed during a certain time frame, superceding an older style. So many possibilities, especially if you consider that such details were probably not a major concern during this era. Difficult to say; all I have is speculation regarding the datewheel color... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 To my mind, any SM300 really should look like it's been dragged through a hedge backwards. I so love those watches. Anybody know if anybody sells pre-battered ones? Usually, if I want a new watch to look as though it's seen 40 years' worth of service, I just let my wife wear it for a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 "watchco"? NEVERMIND found it. Aussie site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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